A Sane Discourse on the Lack of Reason On Both the Left and Right

[Annie]

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/001128.html

In a way, it's sort of a decent argument for everyone to shut up and listen. The following is an excerpt, it's a long piece:

Liberalism, defined conservatively....
It's becoming very difficult to discuss politics at all without being shouted at or called names, or being lumped into one or more odious categories (usually by self-appointed spokespeople for one category or another).

Any discussion of politics is hamstrung by what can only be called fanatic devotion to a showdown between an increasingly shrill left, and an increasingly "religious" (a term I use for lack of any alternative, save "fundamentalist") right. This showdown is motivated by the desire of both loud minorities to make America "choose" between two sides the majority don't wish to choose: fundamentalism or Marxism. The 9/11 attacks initially united most Americans, but the seeds of the present nastiness were planted right at the beginning, when defensive leftists as as well as defensive fundamentalists blamed America for the attack. (Not surprising, considering that the ferocious fundamentalism of the America's new enemies was matched only by their slick utilization of anti-American multiculturalism.)

It has been all too easy for both parties to go with this flow. Thus, we are increasingly seeing the emergence of the shrill Party of God versus the equally shrill Party of Michael Moore -- both of which, by their incessant noise, make it as easy as possible to mutually characterize the two loudest noises as the only two choices.

That Americans don't want to be run by the Party of God or the Party of Marx/Moore/Foucault is not only irrelevant, it's become an opportunity, because when the majority is turned off, the minorities run amok.

 

[5stringJeff]

Interesting. Not sure I agree with his premise that the Right is drifting towards arresting everyone that looks at porn, but a thought-provoking article nonetheless.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Interesting. Not sure I agree with his premise that the Right is drifting towards arresting everyone that looks at porn, but a thought-provoking article nonetheless.

That's the 'far right' think of some of the discussions on the religion forum. Think 700 Club. ~shudder~

 

[5stringJeff]

I can't understand why people want to curtail liberties in such cases. I mean, I personally believe that looking at porn is a sin, and I avoid doing so, but I think it is a Christian's responsibility to steer individuals away from porn based on a personal decision, not based on possible jail time.

I am no fan of the hard Religious Right. There's too much libertarian in me.

 

[Annie]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
I can't understand why people want to curtail liberties in such cases. I mean, I personally believe that looking at porn is a sin, and I avoid doing so, but I think it is a Christian's responsibility to steer individuals away from porn based on a personal decision, not based on possible jail time.

I am no fan of the hard Religious Right. There's too much libertarian in me.

We represent the GOP, they represent something else. Just like MM does not really reflect democrats and they make a mistake in embracing him.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

I liked the article. Very good read!

 

[DKSuddeth]

i have an issue with some of these things, but then again I have been saying a long time now that the rift is growing ever wider and we're practically being forced to choose sides, especially with the 'religious' or 'christian' push in everything we do nowadays.

For instance, Jeff said "but I think it is a Christian's responsibility to steer individuals away from porn", but tell me, why is it anyones responsibility to steer anyone away from anything that isn't a criminal act? Why are we allowing the 'religious movement' dictate our lives and rewrite history as they see fit without calling them, and the politicians that are supported by them, on their actions, which is to gather more power over the people?

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
For instance, Jeff said "but I think it is a Christian's responsibility to steer individuals away from porn", but tell me, why is it anyones responsibility to steer anyone away from anything that isn't a criminal act? Why are we allowing the 'religious movement' dictate our lives and rewrite history as they see fit without calling them, and the politicians that are supported by them, on their actions, which is to gather more power over the people? [/B]

Duane, what I mean is that on a personal level, Christians have a moral responsibility to 1) stay away from pornography themselves, and 2) tell others about their beliefs in such a way that they will be persuaded to cling to Christian morals and thus shun pornography as well. I think this is a much better solution than outlawing porn as some on the far RR want to do.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Duane, what I mean is that on a personal level, Christians have a moral responsibility to 1) stay away from pornography themselves, and 2) tell others about their beliefs in such a way that they will be persuaded to cling to Christian morals and thus shun pornography as well. I think this is a much better solution than outlawing porn as some on the far RR want to do.

