Zone1 According to Pastor Andy Stanley We Aren't Supposed to Talk About The Bible to Unbelievers

[Meriweather]

YOU are the only person that can save YOU.

Start with the good news we have been redeemed.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

For somebody who wants to lead people to Christ he's not making any sense. It's one thing to not cram religious beliefs down somebody's throat, but they should at least hear about Jesus first and see if they want to make that choice to follow Him.

We've all heard of Jesus and what he was about.
It just varies from one religion to another.

I love theology, and I can talk about for as long as anybody will let me. But I will never be religious.
To coin a religious phrase that was popular when I was younger..........."I've SEEN the truth, and it was mindblowing"!

 

[Road Runner]

We've all heard of Jesus and what he was about.

Not necessarily. In many countries around the world most people there don't have a clue.

 

[occupied]

For somebody who wants to lead people to Christ he's not making any sense. It's one thing to not cram religious beliefs down somebody's throat, but they should at least hear about Jesus first and see if they want to make that choice to follow Him.

Jesus said to spread his word by example. Were Christians mainly preoccupied with his selfless life of service rather than his death and the associated mysticism things would be alright. The only problem anyone has with Christians is their hypocrisy.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I can only say what I've said before....................

In short.............

If there WAS a Jesus or god, there still has not been any proof. TONS of theories, but nothing solid.

If the bible IS real, then out of the THOUSANDS of bibles floating around this planet........WHICH one is the REAL one?
All religions claim THEIR bible is THE bible. But thats all BS, because every bible says something different........even all the English/American bibles.

And even with that, how do you know how many times ALL of these bibles have been rewritten, edited, changed, and altered to fit the wants and agendas of those in power?

If anything, this guy is correct. If you are religious and you believe, then you can't go by the bible, because it isn't reliable, even though he says it has reliable information.....which is BS. It either IS or IS NOT what you go by. You can't have it both ways.

Lots of proof there was Jesus. That He was the Son of God is the question.
There was someone new claiming to be the Messiah every week. Then they died. Then one showed up who changed water into fine wine, cured blindness, straightened bones, brought the dead back to life, was seen dead on a cross and then seen alive again for 40 days by so many people that they knew this one was who He said He was. To the extent that they were willing to be sacrificed by the millions rather than deny what they saw. That is compelling evidence...

The Bible hasn't been translated thousands of times. Scribes work in translating (from Hebrew to Greek) was extremely stringent. Letters were counted up and down and corner to corner. The letters were counted to find the middle letter on the page and they had to match. The copies were gone over with a fine tooth comb. You can trust the King James Version, and if a word was mistranslated from Greek to English, no theme was lost. You can trust it.

It is so accurate the archeologists follow it to unearth ancient cities. The Dead Sea Scrolls verify it, historic documents verify it, buried scribed stones verify it. The Kings in Kings have been verified. The Planetary Disk that was discovered mapped the meteor that destroyed Sodom. And on and on...
As for different religious Bibles, which one is truth? One is 1/4 prophesy to prove to you where the information you are reading is coming from. (I can explain that ability to you if you'd like.)
Only one could tell us the day and year Israel would become a nation again, 2000 years before it happened. Only one described what the End Times would be like. The Bible prophesied a New World Order, long before there was a Rothschild or Soros or Schwab. There are 8,352 verses pertaining to prophesy in one book, and it has not been wrong yet. No other religious book offers that proof.
Trust the one that does, and quit looking for excuses to avoid it...

 

[The Irish Ram]

Jesus said to spread his word by example. Were Christians mainly preoccupied with his selfless life of service rather than his death and the associated mysticism things would be alright. The only problem anyone has with Christians is their hypocrisy.

What about me do you find hypocritical?

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

This guy is making some sense. Most devoted Christians don't seem to care how poorly they represent the faith they are constantly pushing in people's faces.

I'm all up for someone telling me how happy their relgion makes them. Nothing wrong with that.

