All the fire in hell is too little punishment for what we do...

[Barb]

More and more of our "reality" seems to come from the tube.

sigh...

Film is an art form, a method of delivering social commentary / criticism / approbation.

I don't want any of that shit when i go to a movie.

I want to be entertained. period.

So lose the social commentary and blow something up.

Films that "blow something up" also contain emotional manipulation. But hell, have fun anyway.

 

[uscitizen]

Film is an art form, a method of delivering social commentary / criticism / approbation.

It is also a way of programming the masses.

That too, it is a method of communication that gets lots of attention. You too can make a film that, if well made, could sway others to your point of view. If you had the talent, could you resist that?

Yes.
People need to decide for themselves, not be told what to think and how to live.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Film is an art form, a method of delivering social commentary / criticism / approbation.

I don't want any of that shit when i go to a movie.

I want to be entertained. period.

So lose the social commentary and blow something up.

Films that "blow something up" also contain emotional manipulation. But hell, have fun anyway.

the best part in that Powder movie was when he blew up.

 

[xsited1]

to the other sentient beings that share the planet with us.

I dare you to watch this video.

One has to be made of steel to hold off the tears.

...

OMG, that kid is white and has no hair! He's like Michael Jackson, and we all know how he turned out. How horrible!

 

[uscitizen]

I don't want any of that shit when i go to a movie.

I want to be entertained. period.

So lose the social commentary and blow something up.

Films that "blow something up" also contain emotional manipulation. But hell, have fun anyway.

the best part in that Powder movie was when he blew up.

He blew up? Maybe I should watch that movie.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Films that "blow something up" also contain emotional manipulation. But hell, have fun anyway.

the best part in that Powder movie was when he blew up.

He blew up? Maybe I should watch that movie.

skip to the end the whole rest of the movie was emo pap so thick as to gag you.

 

[uscitizen]

the best part in that Powder movie was when he blew up.

He blew up? Maybe I should watch that movie.

skip to the end the whole rest of the movie was emo pap so thick as to gag you.

I always figured it for a chick flick.

 

[Barb]

It is also a way of programming the masses.

That too, it is a method of communication that gets lots of attention. You too can make a film that, if well made, could sway others to your point of view. If you had the talent, could you resist that?

Yes.
People need to decide for themselves, not be told what to think and how to live.

There is a difference between persuasion and dictation. While it is good to recognize manipulation, to see what the underlying message is, the intent behind it, and if possible the history of the person conveying it, it is still you who must decide if you agree with any of it, and up to you to exercise your free will.

 

[Barb]

I don't want any of that shit when i go to a movie.

I want to be entertained. period.

So lose the social commentary and blow something up.

Films that "blow something up" also contain emotional manipulation. But hell, have fun anyway.

the best part in that Powder movie was when he blew up.

So what is your favorite "blow something up" movie?

 

[uscitizen]

That too, it is a method of communication that gets lots of attention. You too can make a film that, if well made, could sway others to your point of view. If you had the talent, could you resist that?

Yes.
People need to decide for themselves, not be told what to think and how to live.

There is a difference between persuasion and dictation. While it is good to recognize manipulation, to see what the underlying message is, the intent behind it, and if possible the history of the person conveying it, it is still you who must decide if you agree with any of it, and up to you to exercise your free will.

Yes but with most it is easier to follow the will of the tube. I am dealing in reality on this not idealism.

 

[Skull Pilot]

10 Most Awesome Movie Explosions Of All Time Ever - Film School Rejects

so hard to choose just one.

 

[Barb]

Yes.
People need to decide for themselves, not be told what to think and how to live.

There is a difference between persuasion and dictation. While it is good to recognize manipulation, to see what the underlying message is, the intent behind it, and if possible the history of the person conveying it, it is still you who must decide if you agree with any of it, and up to you to exercise your free will.

Yes but with most it is easier to follow the will of the tube. I am dealing in reality on this not idealism.

Pfft. "For most." Deal with your own reality.

 

[Barb]

10 Most Awesome Movie Explosions Of All Time Ever - Film School Rejects

so hard to choose just one.

With the possible exceptions of the ones I didn't see (Spaceballs, The Hurt Locker, Stealth, and Chain reaction) all of them contain a message, and the explosions are timed with the music for MAX reinforcement of the message. I loved V For Vendetta! Still, it is one of THEE most manipulative films in existence.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Barb
Ok, so full disclosure: Are you a carnivore? Do you eat meat? Do you eat VEAL?

Originally posted by Skull Pilot
so you're a vegan?

I managed to eliminate meat from my menu from Monday to Saturday evening. And I prefer to cook my own "special" veg food during the weekends.

But every now and then I feel a dire urge to order chinese or pizza on Saturday nights. But I always feel so bad that sometimes I end up throwing nearly half the food away.

Before you post a message calling me a hypocrite (and I am indeed to a certain extent) stop for a moment and think about this:

It's dishonesty to try to invalidate my argument just because I haven't managed to become a full vegetarian yet.

 

[José]

I will reply to the points raised by Sitarro when I get home.

 

[Barb]

Originally posted by Barb
Ok, so full disclosure: Are you a carnivore? Do you eat meat? Do you eat VEAL?

Originally posted by Skull Pilot
so you're a vegan?

I managed to eliminate meat from my menu from Monday to Saturday evening. And I prefer to cook my own "special" veg food during the weekends.

