Abraham Lincoln on trial

[JakeStarkey]

Contumacious can't remember the past, truncates others posts, and misanalyzes his own sources.

 

[PredFan]

Better read your source again. Taney's ruling in Dred Scott made slavery applicable throughout the Union. That is not what Lincoln supported, and your source carefully points out that Lincoln did not endorse the Amendment.

As usual, the facts don't follow the progressive agenda, expecially historical facts.

Lincoln supported the Corwin Amendment which would have protected slavery in the states that it already existed in. Here is a link to facts about Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment:

Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment « Crossroads

Of particular interest is this quote by Lincoln:

"Do the people of the South really entertain fears that a Republican administration would, directly or indirectly, interfere with their slaves, or with them, about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you, as once a friend, and still, I hope, not an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears. The South would be in no more danger in this respect than it was in the days of Washington. I suppose, however, this does not meet the case. You think slavery is right and should be extended; while we think slavery is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us."

I never stated that he endorsed Dred Scott. He did support the Corwin Amendment.

 

[Contumacious]

Contumacious can't remember the past,

I distinctly remember the post where you demanded in a heavy Teutonic accent that :

"Parasites of the world, unite."

.

 

[paperview]

Better read your source again. Taney's ruling in Dred Scott made slavery applicable throughout the Union. That is not what Lincoln supported, and your source carefully points out that Lincoln did not endorse the Amendment.

As usual, the facts don't follow the progressive agenda, expecially historical facts.

Lincoln supported the Corwin Amendment which would have protected slavery in the states that it already existed in. Here is a link to facts about Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment:

Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment « Crossroads

Of particular interest is this quote by Lincoln:

"Do the people of the South really entertain fears that a Republican administration would, directly or indirectly, interfere with their slaves, or with them, about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you, as once a friend, and still, I hope, not an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears. The South would be in no more danger in this respect than it was in the days of Washington. I suppose, however, this does not meet the case. You think slavery is right and should be extended; while we think slavery is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us."

I never stated that he endorsed Dred Scott. He did support the Corwin Amendment.

Lincoln's March 16, 1861 letters to the governors did not endorse or oppose the proposed thirteenth amendment. They merely transmitted a copy of the joint resolution to amend the constitution. This was the first step to ratification by the states. After the firing on Fort Sumter and Lincoln's call for troops, important border states Virginia and Tennessee, among others, seceded. The Civil War began and the purpose of the Corwin amendment was greatly reduced. However, Ohio and Maryland ratified it, and the 1862 Illinois Constitutional Convention endorsed it.


The discovery of Lincoln's letter to the governor of Florida does not alter the historical perspective that Lincoln was willing to compromise to restore the Union before hostilities began. It also underscores Lincoln's evolution toward emancipation. This snapshot of March 1861 shows Lincoln's last attempt to restore the Union while maintaining his party's platform. While personally opposed to slavery, Lincoln believed the Constitution supported it. His support of the Corwin amendment attempted to codify that belief, but the Civil War changed his opinion on presidential power. Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862, and in 1865, vigorously worked to pass the actual thirteenth amendment, which declared slavery illegal.

More on the Corwin Amendment: Abraham Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment

 

[rightwinger]

But WHY is it that you don't consider Obama Hellcare as "skirting " the law?


.

Which law would that be?

" A tax, in the general understanding of the term, and as used in the Constitution, signifies an exaction for the support of the government. The word has never been thought to connote the expropriation of money from one group for the benefit of another."


U.S. v. BUTLER, 297 U.S. 1 (1936)

.

.

That is an opinion not a law

It makes no sense.....all taxes take money from one group to benefit another

what planet have you been living on?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Lincoln did not support Corwin. Your own source said he did not endorse it.

What you are saying is not true.

Better read your source again. Taney's ruling in Dred Scott made slavery applicable throughout the Union. That is not what Lincoln supported, and your source carefully points out that Lincoln did not endorse the Amendment.

As usual, the facts don't follow the progressive agenda, expecially historical facts.

Lincoln supported the Corwin Amendment which would have protected slavery in the states that it already existed in. Here is a link to facts about Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment:

Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment « Crossroads

Of particular interest is this quote by Lincoln:

"Do the people of the South really entertain fears that a Republican administration would, directly or indirectly, interfere with their slaves, or with them, about their slaves? If they do, I wish to assure you, as once a friend, and still, I hope, not an enemy, that there is no cause for such fears. The South would be in no more danger in this respect than it was in the days of Washington. I suppose, however, this does not meet the case. You think slavery is right and should be extended; while we think slavery is wrong and ought to be restricted. That I suppose is the rub. It certainly is the only substantial difference between us."