I see what you mean, but now I have another question. How far do you go in your proselytization?

 

[menewa]

I'm glad you posted this KA.

I've been dwelling on this issue for a while in my own mind. For simplification, we like to place people in one category or another. Liberal and Conservative serve as quick and convenient categories.

However, just in the short time I've spent on the USMB, I quickly realized how many more shades of political leanings actually exists. Look at the differences b/t DK and Bully or between Bid D and gop_jeff. Although we categorize them as liberals and conservatives, respectively, in reality, there are vast gulfs of differences between how these posters respond to various political, social and religious issues.

This lib vs. con battle works to the detriment of our Republic. It makes us feel as if we have only two sides to choose from. When, in reality, we are much more complex than that and we need political leaders and political discourse that reflects this complexity in voter thought.

 

[phadras]

descibing the hard left as Marxist.. However I'd put it as Marxist/Leninist.. I'm a conservative who happens to believe one should leave their religion out of politics.. But there can be no doubt that for almost 400 years the European colonists and the subsequent United States where founded on Judeo-Chrisitian values and understanding.. I'm for morality but not if it impunes someone's constitutional rights... Heck I believe most Christians, not Patty Robertson and his bunch, are exemplary citizens. It's the left that now seems to have a problem with religion of any kind; 'cept Islam... I suspect it is because they simply can't abide a moral system which states that somes acts are inherently immoral and against the will of God... Gives them a guilty conscience for the immoral acts they commit...

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I see what you mean, but now I have another question. How far do you go in your proselytization?

I know this isn't directed at me, but what the heck.

The bible tells us that if we are not accepted to shake the dust from our feet and move on.

Make sense?

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by HGROKIT
I know this isn't directed at me, but what the heck.

The bible tells us that if we are not accepted to shake the dust from our feet and move on.

Make sense?

I like that. It should be taken to heart more often.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I see what you mean, but now I have another question. How far do you go in your proselytization?

There's only so far one can go. I can tell you all about Christ, my beliefs about Him, etc., but it is your choice to believe. I certainly don't believe one can force someone else to believe something, religious or otherwise.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by menewa
However, just in the short time I've spent on the USMB, I quickly realized how many more shades of political leanings actually exists. Look at the differences b/t DK and Bully or between Bid D and gop_jeff. Although we categorize them as liberals and conservatives, respectively, in reality, there are vast gulfs of differences between how these posters respond to various political, social and religious issues.

This lib vs. con battle works to the detriment of our Republic. It makes us feel as if we have only two sides to choose from. When, in reality, we are much more complex than that and we need political leaders and political discourse that reflects this complexity in voter thought. [/B]

I think I can safely say that's the first time I've been compared to Big D.

But I agree, menewa, it's quite complex, and the fringes from both sides tend to be the loudest precisely because they are in such a minority.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
There's only so far one can go. I can tell you all about Christ, my beliefs about Him, etc., but it is your choice to believe. I certainly don't believe one can force someone else to believe something, religious or otherwise.

Agreed.

With freedom of speech, one can get up and yell on a soapbox at the top of his lungs as well and nobody is required to listen.

In addition, if an athiest wants to yell there is no God, a Christian does not have to listen.

Anyone thinking religion is being "forced" by free speech needs to grow up.

The reality is that they are afraid about the fact that they subconciously know God exists and are GNASHING THEIR TEETH.

:cof:

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
I think I can safely say that's the first time I've been compared to Big D.

I think its because of the differences between you two that you were compared to BigD

kind of like comparing me to Bully.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by NewGuy


The reality is that they are afraid about the fact that they subcouncously know God exists and are GNASHING THEIR TEETH.

:cof:

one of these days you'll accept that fact that I'm god and I do exist. :

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
one of these days you'll accept that fact that I'm god and I do exist. :

Now THAT should have been properly attributed to Lanyce!

 

[HGROKIT]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Now THAT should have been properly attributed to Lanyce!

I would imaging she is somewhere gnashing her teeth over that one!