CDZ A Very Interesting Video of the South as 'Other'

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by JimBowie1958, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Dont take it personally, Xelor. You are one of my favorite liberals here.

    It was merely a rhetorical question.
     
  2. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    Very little, except among a small faction of abolitionists that were Calvinists and opposed slavery for decades because of their religions. the bulk of abolitionists were more in the mode of Lincoln and white nationalists, they wanted to ship them all back to Africa, not 'free' them, which was the mainstream for abolitionists, not religious reasons. The Republicans ran different campaigns in the midwest than they did in the eastern states, which is why one can easily find contradictions and conflicting rhetoric. Lincoln in fact lost votes in the 1862 mid-term elections because midwestern voters thought he was leaning too far toward the anti-slavery platform; the only thing that saved him a slim margin in Congress was his private army controlling the ballot boxes in the border states and parts of Ohio and Pennsylvania. The 1864 campaign was pretty much the same, with Seward in New York running different rhetoric than the Republcians were spouting in the Midwestern states.

    There are several books on this out there, written before PC Nazis came to control academia, and I posted some essays in the History Forum covering the economic issues from 1820 up to the civil war, and beyond re labor issues and mass immigration's effects; both sides took advantage of immigrant ignorance of American geography in their claims during campaigns.
     
  3. Picaro
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    Picaro Gold Member

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    Good for you; you will save lots of time for yourself.
     
  4. MizMolly
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    MizMolly Silver Member

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    I have lived in the South since 1973. You do not see Confederate flags waving nor any obsession with the Confederacy. Most of the discussions on slavery, the Confederacy, etc. are done on these message boards.
     
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  5. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    I believe that you don't or haven't. Others, huge quantities of them, do and they do while just driving around.

    Perhaps you might sometimes allow someone else drive so you can safely avert your eyes away from the road and the traffic on it and see the flora, fauna, and among other things, Confederate flags flying?
     
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  6. bodecea
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    bodecea Diamond Member

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    If Guam then fired on U.S. Soldiers on U.S. soil, absolutely.
     
  7. MizMolly
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    MizMolly Silver Member

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    It is not the norm, you can find Confederate flag in the North too Pleasantville, Iowa. 526589026.jpg



    .
     
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  8. Xelor
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    Xelor Gold Member

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    I hope you're right. I suspect you are right to the extent that fewer than 50%+1 of Southerners display Confederate flag images/objects. That said, my experience doesn't suggest that it's so far afield from "the norm" -- I'd say a large plurality of Southerners display Confederate imagery -- that one won't readily come by individuals and organizations displaying the Confederate flag.

    For example, I've yet to take a drive into or in the South and not at least once see a Confederate flag somewhere -- flying at someone's house/yard or on a bumper or other place on a vehicle are the most common places I see them. For me, that's nearly 60 years of driving in and around the south for one-off trips -- business, vacation, or visit family -- to come 2017 still have not have had so much as one trip were I saw not one Confederate flag. Contrast that with D.C., where I live and the Cape Cod area where I have a summer home. I go weeks and months without ever seeing a Confederate flag or even other Confederate-ish imagery.

    (And, no, I'm not including souvenir businesses' merchandise on offer. I'm referring to merely going about my business and lo and behold there appears before me a Confederate flag.)

    Be that as it may, your initial claim was that one does not "[in the South], see Confederate flags waving nor any obsession with the Confederacy." However many Confederate flags one observes in the North has nothing to do with that.

    I don't know what is the norm re: the incidence/probability of observing a Confederate flag in the South. Some of what I know:
    • 2015 News story about sales of Confederate flag items:
      • "Somebody in Rhode Island ordered in 50 Confederate (lapel) pins," said Kerry McCoy, owner of Flag and Banner in Little Rock, Arkansas. The order came in on Monday, when Gov. Nikki Haley of South Carolina called for the removal of the Confederate flag from the grounds of the state capitol.
      • Freddie Rich, owner of Rebel Store in North Carolina, said his sales of Confederate items is "unbelievable right now. This is something I never envisioned." Rich said he shipped out 200 Confederate flags in the last 24 hours, compared to his usual sales of a dozen flags a day.
    • 2017 News stories about sales of Confederate flags specifically
      • Belinda Kennedy, owner of Alabama Flag and Banner in Huntsville, Ala., said the company, which sells American flags and manufactures Confederate flags, sold around 12,000 [Confederate] flags last year.
      • Who's buying the flags? Hard to say, but according to a 2015 map created by Jody Sieradzki of Dadaviz and shared by The Washington Post, people in Virginia, Georgia, Illinois, North Carolina and Texas did more Google Shopping searches for Confederate than American flags.
    • 2017 Redneck Games

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    Aside:
    At the end of the day, when I see a Confederate flag willfully displayed by someone -- on a pole, on their ass or lapel, etc. -- what I know is that they cannot be doing so out of patriotism for the United States of America because the simple fact is that the Confederate States of America (CSA) was the nation that used that flag/symbol, and the CSA, not the USA, lost the Civil War. The CSA is no more, yet supposedly American citizens with willful pride display the CSA's imagery.

    Insofar as displaying "Stars and Bars" cannot be patriotic toward the USA, folks who display it must necessarily be expressing their affinity for something having to do with the CSA and what it stood for. Some will say it today represents "Southern pride."

    What the hell is "Southern pride" such that it is not, as slavery/racism are, inextricably linked to CSA/Confederacy
    • is distinguished from the pride of people hailing from or living in any other region of the U.S. and that is unique to the South?
    • necessitates associating it with the flag of the CSA/Confederacy?
    New Englanders are proud to be New Englanders. Ditto folks form other regions of the country. You what flags/symbols they use? I don't really know. I see bumper stickers about crabs and lovers in MD and VA. I see flags depicting patriots in New England.

    The South today isn’t what it was in the 1860s -- predominantly poor, rural, isolated. The modern South is the fastest growing region in the US; it is the most populated, nearly doubling the size of the West and Northeast combined with over 117 million residents. The South has a thriving economy, its GDP dwarfing both the Northeast and the West.

    There's plenty to be proud of. Why tarnish that pride by conflating it with, or risking that others construe one as doing so, the Confederacy.​
     
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  9. MizMolly
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    MizMolly Silver Member

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    I should rephrase my posting, I did not mean you never see Confederate flags flown, it is just not very common, or I dismiss them. It isn't a big deal to me. Of course, there will be more Confederate flags in the South, that is what the Confederacy stood for. Ironically, the KKK is known for this flag, however, they also fly the American Flag, good ole red white and blue.As far as people being proud to be Southern, it is a heritage, not about slavery. People like the charm and Southern hospitality you do not see up North. You see "Black Pride" why? You don't chose your race, why are you proud of something you can't control?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  10. Correll
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    Correll Platinum Member

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    You are lying.


    The media would blame Trump for not pulling the soldiers and you would swallow it like a two dollar whore.
     
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