I never stated that he endorsed Dred Scott. He did support the Corwin Amendment.

 

[PredFan]

Better read your source again. Taney's ruling in Dred Scott made slavery applicable throughout the Union. That is not what Lincoln supported, and your source carefully points out that Lincoln did not endorse the Amendment.

I never stated that he endorsed Dred Scott. He did support the Corwin Amendment.

Lincoln's March 16, 1861 letters to the governors did not endorse or oppose the proposed thirteenth amendment. They merely transmitted a copy of the joint resolution to amend the constitution. This was the first step to ratification by the states. After the firing on Fort Sumter and Lincoln's call for troops, important border states Virginia and Tennessee, among others, seceded. The Civil War began and the purpose of the Corwin amendment was greatly reduced. However, Ohio and Maryland ratified it, and the 1862 Illinois Constitutional Convention endorsed it.


The discovery of Lincoln's letter to the governor of Florida does not alter the historical perspective that Lincoln was willing to compromise to restore the Union before hostilities began. It also underscores Lincoln's evolution toward emancipation. This snapshot of March 1861 shows Lincoln's last attempt to restore the Union while maintaining his party's platform. While personally opposed to slavery, Lincoln believed the Constitution supported it. His support of the Corwin amendment attempted to codify that belief, but the Civil War changed his opinion on presidential power. Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862, and in 1865, vigorously worked to pass the actual thirteenth amendment, which declared slavery illegal.

More on the Corwin Amendment: Abraham Lincoln and the Corwin Amendment

Cool, thanks.

 

[Contumacious]

Which law would that be?

" A tax, in the general understanding of the term, and as used in the Constitution, signifies an exaction for the support of the government. The word has never been thought to connote the expropriation of money from one group for the benefit of another."


U.S. v. BUTLER, 297 U.S. 1 (1936)

.

.

That is an opinion not a law

It makes no sense.....all taxes take money from one group to benefit another

what planet have you been living on?

Well, at the time - 1936 -the folks believed that SCOTUS' MAJORITY opinions were the law. Have that changed ?

And if that was not the Law, why did scumbag FDR become so enraged that he threatened to abolish the Supreme Court?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

.

 

[PredFan]

Lincoln did not support Corwin. Your own source said he did not endorse it.

What you are saying is not true.

Better read your source again. Taney's ruling in Dred Scott made slavery applicable throughout the Union. That is not what Lincoln supported, and your source carefully points out that Lincoln did not endorse the Amendment.

I never stated that he endorsed Dred Scott. He did support the Corwin Amendment.

Fine, he didn't officially endorse it, but the intention of my post, that Lincoln was willing to compromise on the slavery issue to avoid sucession remains. It's implications are clear.

 

[Darkwind]

The first and foremost duty of the President is the preservation of the United States.

This is what Lincoln did.

Notions and talk about creating a powerful centralized government are nonsense and nothing more than bringing modern desires into a reading of history. The country is so polarized, and the people on this forum so locked up in their addiction to arguing ANYTHING, they will project their own feelings on ANYTHING!

The States have rights and responsibilities. Their responsibility is to to adhere to their pacts and sacred word when they agreed to form this Union. It is too late to back out now. Their rights are outlined in the Constitution.

For those people who think they can secede from the Union, or even want to, are cowards and morons.

You don't like your government? Then work to change it. Don't run away like sniveling little kids taking your ball and going home.

This country fragments and we will soon be bowing down to real dictators and despots. Its only a fool who thinks that separate states can stand alone against the world we live in today.

 

[PredFan]

Some states didn't agree to form THIS union. They lost a war.

 

[Darkwind]

Some states didn't agree to form THIS union. They lost a war.

That is right.

They lost.

 

[paperview]

Lincoln did not support Corwin. Your own source said he did not endorse it.

What you are saying is not true.

I never stated that he endorsed Dred Scott. He did support the Corwin Amendment.

Fine, he didn't officially endorse it, but the intention of my post, that Lincoln was willing to compromise on the slavery issue to avoid sucession remains. It's implications are clear.

Lincoln addressed the issue of the Corwin Amendment in March of 1861, in his inauguration. At that point, many states had already seceded.

