Adam sinned, not Eve. Why did Yahweh punish an innocent Eve?

[onefour1]

Because he insured that the talking serpent was there being controlled Satan whom he made sure could not be resisted. Right?

Regards
DL

God gave to mankind from the beginning their free will to choose. But God knowing how Adam and Eve would choose or how they would use their free will, knew that they would partake of the fruit. It was all planned from the beginning before the foundation of the earth to provide a Savior so that mankind could repent and return unto God. God did not give Satan any special power to be able to overcome Adam and Eve's ability to choose for themselves. Eve was beguiled by the devil and gave into the temptation. She then tried to get Adam to partake also. It was then that Adam gave in to the temptation also and partook of the fruit. Satan did not control Eve but merely tempted her to eat and she chose to do it. Adam also had his free will to partake or not and chose to partake. Both by their own free will and choice broke the commandment and were guilty of doing so. This brought about the fall of mankind and allowed for all the children of God to come to this earth and experience good and evil. By doing so mankind gains a greater knowledge and understanding of eternal principles and progresses by becoming more like God himself. Adam and Eve's disobedience allowed God to put them into a fallen state to gain the experience they needed to become more like God. Jesus' atoning sacrifice allows mankind to return unto God if they so choose and it also gives all immortality. All part of the overall plan to progress his children.

 

[GreatestIam]

If he's a tribe, he may be the first "man," but not necessarily the first homo sapien.

Adam was not Nod, nor vice versa.

True.

It would be stupid for anyone to believe in a real Adam, instead of seeing Adam, as adam, and an archetypal construct.

Regards
DL

 

[norwegen]

True.

It would be stupid for anyone to believe in a real Adam, instead of seeing Adam, as adam, and an archetypal construct.

Regards
DL

Nearly as foolish would be to see Adam as men and Eve as women.

Adam was the tribe into whose nostrils God breathed life - Adam and Eve. A tribe who walked with God. A living tribe.

Their relationship with God could not have been severed if not for Eve. Spirit is life; death is condemnation. Adam ate the fruit of another; he worshipped the gods of another, and then on that very day, he died. He was condemned. That could not have happened without Eve.

 

[GreatestIam]

God gave to mankind from the beginning their free will to choose.

Only fools see A& E as knowing what was good or evil before they ate from it.

If I ask you to choose between poison and good food, without you knowing the words I use to describe them, you can choose, but is it an intelligent choice or just a shot in the dark?

It was all planned from the beginning before the foundation of the earth

Yes, showing how sick Yahweh the infanticidal prick is.

Tell us, if you had to have a blood sacrifice, would you step up or send your child to be murdered?

If you are moral, you would step up.

She then tried to get Adam to partake also

Tried??
She put her hand out and Adam wisely shut up and just ate.

So A & E furthered gods plan, according to you, if I read you correctly, and god still murdered them by neglect.

Quite the reward.

You have added a lot to the story to make it work for you and you bible says not to do that.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Nearly as foolish would be to see Adam as men and Eve as women.

Adam was the tribe into whose nostrils God breathed life - Adam and Eve. A tribe who walked with God. A living tribe.

Their relationship with God could not have been severed if not for Eve. Spirit is life; death is condemnation. Adam ate the fruit of another; he worshipped the gods of another, and then on that very day, he died. He was condemned. That could not have happened without Eve.

If you cannot get this quote, go away.

New King James Version
He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

You are right that Eve severed the bonds to the genocidal prick, but Christians love that satanic prick too much to follow her intelligent and moral example.

Regards
DL

 

[emilynghiem]

Adam sinned, not Eve. Why did Yahweh punish an innocent Eve?

Be you a believer or not, your life has been affected by the mainstream religions and the myth of Adam and Eve. It is the source of Christian homophobia and misogyny.

There are many strange things in the myth of Adam and Eve.
Was Adam born alone or first?
If Adam was created in God’s image and likeness, who is woman modeled after?
Satan is depicted in part as a woman.

