Ag Secretary: "NO CORN FOR YOU!"

[KissMy]

I own part of an oil business. I wish the government would give me an extra 50 cents a gallon for the oil I produce. I also wish they'd put a tariff on imported oil. The media isn't nice towards my business and the President just plain wishes I'd go away, even though we've been in the business for four generations.

The oil company does get the 50 cents a gallon. The "Ethanol Subsidy" goes to the oil company in the form of blender credit & pump credit. Farmers don't own gas stations so the oil companies get all the money to mix & sell the ethanol with their gas. Oil companies benefit from the wars we fight, governments we prop up & subsidize.

Ethanol will only amount to 12% of the business anyhow. We need to get Semi Trucks converted to LNG, Hydrogen, CNG, Propane, Bio-Diesel & Dino-Diesel in order to use more domestic fuel. That one LNG conversion will allow these trucks to run on 5 different types of fuels. All those wind & solar projects will free up more Natural Gas to burn in vehicles. We don't need expensive battery cars that only go 30 miles on a charge. The Pickens Plan is way better than the Obama electric car plan.

 

[Mr. H.]

I'm cool with all that except the blender/pump credits. Any links?

The "wars" thing? Pfft. If anything, it encourages imports.

 

[KissMy]

I'm cool with all that except the blender/pump credits. Any links?

The "wars" thing? Pfft. If anything, it encourages imports.

I am all for Drill Here Drill Now. Anything that gets us off the Arabs oil is what I am for.

I find it interesting that you are in the energy business and didn't know the oil companies get the "Ethanol Subsidy" money & not the ethanol plants or farmers.

Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC) - The "Blenders' Credit"

Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC) - The "Blenders' Credit"
Commonly referred to as the "blender's credit," the Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC) was created in 2004 as part of H.R. 4520, the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004 (JOBS Bill, P.L. 108-357). VEETC provides oil companies with an economic incentive to blend ethanol with gasoline. As of January 1, 2009, the original tax credit totaling 51 cents per gallon on pure ethanol (5.1 cents per gallon for E10, and 42 cents per gallon on E85) was reduced to 45 cents per gallon. The tax credit is passed on to motorists in the form of more cost-effective fuel at the pump. VEETC is currently authorized through December 31, 2010.

 

[Mr. H.]

Thanks for that. I'll review it when this hangover subsides.

 

[jeffrockit]

It's wrong, in every sense. ethanol doesn't help the environment, in fact it uses more energy than it saves. The government knows it and has for years, going back at least to Clinton. Considering the world economy, it's just worse now:

The Looming Food Crisis

Just the preview and title, rest at link:

In wealthy nations as well as in poor ones, consumers express alarm about fast-rising food prices, and their governments are well aware that shortages can quickly translate into unrest and political crisis. Complaints today may be mild compared with those looming ahead unless governments take steps to curb policies that encourage speculation, warns economist David Dapice. Subsidies that divert corn to ethanol fuel reduce food supplies and add to price rise. Despite extreme weather events in some exporting nations, per-capita food production has climbed in recent years, he explains, adding that low interest rates encourage speculation, stockpiling and waste. Price hikes are less noticeable for wealthiest consumers whose products carry high marketing and packaging costs, but for the poor it’s a question of survival. Research and technology advances in the agriculture industry may sustain a growing population for only so long. Failure to address the needs of the poor could risk security for all. – YaleGlobal


The Looming Food Crisis

Extreme weather, economic forces of rising demand and speculation threaten global food security

David Dapice YaleGlobal , 18 February 2011

...

And it is worse for the climate
Study: Ethanol Worse for Climate Than Gasoline : NPR

and ruins small engines
Mechanics see ethanol damaging small engines - Business - Consumer news - msnbc.com

and drives up food prices
Plan B Updates - 69: Why Ethanol Production Will Drive World Food Prices Even Higher in 2008 | EPI

Other than those small items, it is a great alternative to gasoline

 

[KissMy]

If ethanol links food prices around the world more tightly with oil it will help the symbiotic trade imbalance. If the Arabs cut oil production then they are going to starve. This would happen without the need for embargo's that hurt us worse than them. Now it will hurt them worse than us. However I don't think they are linked like that.