A little Timeline for you, from the SC Convention forward:

December 20, 1860: South Carolina convention passes ordinance of secession.
December 24, 1860: Mississippi Senator Jefferson Davis introduces a "compromise" proposal which would effectively make slavery a national institution.
December 26, 1860: Major Anderson moves Federal garrison in Charleston, SC, from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter.
January 3, 1861: Georgia seizes Fort Pulaski. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 4, 1861: Alabama seizes U.S. arsenal at Mount Vernon. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 5, 1861: Alabama seizes Forts Morgan and Gaines. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 6, 1861: Florida seizes Apalachicola arsenal. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE ARSENAL BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 7, 1861: Florida seizes Fort Marion. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 8, 1861: Floridians try to seize Fort Barrancas but are chased off.
January 9, 1861: Mississippi secedes.

Star of the West fired on in Charleston Harbor <-- FIRING ON A SHIP - A CLEAR ACT OF WAR
THE STEAMSHIP "MARION." SEIZED BY THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA TO BE CONVERTED INTO A MAN-OF-WAR.
January 10, 1861: Florida secedes.

Louisiana seizes U.S. arsenal at Baton Rouge, as well as Forts Jackson and St. Philip.
January 11, 1861: Alabama secedes.

Louisiana seizes U.S. Marine Hospital.
January 14, 1861: Louisiana seizes Fort Pike. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 19, 1861: Georgia secedes.
January 26, 1861: Louisiana secedes.
January 28, 1861: Tennessee Resolutions in favor of Crittenden Compromise offered in Congress.
February 1, 1861: Texas secedes.
February 8, 1861: Provisional Constitution of the Confederacy adopted in Montgomery, AL.

Arkansas seizes U.S. Arsenal at Little Rock.
February 12, 1861: Arkansas seizes U.S. ordnance stores at Napoleon.
February 18, 1861: Jefferson Davis inaugurated as President of the Confederacy.
March 4, 1861: Abraham Lincoln inaugurated as 16th President of the United States.
March 21, 1861: "Cornerstone speech" delivered by Alexander Stephens. (This is where the Confederate V President lays it out clearly: Slavery is the Cornerstone of the Confederacy.)

April 12, 1861: Fort Sumter fired upon by Confederates.
THE WAR OFFICIALLY BEGINS.

 

[PredFan]

Some states didn't agree to form THIS union. They lost a war.

That is right.

They lost.

So you agree that your post is wrong. thanks.

 

[PredFan]

Lincoln did not support Corwin. Your own source said he did not endorse it.

What you are saying is not true.

Fine, he didn't officially endorse it, but the intention of my post, that Lincoln was willing to compromise on the slavery issue to avoid sucession remains. It's implications are clear.

Lincoln addressed the issue of the Corwin Amendment in March of 1861, in his inauguration. At that point, many states had already seceded.

A little Timeline for you, from the SC Convention forward:

December 20, 1860: South Carolina convention passes ordinance of secession.
December 24, 1860: Mississippi Senator Jefferson Davis introduces a "compromise" proposal which would effectively make slavery a national institution.
December 26, 1860: Major Anderson moves Federal garrison in Charleston, SC, from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter.
January 3, 1861: Georgia seizes Fort Pulaski. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 4, 1861: Alabama seizes U.S. arsenal at Mount Vernon. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 5, 1861: Alabama seizes Forts Morgan and Gaines. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 6, 1861: Florida seizes Apalachicola arsenal. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE ARSENAL BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 7, 1861: Florida seizes Fort Marion. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 8, 1861: Floridians try to seize Fort Barrancas but are chased off.
January 9, 1861: Mississippi secedes.

Star of the West fired on in Charleston Harbor <-- FIRING ON A SHIP - A CLEAR ACT OF WAR
THE STEAMSHIP "MARION." SEIZED BY THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA TO BE CONVERTED INTO A MAN-OF-WAR.
January 10, 1861: Florida secedes.

Louisiana seizes U.S. arsenal at Baton Rouge, as well as Forts Jackson and St. Philip.
January 11, 1861: Alabama secedes.

Louisiana seizes U.S. Marine Hospital.
January 14, 1861: Louisiana seizes Fort Pike. <---NOTE: THEY SEIZED THE FORT BEFORE THEY SECEDED.
January 19, 1861: Georgia secedes.
January 26, 1861: Louisiana secedes.
January 28, 1861: Tennessee Resolutions in favor of Crittenden Compromise offered in Congress.
February 1, 1861: Texas secedes.
February 8, 1861: Provisional Constitution of the Confederacy adopted in Montgomery, AL.