Who was she modeled on and why female? Likely because of evolution and women being men’s biological prize.

In law, to be punished, one must be shown to have evil intent or an evil mind. Latin, Men’s Rea.

This is what human justice is based on.

Was Eve innocent, given that she had no evil intent?

Regards
DL

Before there was Eve who represents subjugation of the female serving the male as dominant, there was Lilith representing the dominant female.

Neither stage, of matriarchal female dominance or of patriarchal male dominance, has led to lasting peace, but perpetuate imbalance and oppression by abuse of power and thus rebellion.

The whole point of Jesus being the break in the endless cycle of sin, suffering and retribution from past injustice, tribal genocide, and disparity is to forgive and liberate humanity from past oppression and abuse that otherwise keeps repeating and projecting forward.

That's good to teach warnings from the past GreatestIam
But unless we promote a better solution, it is not enough to keep shifting blame from one target group to another.

That just keeps the same destruction going.

Forgiveness and corrections that help HEAL the mind, spirit and RELATIONS between us will do more good to change institutions and society for the better.

DL the day I see people like you and me agree on the best ways to teach Christianity instead of fighting who to blame, that is when I will know we are reaching enlightenment and the path to realizing salvation.

My prayers and support to you in contributing much to that enlightenment process.

Take care, take heart and take courage!

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[norwegen]

If you cannot get this quote, go away.

New King James Version
He created them male and female, and blessed them and called them Mankind in the day they were created.

You are right that Eve severed the bonds to the genocidal prick, but Christians love that satanic prick too much to follow her intelligent and moral example.

Regards
DL

See, right there He called them mankind. Adam and Eve were mankind, men and women. Adam was not men and Eve was not women. They were both Adam.

 

[GreatestIam]

Before there was Eve who represents subjugation of the female serving the male as dominant, there was Lilith representing the dominant female.

Neither stage, of matriarchal female dominance or of patriarchal male dominance, has led to lasting peace, but perpetuate imbalance and oppression by abuse of power and thus rebellion.

The whole point of Jesus being the break in the endless cycle of sin, suffering and retribution from past injustice, tribal genocide, and disparity is to forgive and liberate humanity from past oppression and abuse that otherwise keeps repeating and projecting forward.

That's good to teach warnings from the past GreatestIam
But unless we promote a better solution, it is not enough to keep shifting blame from one target group to another.

That just keeps the same destruction going.

Forgiveness and corrections that help HEAL the mind, spirit and RELATIONS between us will do more good to change institutions and society for the better.

DL the day I see people like you and me agree on the best ways to teach Christianity instead of fighting who to blame, that is when I will know we are reaching enlightenment and the path to realizing salvation.

My prayers and support to you in contributing much to that enlightenment process.

Take care, take heart and take courage!

Yours truly,
Emily

I appreciate your mental position and do not disagree.

Lilith is not really as part of Christianity and I do not want to muddy the waters, given that to Lilith and Jews, Eden was where we were elevated, not where we fell.

Salvation is not required if we are to talk of Lilith and the Jewish version that Christianity screwed up.

I do hope you can work without Lilith, but if you cannot, recognize that she represents equality between men and women as compared to the misogyny promoted in scriptures.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

See, right there He called them mankind. Adam and Eve were mankind, men and women. Adam was not men and Eve was not women. They were both Adam.

Not when you capitalize adam the way you have been.

Regardless, I am done with this issue here.

I am here to discuss morals and justice. Not the meaning of words.

Regards
DL

 

[emilynghiem]

Only fools see A& E as knowing what was good or evil before they ate from it.

If I ask you to choose between poison and good food, without you knowing the words I use to describe them, you can choose, but is it an intelligent choice or just a shot in the dark?


Yes, showing how sick Yahweh the infanticidal prick is.

Tell us, if you had to have a blood sacrifice, would you step up or send your child to be murdered?

If you are moral, you would step up.


Tried??
She put her hand out and Adam wisely shut up and just ate.