Again People - NEWS FLASH!!! - Ethanol plants produce a co-product. It is called animal feed DDGS (Distillers Dried Grains) You take feed corn to the ethanol plants & you get back both food & fuel!!! DDGS contain all the protein that was in the corn. Protein is what builds muscle, not starch. Muscles = Hamburger. The corn starch caused methane in cattle that was released into the atmosphere. It was not making beef, hamburgers, steaks or milk. Methane gas is 15 times more powerful of a greenhouse gas than CO2. Now this starch is converted into ethanol instead of methane gas.

Bernanke's printing press is what is driving up cotton, corn, oil & metals prices. All commodities have risen big-time in price. Even your freaking water bill has gone up over the past couple of years! It's the most abundant thing on the planet.

 

[MaggieMae]

U.S. crop boom not enough to rebuild thin supplies

So... here we have "razor thin" grain inventories, prices for food are rising, and agriculture says that diverting 36% of the entire corn harvest to ethanol production isn't enough?

Despite criticism that using food for fuel was driving up prices and contributing to thin stockpiles, Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack told the conference the government had no intention of scaling back on ethanol.

"There is no reason for us to take the foot off the gas," Vilsack told the conference. "This is a great opportunity for us because we can do it all, make no mistake about it."

THE CORN NAZI HAS SPOKEN!

The urgent issue of using 40% of the corn crops for ethanol rather than food needs to be revisited soon. Food supplies all over the world are in short supply due to bad weather and poor crop yields combined with the rising demand in places like China and India. The spike in corn prices has pushed up the worldwide cost of crops like wheat and soy. Vilsack is failing to see the bigger picture here, and somebody needs to point out a few important facts he apparently chooses to ignore. There are plenty of other alternative fuel sources that can easily be developed that aren't something people want to eat.

 

[KissMy]

The urgent issue of using 40% of the corn crops for ethanol rather than food needs to be revisited soon. Food supplies all over the world are in short supply due to bad weather and poor crop yields combined with the rising demand in places like China and India. The spike in corn prices has pushed up the worldwide cost of crops like wheat and soy. Vilsack is failing to see the bigger picture here, and somebody needs to point out a few important facts he apparently chooses to ignore. There are plenty of other alternative fuel sources that can easily be developed that aren't something people want to eat.

If you think using switch grass or something else that is not used for food will not cause an even larger problem then you need your head examined!!!

Food producing crop-land & fertilizer will get used to raise switch grass. So then you will truly have less food in the world. At least with corn ethanol 100% of the corn protein is turned into DDG animal feed. Hell Taco Bell could even use it instead of the other filler they are currently in their tacos. Ethanol is only made from the corn starch. All the other feed value is still preserved & used for animal feed.

With switch grass there will be absolutely no beneficial food product produced along with the ethanol. All you will get is a bunch of industrial waste. Then we will be truly farming only for ethanol which will take as much energy to create a gallon of ethanol as that ethanol will produce. Also more energy will be consumed in the production of more farm equipment for switch grass while the now productive farm equipment will sit & rust. At least currently we are extracting ethanol from the food chain that we are currently producing & still keeping all the food value in the world food chain.

Switch-grass ethanol will be the biggest mistake this country could ever make.

BTW - If you people do not understand how creating more money drives up all commodity prices then you do not have a understanding of economics. In China & India most of the population ate rice & grains. As we send more of our money to those countries more of the population start to eat meat. It takes 10 calories worth of rice & grains to raise the meat the same population eats to replace the one calorie worth of rice & grains they were eating. So as we print money this allows China & India to increase their food consumption by 10 fold. For years now China has been out bidding the ethanol plants for corn. China also buys much of the DDG feed from the ethanol plants driving the DDG feed prices higher for the US cattle farmers.

 

[Annie]

I have empathy for the farmers, they seem to still collect massive debt, get vilified for subsidies that politicians use them for, and manage to keep breaking records in food production.

However, using land to replace fossil fuels is not sustainable and certainly not in the world populations interests.

Bring on hydrogen or some new products. Keep the government out of it.