Arkansas seizes U.S. Arsenal at Little Rock.
February 12, 1861: Arkansas seizes U.S. ordnance stores at Napoleon.
February 18, 1861: Jefferson Davis inaugurated as President of the Confederacy.
March 4, 1861: Abraham Lincoln inaugurated as 16th President of the United States.
March 21, 1861: "Cornerstone speech" delivered by Alexander Stephens. (This is where the Confederate V President lays it out clearly: Slavery is the Cornerstone of the Confederacy.)

April 12, 1861: Fort Sumter fired upon by Confederates.
THE WAR OFFICIALLY BEGINS.

Thanks again for providing some interesting trivia which btw, in no way refutes what I am saying. Let me give you a little clue, at his inauguration, it wasnt the first time he addressed attempts to compromise to avoid sucession.

 

[Contumacious]

The first and foremost duty of the President is the preservation of the United States.

This is what Lincoln did.

Notions and talk about creating a powerful centralized government are nonsense and nothing more than bringing modern desires into a reading of history. The country is so polarized, and the people on this forum so locked up in their addiction to arguing ANYTHING, they will project their own feelings on ANYTHING!

The States have rights and responsibilities. Their responsibility is to to adhere to their pacts and sacred word when they agreed to form this Union. It is too late to back out now. Their rights are outlined in the Constitution.

For those people who think they can secede from the Union, or even want to, are cowards and morons.

You don't like your government? Then work to change it. Don't run away like sniveling little kids taking your ball and going home.

This country fragments and we will soon be bowing down to real dictators and despots. Its only a fool who thinks that separate states can stand alone against the world we live in today.

Exactly.

The Fouding Fathers had no right to deprive us of the privilege of being British Subjects and supporting the parasitic British Royalty.

.

 

[bripat9643]

Innocent! Greatest President in our history, no one even close.

Saw the movie btw....its an award winner....but you gotta know history to enjoy it.

You're a brainwashed moron.

 

[Darkwind]

The first and foremost duty of the President is the preservation of the United States.

This is what Lincoln did.

Notions and talk about creating a powerful centralized government are nonsense and nothing more than bringing modern desires into a reading of history. The country is so polarized, and the people on this forum so locked up in their addiction to arguing ANYTHING, they will project their own feelings on ANYTHING!

The States have rights and responsibilities. Their responsibility is to to adhere to their pacts and sacred word when they agreed to form this Union. It is too late to back out now. Their rights are outlined in the Constitution.

For those people who think they can secede from the Union, or even want to, are cowards and morons.

You don't like your government? Then work to change it. Don't run away like sniveling little kids taking your ball and going home.

This country fragments and we will soon be bowing down to real dictators and despots. Its only a fool who thinks that separate states can stand alone against the world we live in today.

Exactly.

The Fouding Fathers had no right to deprive us of the privilege of being British Subjects and supporting the parasitic British Royalty.

.

You are closer to the truth than you know. Until we declared independence, the people of this country thought of themselves as British subjects.

However, it does not matter. We won that war and the States later agreed to enter into a Union.

The first duty of ANY President is to preserve and protect this union, against all enemies, FOREIGN and DOMESTIC.

That is what he did.

It is an exercise in worthlessness to apply today's hyper-partisan mores onto people who made choices over 140 years ago.

I do not consider people who lose elections and wanting to secede from their country as having an moral clarity or even being on the right side of the issue.

I consider it cowardice that they would rather run away than fight for that they claim to love so much.

 

[Votto]

The first and foremost duty of the President is the preservation of the United States.

This is what Lincoln did.

.

I reject the notion that preserving the Executive or even legislative federal government defines preserving the United States. After all, if despots gain control the only way to preserve the United States would be to give them the boot.

So when one arrests citiznens without due process as Licoln did, or throws Japanese Americans in jail as FDR did, or passes the NDAA like Obama did which now gives government the legal means to arrest citizens without due process, then what are we to preserve here?

 

[Darkwind]

Some states didn't agree to form THIS union. They lost a war.

That is right.

They lost.

So you agree that your post is wrong. thanks.

You know better than that.

The loser concedes to the winner in war.

Now, I have already expended to much time on this topic.