So A & E furthered gods plan, according to you, if I read you correctly, and god still murdered them by neglect.

Quite the reward.

You have added a lot to the story to make it work for you and you bible says not to do that.

Regards
DL

Dear GreatestIam
Yes, the whole point and process of sacrifice and redemption through Christ Jesus *IS* to clear the cumulative sins or karma in the collective spirit.

The symolism used in the Bible *IS* what you described, what it looks like by the time the process of justice manifests.

That *IS* God's will, Word and Laws of Justice being incarnated and embodied on the human physical level, and sacrificed *in this form* in order to reconcile God and man through this connection in Christ.

God representing the infinite and eternal cannot fit in finite human form, so God's manifestation in Jesus is what it takes for that divine process to occur.

It is the equivalent of God making the sacrifice.

Humans are finite and live in a limited world, so for God to send and manifest in our world for the purpose of breaking the cycle of retribution and transforming all the sins and suffering collectively through Christ Jesus as the connection, this is what it looks like to us.

Using our limited symbolism and finite linear language and 2D or 3D perception to capture as best we can.
God being infinite, we will not be able to grasp much less communicate this perfectly.

The overall process is still the same: after injustice breaks faith, by forgiving and restoring justice this brings healing and peace. That is the message and meaning of Christ Jesus as the one Mediator between God and man. And the one Messiah of Salvation and Message of Restorative Justice with Mercy and Peace for all Humanity by God's Universal Truth and Love.

 

[emilynghiem]

Not when you capitalize adam the way you have been.

Regardless, I am done with this issue here.

I am here to discuss morals and justice. Not the meaning of words.

Regards
DL

Thank you DL
The main difference I see is in HOW we go about restoring the original harmony and equality.

Because people carry tribal biases, by collective mentality it is hard for people especially groups to let go of past thinking.

The forgiveness it takes is on the level of the grace that Christianity teaches. That key concept of "forgiving others in order to be forgiven equally" is correct in the Bible. That is the hardest law to follow.
This is why so many people rely on prayers in Christ Jesus for help to forgive.

If more people could be like you and just realize equal forgiveness in order to return to the original equal state of naire and humanity, yes, we'd be there already!

I pray we can achieve this equal state of mind and spirit. Whether people can grasp it as you see and teach it, or they use the Christian route to get there.

The Buddhists also teach to let go of delusion and false teaching/authority and always seek Wisdom and Compassion towards all beings equally.

If all people can achieve this, we are talking about the same goal of restorin humanity to the original pure and natural state of peace and harmony.

I fully agree with you on these higher goals. Some people cannot go into the bigger history, some cannot get into the deeper levels of spiritual nature without getting lost or trapped in dark energy and curses from the past.

One good advantage to the Christian practice of spiritual healing prayer through forgiveness is using these concentrated prayers to BREAK people free from past generational curses and chronic addiction and oppression.

So some of Christian practice is positive and an effective tool for overcoming the very ills you see plaguing humanity.

I believe in using all available tools that can work for people to break free from the past.

Thank you for your efforts and outreach and may all the best of your intentions and insights help many more people to become fully aware and replicate a positive ripple effect of freedom and knowledge empowering the masses.

Yours truly,
Emily

 

[GreatestIam]

Yes, the whole point and process of sacrifice and redemption through Christ Jesus

Good.

Let's look at the morals shall we. This is where I find out if you are a moral coward or not.

On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL

 

[onefour1]

You are obviously a Mormon. GOD is bringing humanity full circle. We are not eternal spirit children born to God the FATHER and some mother "Wisdom". We are CREATED beings. GOD the FATHER, SON , and HOLY SPIRIT are eternal and the ONLY GOD that exists or existed or will ever exist!

Yes we are created beings. But creation does not imply creation from nothing. We know that our spirits pre-existed this earth life and we also know that Adam's body was created from the dust of the ground. No exnihilo creation in the Bible. Through the process of procreation, our spirits gain a physical body and when we die, our spirits return unto God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7​

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The word "return" implies that our spirit was was once with God before coming to this earth.

