CDZ A Very Interesting Video of the South as 'Other'

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by JimBowie1958, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    The Southern states seceded from the United States and formed their own new nation; thus for the entirety of any given state's membership in the CSA, those states and their citizens did not construe themselves as part of the United States. The consequence of secession is that the USA saw itself, must as the English did in the Revolutionary War, as crushing a rebellion. The CSA, in contrast, saw itself as securing its status as a new nation.

    The fact of the matter is the South lost. Because it lost, the truth of the matter is that United States did not invade anything. Rather it sent men and materiel to its southern region to subdue treasonous insurrectionists. Had the CSA won the war, then it'd be appropriate to attest to the North/USA having invaded.

    The crime of treason might be covered with a counterfeit varnish of patriotism, so that the precipitators of the rebellion might go down in history hand-in-hand with the defenders of the (US) Government.
    -- Gen. George Thomas


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    Aside:
    It is worth noting that in D.C., the only statue honoring a Confederate is that of Albert Pike. He, however, is commemorated as a Freemason, not as a Confederate officer. The words engraved on the memorial describe the multitalented Pike (1809-1891) thusly: AUTHOR, POET, SCHOLAR, SOLDIER, JURIST, ORATOR, PHILANTHROPIST and PHILOSOPHER. Pike was a strict nativist. He joined the Know-Nothing Party — those anti-Catholic, anti-immigrant agitators — but left when he found the party’s support of slavery insufficiently intense.

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    At the outbreak of the Civil War, the transplanted Yankee supported the Confederacy and was made a brigadier general in its army. Pike seems not to have been a good soldier. He oversaw a regiment of Native Americans but was unable to control them at the Battle of Pea Ridge in 1862. Some of the men under his command committed atrocities, scalping fallen Union soldiers. After further run-ins with his superiors in Richmond, Pike was reprimanded and resigned his position.

    After the war -- and a pardon from President Andrew Johnson -- Pike returned to work as a lawyer and writer. He moved to Washington in 1868 and threw himself wholeheartedly into the minutiae of Freemasonry, an organization he had been involved with since 1850.

    It is Pike’s Masonic activities — he wrote frequently on the topic and served as Grand Commander of the Supreme Council, Southern Jurisdiction — that prompted the construction of the memorial in 1901. The monument, with statues by sculptor Gaetano Trentanove, was paid for by the Masons. It was said of Pike, “He found Freemasonry in a log cabin and left it in a Temple.” His body is interred in the House of the Temple, headquarters of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, at 16th and S streets NW, where there is a museum in his honor and the contents of his library are kept.

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    (The first place I ever lived on my own was an apartment on the 6th floor of that apartment building you see in the photo above. I liked it because the balconies -- the jutting-out parts of the exterior -- are enclosed and because there were all sorts of things to do within two minutes walking distance. I only lived there for a year.)
     
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  2. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    Yes. Only one state had seceded by January, 4 or 5 more as a result of Buchanan's attempt to blockade and collect tariffs at Charleston, and the rest didn't secede until Lincoln decided to copy Buchanan and force a war. It was Lincoln wanting massive corporate welfare programs for the Midwest and northern states, and changing up the entire Federal govt.s revenue stream to put the payments for all that welfare onto the South.
     
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  3. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    In any case, all the current up roar over statues is just a bunch of fraudulent nonsense involving tards with no real issues pretending to have principles and moral superiority when they have none; sniveling about Confederate statues has all the modern moral relevance of denouncing the Hittites invading Egypt. they had nothing to do with it, and there is zero evidence they would have been 'anti-slavery' if they had been there themselves. They're just attention whoring phonies.
     
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  4. Windparadox
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    Windparadox VIP Member

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    `
    `

    What part did religion play in the civil war. Neither film really addressed that.
     
  5. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    Well....
     
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  6. Windparadox
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    Windparadox VIP Member

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    `
    Well, next time I'll make sure to exclude anything you have to say. For all others, "in your own words," Thanks.
     
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  7. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    ??? Did you click on the link?
    • Did you not want to know what role religion played?
    • Did I not point you to multiple sources that provide credible answers to exactly the question you asked?
     
  8. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    So might makes right in your world, hmm? If Russia invaded the Baltic states again and annexed them, it would be legal because it would prove that Russia somehow has that right?

    Dont mistake my meaning here; it is good that the Union won the war, but I think that must be based on the threat the Confederacy mad to Union industry by adopting a policy of free trade and open borders that would have made it impossible for the union to maintain its tariff system and the leaders of the Confederacy knew this. They intentionally were trying to undermine the Union economically and thus obligated a Northern invasion.

    The abolition of slavery with the EP brought God onto their side.

    Yes, I have been there and said a rosary for the Freemasons and Mr Pike that his soul might find peace and Freemasonry could return to its former influence within our nation. It is much of the social binding that has helped form this united nation from the manifold denominations and ethnicities that compose it.

    I once attempted to join the Freemasons, but my wife (a devout Catholic) refused to hear of it. So I had to cancel those plans.

    the Freemasons are an admirable organization though they are much slandered.
     
  9. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    Look at the years involved and what I said. Nothing there said Sherman was humane. Effective but not humane. He also has 0% to do with the cause of the war. I don't understand why you brought that up as a response.

    IMO slavery was the cause of the war. I did not start to debate how it was fought. If you want to start another topic on that you can, or we can switch gears.
     
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  10. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    Insofar as I am not the topic of discussion for this thread, nor should I be, I will not answer the question noted above, for whether "might makes right in [my] world" is really of no matter for this line of discussion, except insofar as your positing it has the potential to shift the rhetorical focus to me and my world and away from the actions of the leaders of the USA and CSA.

    That is an inference you made regarding what I wrote. That I wrote and believe what I wrote re: the matter of the Confederacy and its defeat does not mean I also, by necessity or happenstance, have a core principle that equates to or devolves to "might makes right." Be that as it may, there will surely be situations whereof one can read my brief remarks about one or another aspect of of a matter and abstract from those isolated statements that I ascribe to the "might makes right" principle. Quite simply, the remarks I made about how the nations involved in the American Civil War aren't about me. They aren't made to express or imply anything having to do with or without my principles.
     
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