 

[MaggieMae]

NEWS FLASH!!! - Ethanol plants produce a co-product. It is called animal feed DDGS (Distillers Dried Grains) You take feed corn to the ethanol plants & you get back both food & fuel!!!

Cattle that would have eaten the corn grain and soybean meal to supplement their diet, now eat distillers grains as that part of their balanced diet. Equal or better performance (rates of gain for beef cattle or milk yield in dairy cows) are usually reported from cows with up to 20% of their diet from distillers grains are compared with control diets.

Corn-fed beef is what makes it tough and tasteless. The price of beef could skyrocket and it wouldn't affect my pocketbook because I don't eat it anymore.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ever heard of the laws of thermodynamics? To paraphrase; There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Save your global warming bs for the uneducated.

DDGS contain all the protein that was in the corn. Protein is what builds muscle, not starch. Muscles = Hamburger.

Bernanke's printing press is what is driving up cotton, corn, oil & metals prices. All commodities have risen big-time in price.

Really? The total wipeout of the Pakistani agriculture from the flooding there, the loss of 40% of the Russian grain crop, and 10% of the EU grain crop from the drought there, the loss of the Australian Queensland wheat, sugar, and banana crops, have nothing to do with the rise in prices. The loss of 1/3 of the world's coking coal, until the mines are drained and the rails rebuilt in Queensland has nothing to do with the rise in prices. And then there is the little matter of major unrest in the one of the major oil producing areas in the world.

But none of this has anything to do with the commodity prices. It has to be Bernanke's fault.

But of course. Whatever would their day look like if there weren't some issue to blame on the present administration?

 

[MaggieMae]

Really? The total wipeout of the Pakistani agriculture from the flooding there, the loss of 40% of the Russian grain crop, and 10% of the EU grain crop from the drought there, the loss of the Australian Queensland wheat, sugar, and banana crops, have nothing to do with the rise in prices. The loss of 1/3 of the world's coking coal, until the mines are drained and the rails rebuilt in Queensland has nothing to do with the rise in prices. And then there is the little matter of major unrest in the one of the major oil producing areas in the world.

But none of this has anything to do with the commodity prices. It has to be Bernanke's fault.

There is always a drought & flooding somewhere in the world. But people just keep on believing the governments spin that fraudulent lending & printing money are not the real cause of high commodity prices. Come on! - Even your freaking water bill has gone up over the past couple of years! It's the most abundant thing on the planet.

Unless you're proposing piping sea water in to grow food, or fill your water bottles with salt water, you're full of shit.

Global water shortages will pose major challenges - Analyst Insight from Euromonitor International

 

[MaggieMae]

Using farm land to produce 'energy' is wrong. Now even those that championed the cause admit it:

Review & Outlook: Bill Clinton's Corn Sense - WSJ.com

* FEBRUARY 25, 2011

Bill Clinton's Corn Sense
The former President connects ethanol to rising food prices.

America's political addiction to ethanol has consequences, from raising the price of food to lining the pockets of companies like Archer Daniels Midland. So we're delighted to see another prominent booster—Bill Clinton—see the fright.

"We have to become energy independent" but "we don't want to do it at the expense of food riots," the former President told an agriculture conference Thursday. He urged farmers to consider the needs of developing countries—the implication being that the diversion of corn to ethanol production limits food supplies and artificially raises prices.

No kidding. At the same gathering, Department of Agriculture chief economist Joseph Glauber did the math. Despite a forecasted 4% increase in corn planting, Mr. Glauber expects corn used for ethanol to hit a record five billion bushels in 2011-12, or more than one-third of total U.S. production, thanks to renewable fuel mandates and tax incentives. Corn prices recently hit two-and-a-half-year highs.

That means the forced U.S. ramp-up in ethanol production is commandeering corn that could otherwise go for food and contributing to higher food prices here and in much of the world. Meanwhile, India is seeing protests, China is imposing price controls, and Indonesia is stockpiling rice. Don't forget the inflationary impact of the Federal Reserve's easy money policies, which are pushing up prices across the globe more generally. ...

Review & Outlook: Al Gore's Ethanol Epiphany - WSJ.com

* NOVEMBER 27, 2010

Al Gore's Ethanol Epiphany
He concedes the industry he promoted serves no useful purpose.