But........like most people who are non-believers........we don't like the lunatics getting in our faces and DEMANDING we "turn our lives around" and "follow Jesus" or go to "hell"!! Nobody likes that, it turns people off.

Heard of the old saying "you can catch more flies with honey, than with vinegar"? Yeah........thats how you do it. Even if they say they aren't interested, at least they allowed you to talk to them about it without walking off disgusted.

I've had friends in the past say "come to church with me" and I remind them I'm not religious. And they don't care, they just wanted me to be with them, or the pastor/priest might have been talking about something interesting and they wanted me to hear it too. I don't mind. They're my friends, I'm not going to burst into flames or melt once I pass through the doorway of the church!!!! Well, at least I haven't so far. LOL

And to be honest, there ARE some preachers/priests out there that DO talk about the human condition and life, rather than spewing out old bible verses for two hours. Now, if it's talking about the human condition and life, I can absolutely be interested enough to sit and listen!

The ideal of religion isn't bad, it's the people who abuse it for their own selfish purposes that I have big problems with, and unfortunately, from what I've seen in my life so far, that a good 95% of them.

 

[Road Runner]

Sure I could probably trust the King James' version, but it's way too difficult for me to read.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

What about me do you find hypocritical?

I haven't found YOU personally hypocritial. As I stated before, it's the ORGANIZED part I have problems with.

You, as an individual is one thing. Religion as a whole, is quite another.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Road Runner]

Baron Von Murderpaws I definitely understand where you're coming from and to me I don't think there's any point of trying to push the Bible at somebody who doesn't want to hear it, but how will you know unless you bring it up first?

 

[occupied]

What about me do you find hypocritical?

Christians who have their faith all wrapped up with right wing politics are hypocrisy personified. They've ransacked the OT for moral escape clauses to avoid doing anything Jesus told them to do.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

Sure I could probably trust the King James' version, but it's way too difficult for me to read.

Let me put it this way.............

If you use your bible as a GUIDE for YOUR personal betterment and enhancement of well-being, go for it!!!
If it helps you through your highs and lows in life, more power to you!!!

BUT.........

If you use it as a crutch, use it to belittle others, bash others, or condescend and demean others.........THEN I have a problem with it.

Does that make any sense? I'm not AGAINST the bible perse', I'm against the ABUSE of it.

 

[Road Runner]

Let me put it this way.............

If you use your bible as a GUIDE for YOUR personal betterment and enhancement of well-being, go for it!!!
If it helps you through your highs and lows in life, more power to you!!!

BUT.........

If you use it as a crutch, use it to belittle others, bash others, or condescend and demean others.........THEN I have a problem with it.

Does that make any sense? I'm not AGAINST the bible perse', I'm against the ABUSE of it.

Oh, totally, but why can't we share it with others just in case they would like a chance to know the Lord?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Then that would be hypocrisy.
Which is one of the major points of religion.

No, it is mercy. If you don't understand, you are not necessarily guilty. If you understand and purposely reject it, you are in trouble. It is why Jesus spoke in parables, that and to cull the ones who had a penchant to understand.

Another reason is to allow those who scoff to reach the end of their own undoing in order to turn to God to save them.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

Baron Von Murderpaws I definitely understand where you're coming from and to me I don't think there's any point of trying to push the Bible at somebody who doesn't want to hear it, but how will you know unless you bring it up first?

Theres TONS of ways you can hint at the subject or even ask politely.

You just don't walk up to someone and start sreaming obscenities at them and then tell them they're going to hell if they don't convert to YOUR way of thinking and believing!!!

If you come up to me and say "HEY! Baron V, would you mind if I talk religion with you for a few minutes"?
I'd say "Sure, come on, lets go to DQ and sit and chat"!

It's all how you present and sell. Right? Make sense?



I've had religious people get in my face and scream at me......all I want to do is mow them down and run for it.

I've had religious people stop me on the sidewalk and say "Hi! How are you doing today? Would you have time to listen to what I have to say? It will only take 30 seconds, and we can part ways after that if you wish".