John 9:1-3
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

In this verse the disciples asked Jesus if the blind man had sinned prior to being born and if that was the reason he was born blind. This would have been the perfect opportunity for Jesus to teach his erroring disciples that the man never existed before he was born on the earth. However, Jesus did not such thing. He simple told them that the man did not sin before birth. Why would the disciples ask such a question if they first did not believe that pre-mortal existence were a true principle?

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

According to the above verse, Michael and his angels fought against Satan and his angels. Satan was cast out of heaven along with his angels and were cast into the earth. Verse 10 speaks of how the accuser (Satan) was cast down who accused Michael and his angels before God day and night. Michael and his angels are referred here as our brethren. Then in verse 11, we are told that Michael and his angels overcame Satan by the blood of the Lamb. The blood of the Lamb is for the forgiveness of sin. How is it that Michael and his angels needed the blood of the Lamb? Those who need the blood of the Lamb are mortals who live on a fallen earth. Notice also that they loved not their lives unto the death. Thus they were also subject to death. Who in heaven is subject to death? The reason Michael and his angels were subject to death and needed the blood of the Lamb was because they were sent down to and earth as mortals and were subject to good and evil and needed the blood of the Lamb to regain heaven. They were subject to death also as all mortal beings are. We who receive a body on this earth were Michael and his angels who fought against the dragon before coming to this earth. And it is here on this earth that the battle continues.

 

[GreatestIam]

The Buddhists also teach to let go of delusion and false teaching/authority and always seek Wisdom and Compassion towards all beings equally.

Buddhism is quite close to what Gnostic Christianity and esoteric Judaism is.

That and our moral sense is why some say the only good Christians are Gnostic Christians.

Belief in the supernatural is what has forced Christians to be so contemptuous of those they think their own god creates for them to hate.

Women and gays.

Pray that all Christian devils become Gnostic Christian and moral.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

the original harmony and equality.

Note how Gnostic Christians are universalists with a heaven but no hell, because we have tied the equality of all souls to the righteousness of god.

Gnostic Scriptures and Fragments: Epiphanes - On Righteousness

Epiphanes: On Righteousness. Part of a vast collection of materials dealing with Gnosis and Gnosticism, both ancient and modern.

gnosis.org

If Yahweh cannot save us all as scriptures show his will to be, he is not worthy of us.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

 

[ding]

Adam sinned, not Eve. Why did Yahweh punish an innocent Eve?

Be you a believer or not, your life has been affected by the mainstream religions and the myth of Adam and Eve. It is the source of Christian homophobia and misogyny.

There are many strange things in the myth of Adam and Eve.
Was Adam born alone or first?
If Adam was created in God’s image and likeness, who is woman modeled after?
Satan is depicted in part as a woman.

Who was she modeled on and why female? Likely because of evolution and women being men’s biological prize.

In law, to be punished, one must be shown to have evil intent or an evil mind. Latin, Men’s Rea.

This is what human justice is based on.

Was Eve innocent, given that she had no evil intent?

Regards
DL

It was allegorical. Relax. But we aren't punished for disobeying God. We punish ourselves for failing to take accountability when we disobey God.

 

[ding]

Buddhism is quite close to what Gnostic Christianity and esoteric Judaism is.

Don't be silly. You aren't a Gnostic Christian. You don't know what Gnostic Christians believe.

 

[GreatestIam]

So some of Christian practice is positive and an effective tool for overcoming the very ills you see plaguing humanity.

True. A few.

Most do not and would stone all gays for being a god made them and women who dare teach in the church and try to correct immoral male thinking.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

We know that our spirits pre-existed this earth

If you know this, show the facts that led you to know this.

I said facts, not hear say.

Regards
DL

 

[ding]

Belief in the supernatural is what has forced Christians to be so contemptuous of those they think their own god creates for them to hate.

So your'e an atheist then?