A rebuttal to the 'European invasion' ~ the Diaspora

[teddyearp]

In many threads it is always claimed that the current (Jewish) inhabitants of the State of Israel are just invaders from Europe; that these Europeans are not descendants of the original country of Israel/Judea/Samaria. That somehow all of the Jews just disappeared and/or converted to other religions (which many did, not denying that), but to say that the rest of the Jews just vanished into thin air defies all common sense. It is well established fact that not all the Jews left Israel nor converted.

So here is perhaps what really happened from the Florida Center for Instructional Technology (part of the University of South Florida):

Jewish Displacement

Now I implore you to read the whole thing. This makes much more sense and refutes the claim that the Jews who came from Europe are nothing but 'converts'. And there is more. The dialog goes back and forth, but this part stuck out to me:

Beginning in the mid-eighth century, along the southern and western rim of the Mediterranean Sea and east beyond the Caspian Sea, Jews were widely tolerated and accepted under Islamic rule. The Muslims granted Jews and Christians exemption from military service, the right to their own courts of law, and a guarantee of the safety of their property. Islamic territory included present day Iran, Iraq, Turkey, western Russia, the Saudi Arabian peninsula, northern Africa, and, in Europe, Spain, Sicily, and Sardinia. Jews experienced a Golden Age. Jewish poets, scholars, scientists, statesmen, philosophers flourished within and were an integral part of the Arab civilization. For hundreds of years, Jews and Arabs lived together in peace and with mutual respect.

Now, I also will admit that I and many others are sick and tired of the same old, same old digging up the past; hell we seem to debate the past all the way back to Abram at times, lol. But I am just asking for some sincere look at this more plausible history of what happened to the Jews from the destruction of the Second Temple to now.

Thank you.

 

[rylah]

In many threads it is always claimed that the current (Jewish) inhabitants of the State of Israel are just invaders from Europe; that these Europeans are not descendants of the original country of Israel/Judea/Samaria. That somehow all of the Jews just disappeared and/or converted to other religions (which many did, not denying that), but to say that the rest of the Jews just vanished into thin air defies all common sense. It is well established fact that not all the Jews left Israel nor converted.

So here is perhaps what really happened from the Florida Center for Instructional Technology (part of the University of South Florida):

Jewish Displacement

Now I implore you to read the whole thing. This makes much more sense and refutes the claim that the Jews who came from Europe are nothing but 'converts'. And there is more. The dialog goes back and forth, but this part stuck out to me:

Beginning in the mid-eighth century, along the southern and western rim of the Mediterranean Sea and east beyond the Caspian Sea, Jews were widely tolerated and accepted under Islamic rule. The Muslims granted Jews and Christians exemption from military service, the right to their own courts of law, and a guarantee of the safety of their property. Islamic territory included present day Iran, Iraq, Turkey, western Russia, the Saudi Arabian peninsula, northern Africa, and, in Europe, Spain, Sicily, and Sardinia. Jews experienced a Golden Age. Jewish poets, scholars, scientists, statesmen, philosophers flourished within and were an integral part of the Arab civilization. For hundreds of years, Jews and Arabs lived together in peace and with mutual respect.

Now, I also will admit that I and many others are sick and tired of the same old, same old digging up the past; hell we seem to debate the past all the way back to Abram at times, lol. But I am just asking for some sincere look at this more plausible history of what happened to the Jews from the destruction of the Second Temple to now.

Thank you.

Yeah all of us (how many write here?) know the usual arguments and links.
I have taken interest in researching specific historic families like Dayan, Shaltiel, Avarbanel and others that claim to keep a historic record of their families.

 

[teddyearp]

Yeah all of us (how many write here?) know the usual arguments and links.
I have taken interest in researching specific historic families like Dayan, Shaltiel, Avarbanel and others that claim to keep a historic record of their families.

I would be interested to read what you have found.

 

[rylah]

Yeah all of us (how many write here?) know the usual arguments and links.
I have taken interest in researching specific historic families like Dayan, Shaltiel, Avarbanel and others that claim to keep a historic record of their families.

I would be interested to read what you have found.

First of all, I'm not sure how much we can say, talking about families, on a political forum.
So I'll talk about the culture of houses and courts in the Jewish communities. Specifically about the Nassiim and Reysh Galuta courts.

I've found 4 available levels of information:
1. Jewish community structure -specific traits natural to small communities. And the basic information, like what You've posted that people commonly know. Basically there's a deep memory, even among modern secular Jews, that it was always, known, and WELL, both in and outside of the community. Plenty of cultural examples, and facts of life. Only now they pretend to have amnesia.
2. Heritage about certain houses - history of Rabbinic courts from most distant diaspora, and Israel.
The most interesting thing here is to understand how community leaders, the Nesiim and Reysh Galuta moved and how other leaders were reasigned to replace people in the most distant countries.
3.Documents from old Jewish sources - responsa, specific works on that subject, demographic lists within the community, family trees etc.
4.Documents from outside sources. - written in any language, preferably signed in Hebrew.
For example a contract written in Spanish with a single Hebrew signature, or written in English and copied in Hebrew:

With all that said, I should mention that my research is focused primarily on the House of David.
Not so much to post in this forum though.

 

[rylah]

There's a certain legal discussion in the Mishna, about possession of land. It brings an example to justify a period of 3 years. So that a the person who lives in Spain and owns land in Judea, Galilee or Trans Jordan has the time to appear and take possessor to a court.

I don't think this law was written about Roman or Greek soldiers, but a certain community, ways of communication and routes of movement.