Anyone who opposes ethanol subsidies, as these columns have for decades, comes to appreciate the wisdom of St. Jude. But now that a modern-day patron saint—St. Al of Green—has come out against the fuel made from corn and your tax dollars, maybe this isn't such a lost cause.

Welcome to the college of converts, Mr. Vice President. "It is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for first-generation ethanol," Al Gore told a gathering of clean energy financiers in Greece this week. The benefits of ethanol are "trivial," he added, but "It's hard once such a program is put in place to deal with the lobbies that keep it going."

No kidding, and Mr. Gore said he knows from experience: "One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for President."

Mr. Gore's mea culpa underscores the degree to which ethanol has become a purely political machine: It serves no purpose other than re-electing incumbents and transferring wealth to farm states and ethanol producers. Nothing proves this better than the coincident trajectories of ethanol and Mr. Gore's career.

Ethanol's claim on the Treasury was first made amid the 1970s energy crisis, with Jimmy Carter and a Democratic Congress subsidizing anything that claimed to be a substitute for foreign oil. Mr. Gore, freshman House class of 1976, was an early proponent of what was then called "gasahol."...

Switchgrass is an alternative to ethanol, though like it the use of land is questionable:

Is America Headed for a Food Shortage? | Popular Science

Is America Headed for a Food Shortage?
A new study suggests that ethanol production could drive up corn prices, leaving U.S. grains and meat in short supply
By Dawn Stover Posted 06.07.2007

Ethanol is a renewable, homegrown fuel that can help lower U.S. dependence on foreign oil. But as more and more ethanol is made from corn, less and less corn is available for food production, and that´s causing some unforeseen problems.

Corn is a mainstay of American agriculture- it´s an important ingredient in cereals and baked goods, and corn syrup is used to make processed foods like candy, chips and soft drinks. But most importantly, corn is the major source of food for cattle, pigs, turkeys and chickens that are headed for the dinner table.

A recent study conducted by the Center for Agricultural and Rural Development at Iowa State University (which receives funding from grocery manufacturers and livestock producers) reported that U.S. ethanol production could consume more than half of U.S. corn, wheat and coarse grains by 2012, driving up food prices and causing shortages. The study estimates that booming ethanol production has already raised U.S. food prices by $47 per person annually. In Mexico, protests have already erupted over the high price of corn tortillas, a staple food in the local diet.

Planting more corn is one solution, but that means planting less of other crops that are also widely used in foods, such as soybeans and wheat. Tilling fallow land could create more growing space for corn, but might lead to soil erosion and impacts on wildlife habitats.

According to a December 2006 study by the International Food Policy Research Institute, producing enough ethanol to fuel all of the world´s vehicles would require five times more corn than is planted today and 15 times as much sugar cane.

A more promising solution is to make ethanol from cellulose instead of starches and sugars-using plants such as switchgrass and organic waste instead of corn and sugarcane. This would also reduce greenhouse gas emissions much more effectively than making ethanol from corn....

But...but...but...gotta love those huge earmarks that go to corn producing states.

Six Republicans Sign Letter Demanding Ethanol Subsidy Extension | RedState

It is an unconstitutional regulation that has enriched a few special interests with $7.7 billion taxpayer dollars, regressively drove up the cost of food and fuel; and by extension all products and services that rely on fuel based delivery. The tax credits for energy producers who blend fuel with ethanol have created so many unintended (or intended by some) negative consequences that even Al Gore is calling for its repeal. The tax credits are slated to expire in one month and yet, we have not heard much from the newly elected Republican majority in the House. Is your Republican Congressman more conservative than Al Gore?

Is that call by Republicans to Republicans somewhere in their proposed budget slashing measure?

 

[MaggieMae]

There is no scarcity! There are just to damn many dollars circulating. There is probably more dollars than rocks on the ground & that makes dollars as worthless as rocks on the ground.

Stories of scarcity & supply disruption get moved up to front page news & main TV coverage because prices rise. It is the tail wagging the dog. Print money now & lie about a year or two later when prices rise. The media & government have brainwashed the planet.

Wrong. Food wise, there's a huge problem. Ethanol was always a bad idea.