But every now and then I feel a dire urge to order chinese or pizza on Saturday nights. But I always feel so bad that sometimes I end up throwing nearly half the food away.

Before you post a message calling me a hypocrite (and I am indeed to a certain extent) stop for a moment and think about this:

It's dishonesty to try to invalidate my argument just because I didn't manage to become a full vegetarian yet.

Oddly enough, I didn't call you a hypocrite. Putting words in my mouth or intent to my words seems to be a trend today. Nor did I attempt to invalidate your "argument" (although I don't see where you made one) but to temper your statement with a little reality.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Barb
Oddly enough, I didn't call you a hypocrite. Putting words in my mouth or intent to my words seems to be a trend today. Nor did I attempt to invalidate your "argument" (although I don't see where you made one) but to temper your statement with a little reality.

Ok Barb...

You see, that's precisely why I named this thread "All the fire in Hell is too little punishment for what WE (José included) do..." and not "for what YOU hunters, slaughterhouse employees and meat eaters do..."

I exposed my argument briefly (post 17) but don't bother, it's better explained below.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Sitarro
So what do you have to say to wolves that gang up on a single deer nipping at it's legs until it is too wounded to run any longer, they then start ripping it apart starting with the area of easiest access, the asshole. The deer gets to feel all of that extended agony. How about the mountain lion that jumps onto the deers back plunging its claws into the flesh ripping it apart until it drops then suffocating the suffering prey by locking it's jaws around the windpipe......... sounds like it's man that provides the deer, which is obviously a prey animal, the least amount of suffering with the shock and quickness of a high powered bullet through the heart........ and I'm not even into hunting, hate the taste of wild game with the exception of elk steak, that is pretty damn good. The fact of the matter is, with the population of humans destroying the natural hunting ground of wolves and mountain lions, the deer population grows to the point where they die from disease or struck by vehicles....... is that a better way for them to die?

Check this out:

Originally posted by Eve
Good heart shot, so he didn't run down to the deepest ravine as they often do for a farewell joke.

By "farewell joke" she means several minutes of excruciating pain, Sitarro. And medical science says that victims of cardiac arrest can survive for up to 15 seconds.

Anyway the suffering imposed on the animal is just half of the equation. You are also violently abbreviating the life of a healthy, often young individual.

And there are several non lethal ways of keeping animal population under control.

But these are just small, unimportant asides, Sitarro. I will address the heart of your message (and eots') in my next post.

 

[JW Frogen]

I will reply to the points raised by Sitarro when I get home.

That has been my life's motto.

 

[José]

Originally posted by eots
some hypocrite... that sheds tears over Bambi meeting his destiny

It may come as a shock to you, eots, but our prehistoric ancestors you admire so much also "shed tears over Bambi meeting his destiny".

Eots mentioned the fact that hunting was part of our ancestors' life for thousands of years. But what eots probably doesn't know is that Mr. Caveman also had a troubled conscience just like so many of us today. Anthropologists all over the world have already catalogued thousands of fables created by Stone Age peoples to deal with the moral repercussions of hunting.

Bushmen in the Kalahari Desert say a prayer in front of the slain antelope asking the animal to forgive them and then introduce their saliva into the wound in order to "free its soul".

Natives from Vanuatu believe that the main goal in the life of an animal is to feed humans. They believe animals crave to become their next meal and they are in fact doing them a favor by hunting them. (I wonder how they rationalise the fact that they all desperately run for their lives at the sight of them).

African tribes, indians in the Americas, aborigines in Australia and Papua... you name it...

There are literally tens of thousands of myths, legends and rituals created by prehistoric peoples to relieve the burden of conscience that results from hunting. They are primitive attempts to rationalise the pain and premature death they impose on those creatures.

So what eots said, rather than invalidating my point, reinforces it:

While wolves and mountain lions only show empathy for their offspring, you cannot be a rational being without displaying some degree of empathy for other living creatures.

The moment we became humans, thousands of years ago in the African savannah, was the moment we started feeling compassion towards others. Empathy for other living creatures is a natural outgrowth of our ability to create abstract moral concepts such as good and evil, just and unjust etc...It's a natural outgrowth of our ability to understand rationally that life and pleasure is good while death, pain and suffering is bad for other sentient beings like us.

You cannot suppress our tendency to feel empathy any more than you can suppress our ability to walk upright because it's part of the whole rationality package we developed thousands of years ago.

Take away our ability to reason... Turn us into mountain lions, into wolves and we'll immediatelly stop feeling empathy for other creatures. That's the only way to do it.

Now, I have no problem admitting that human beings show varying degrees of empathy towards strangers and other forms of life:

You have people, like KittenKoder, who have a lot of compassion for the suffering of animals.

You have people, like eots, who have less empathy for the suffering they endure and their lives being abbreviated.

You also have people who are totally unable to feel any empathy for dying animals, strangers or even their own family members. Psychiatry calls these individuals psychopaths.

Some people have more, some people have less but only mentally ill individuals have no empathy at all for the suffering of others.

Please, notice that I'm not disagreeing with anything you said about predation and the suffering of prey animals as being part of Nature's plan for life on Earth, Sitarro. I'm simply stating:

We are not mountain lions, we are human beings and due to our rationality we cannot avoid feeling empathy everytime we see a living being enduring any kind of suffering. It's something that is hardwired into what we are.