If you haven't guessed it by now, I love people with manners!!! Of COURSE I have 30 seconds for someone THIS tactile and verbally graceful! I'd be a schmuck if I didn't!!!

I may be a huge A-hole, but my granny taught me manners and etiquette. And I try and use them all the time. And when someone uses their good manners and etiquette on ME..........I can only give them what they are asking for, if it is within my power to do so. Because THAT, according to my granny, is the CHRISTIAN thing to do. And I don't do it because it's "Christian", I do it because I love my granny and miss her, and love that SHE took the time to teach me things like this.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

Oh, totally, but why can't we share it with others just in case they would like a chance to know the Lord?

You can ALWAYS share.
Again, it's not the SHARING........it's getting them interested without peeving them off.

You're fishing. You've got to use the proper bait to catch what you're fishing for.

You don't throw a steak in the water to catch a fish, you throw a worm in there on a hook.

Same goes with humans. You got to use the right bait to catch them.

Sweet is better than sour. Short is better than long. A smile is better than a scream.

 

[Road Runner]

Baron Von Murderpaws Exactly! Presentation is the key.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Believe me..........I KNOW. I've SEEN IT IN ACTION.

My mother was a church hopper and a "Sunday Christian". Every 6 months she changed churches.
Even being 12 years old at the time when I started realizing what was going on.......it was all the same in all the different churches she constantly dragged me and my sister too. Hypocrisy, lies, deceit, and corruption. All wrapped up in relgious words, topped with a million dollar building, with people trying to "one up" each other after the sermons.

After a couple of years of this, I started fighting her to not go to these places, as they were heinous atrocities to me, even at that age. It literally made me sick to be in the midst of all the liars, frauds, panderers, and Karens there were.

As far as religion is concerned I HAVE heard it all and seen it all, with my own ears and with my own eyes.

If you want to believe, thats fine. I don't have anything against anybody that has a belief system. It's the organized liars, cheats, and frauds I have a problem with.

No offense, just giving you my background on the religious issues.

For a 12 year old, I am curious as to what corruption in your church or churches you were able to uncover. Were they having orgies behind the alter after the services? Taking trips to Disneyland with money they collected for an orphanage to be built in the neighborhood? Did they preach abstinence and then did you catch the preacher coming out of the local bar, or buying crack in the alley? Just what did the preacher say that you later caught him in a lie? Did Karen start screaming at your mother for sitting in her private pew? What heinous atrocities did you witness???
heinous ~ (of a person or wrongful act, especially a crime) utterly odious or wicked.
atrocities ~ an extremely wicked or cruel act, typically one involving physical violence or injury
Were they sacrificing babies on the alter??

 

[The Irish Ram]

You can ALWAYS share.
Again, it's not the SHARING........it's getting them interested without peeving them off.

You're fishing. You've got to use the proper bait to catch what you're fishing for.

You don't throw a steak in the water to catch a fish, you throw a worm in there on a hook.

Same goes with humans. You got to use the right bait to catch them.

Sweet is better than sour. Short is better than long. A smile is better than a scream.

You mean like John the Baptist using kid gloves around the King?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Saved? From what exactly?

My momma had me "baptized". Because I was dunked in some water, that means I'm now free to do anything and everything I want and still go to heaven? I don't think so.

YOU are the only person that can save YOU. Doesn't matter how many "hail Marys" you spout or how many prayers you say........if you break ANY of your bibles rules, then you are only going in one direction, and it ain't up.

Saved from the second death. Eternity separated from God.
Sin doesn't enter Heaven. Christ substituted His pure, clean record for you to enter Heaven with and took your sin filled record and nailed it to the cross. What more do you require?
Do you think you can save yourself and work your way there?
Does the Bible say "Hail Marys" will save you?
How many rules do you think there are? Is one to many for you to handle?
Does the Bible say if you break a rule you go in one direction or does it say your loving Father will forgive your sins and forget about them completely?
How many prayers do you think you have to spout? I know of only one:
Father, forgive me. I am a sinner. I need Christ in my life...