We export more food now than we ever did before ethanol. We even export a larger percentage of our food than we ever did before ethanol. The media controls the peoples minds.
Huh? Those are two completely diverse thoughts.

On average, the world production of crops grew at a rate 40 percent faster than population.

Ethanol is a bad idea if you grow crops just to make ethanol. It is good if you use the DDGS co-product to feed the same animals that the original crops were going to feed. This is why it is only feasible to replace 12% of US fuel consumption. It will never replace oil.

I don't think anyone ever claimed it would replace oil.

 

[MaggieMae]

We export more food now than we ever did before ethanol. We even export a larger percentage of our food than we ever did before ethanol. The media controls the peoples minds. On average, the world production of crops grew at a rate 40 percent faster than population.

Ethanol is a bad idea if you grow crops just to make ethanol. It is good if you use the DDGS co-product to feed the same animals that the original crops were going to feed.

Straight out question to you: Are you in favor of continuing subsidies on corn production for ethanol?

No- Ethanol is profitable without subsidy. They should have never forced oil companies to ship to all corners of the USA. It would have competed just fine in the local Midwest as E85. The problem now is that the media has bashed it so bad that people refuse to use it, so now you need some sort of mandate. Even with corn prices at all time highs the ethanol plants turn out ethanol at $2.33 a gallon. Last year production cost was only $1.00 a gallon.

The reason more people haven't at least tried corn ethanol is because there are so few gas stations that sell it. Wouldn't the reason for that be that the big oil companies have much more control over what we buy for fuel than the media?

 

[rdean]

America's Obesity Crisis:Agriculture: The Corn Connection - TIME

We shouldn't be eating so much corn.

 

[MaggieMae]

I have empathy for the farmers, they seem to still collect massive debt, get vilified for subsidies that politicians use them for, and manage to keep breaking records in food production.

However, using land to replace fossil fuels is not sustainable and certainly not in the world populations interests.

Bring on hydrogen or some new products. Keep the government out of it.

I agree, but the problem is the private sector has no interest in developing those alternatives without government subsidies, and that includes nuclear.

 

[Annie]

Straight out question to you: Are you in favor of continuing subsidies on corn production for ethanol?

No- Ethanol is profitable without subsidy. They should have never forced oil companies to ship to all corners of the USA. It would have competed just fine in the local Midwest as E85. The problem now is that the media has bashed it so bad that people refuse to use it, so now you need some sort of mandate. Even with corn prices at all time highs the ethanol plants turn out ethanol at $2.33 a gallon. Last year production cost was only $1.00 a gallon.

The reason more people haven't at least tried corn ethanol is because there are so few gas stations that sell it. Wouldn't the reason for that be that the big oil companies have much more control over what we buy for fuel than the media?

In Illinois we have up to 10% ethanol, no choice unless diesel. We are very familiar with it.

 

[boedicca]

We're the only major civilization in the history of humanity to burn food for fuel.

The result, rampant food inflation which is hitting the poor around the globe. Food inflation is 10% in China. It's not a good thing for us to burn food while owing so much money to a country with a long history of famine. Think about it.

 

[KissMy]

I'm cool with all that except the blender/pump credits. Any links?

The "wars" thing? Pfft. If anything, it encourages imports.

I am all for Drill Here Drill Now. Anything that gets us off the Arabs oil is what I am for.

I find it interesting that you are in the energy business and didn't know the oil companies get the "Ethanol Subsidy" money & not the ethanol plants or farmers.

Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC) - The "Blenders' Credit"

Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC) - The "Blenders' Credit"
Commonly referred to as the "blender's credit," the Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC) was created in 2004 as part of H.R. 4520, the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004 (JOBS Bill, P.L. 108-357). VEETC provides oil companies with an economic incentive to blend ethanol with gasoline. As of January 1, 2009, the original tax credit totaling 51 cents per gallon on pure ethanol (5.1 cents per gallon for E10, and 42 cents per gallon on E85) was reduced to 45 cents per gallon. The tax credit is passed on to motorists in the form of more cost-effective fuel at the pump. VEETC is currently authorized through December 31, 2010.

So was I right Mr. H.? Aren't the oil companies the ones getting the "Ethanol Subsidy" money & not the ethanol plants or farmers?