A rape, and a likely rape that did not happen, a difference between two countries...

[Vagabond63]

So in your world, the ONLY way to stop a rape is by shooting the rapist?

Heavens no.

Keeping Muslims from infesting European countries would be more effective.

Or Americans? On a recent tour of Germany, Belgium and France, I was surprised to note there were about 3 times as many Americans around as there were Muslims/"darkies"/"middle easterners"/etc. Still, given who's "leading" your country at the moment, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. Still by the look of things that situation might be changing soon, so I expect they'll all go home soon. Congratulations Democrats!

 

[2aguy]

You see more planned mass shootings...stopped not by your gun control laws but by pure dumb luck...and you think that is a good trend......? Really?

No-one has ever said there would not be lunatics out there planning mass shootings; the purpose of the ban on handguns was to make it as difficult as possible (if not outright impossible) for such people to carry out their fantasies. Nor has anyone ever asserted that gun control laws alone would stop determined and resourceful people getting hold of guns. Our society does not have a “gun culture”; we don’t see guns as solutions to all our problems, it’s a sign of being civilised.

Our mass shootings have gone up as our families have been wrecked by the welfare state, and social media creates a mirror for these shooters...

Oh please, you don’t have any evidence that a welfare state wrecks families; welfare if anything, helps to keep families together in the UK. As for social media; we’ve heard that sort of thing before, “Dungeons and Dragons” will turn kids into Devil worshippers, violent computer games turn kids into psychopaths, etc.

don't worry, as I showed you, you and your country are on your way to the same thing…

You’ve shown me nothing of the sort, all you’ve done is make wild claims and trawled through the media to find any reference to gun use in the UK and then blown these incidents out of all proportion to forward your agenda. I for one am bored with your constant paranoid fearmongering.

Your society banned guns for law abiding people...the result: More gun crime, more violent crime, making Britain more violent than the rest of Europe, and the U.S....congratulations...you women cannot protect themselves from rape, your seniors are the prey of any young male who wants their pension money...good for you....and your luck will run out, and you will also have mass shootings....

Welfare destroys families...it allows young teenage girls to have children without a husband and father to raise their young males into responsible adult men...you are already seeing this in your violent crime rates... And no, Dungeon and Dragons is not the same as Facebook and Twitter...or the 24/7 news cycle where mass shooters become legends in their own minds

Here...from your own press....

Yorkshire sees highest number of crimes for any county in Britain according to figures

“In particular we’re shocked to see an increase of nearly 30 per cent in weapon possession offences between 2016 and 2017.”

Crimes covered violent and sexual offences, vehicle theft, public order offences, possession of weapons, shoplifting, personal theft, drug crimes, robbery, criminal damage, bicycle thefts and anti-social behaviour.


========

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .


========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”



Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.

 

[2aguy]

No....shooting the rapist is the best way…

Really? You advocate women pointing guns at men (or women for that matter) who come on to them, and they’re not interested? Most rapes (90% in the UKhttps://rapecrisis.org.uk/statistics.php) are attempted/carried out by people the victim knows, often when both victim and perpetrator are drunk; not sure how a gun would be of any use in such circumstances.Other methods to avoid being attacked is simply not to put yourself in circumstances where an attack is possible; simply being streetwise.

A gun pointed at any rapist kills the mood.....so tell me....do you prefer that women be raped in parks and in alleys? Or would it be better if they could stop the rape by using a gun?

Yes.....walking to the bus or through the park.....they deserved to get raped? Yes...blame the victim.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

So in your world, the ONLY way to stop a rape is by shooting the rapist?

Heavens no.

Keeping Muslims from infesting European countries would be more effective.

Or Americans? On a recent tour of Germany, Belgium and France, I was surprised to note there were about 3 times as many Americans around as there were Muslims/"darkies"/"middle easterners"/etc. Still, given who's "leading" your country at the moment, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. Still by the look of things that situation might be changing soon, so I expect they'll all go home soon. Congratulations Democrats!

Americans are not the ones responsible for the explosion in rapes in western Europe, you moron.

 

[2aguy]

Here, twit....the research...on the CDC 1.1 million number....

Finally, thank you. Very interesting, except for the fact that even your source states that this figure is an estimate, a "best guess" based on telephone surveys of around 5000 people. It's not a fact, it's not proof and it's not necessarily reliable, given that a brief search about the Kleck survey finds many other sources who disagree with his findings.

Sorry, the jury is still out on this one, so continually repeating this 1.1million mantra as fact undermines your argument and makes you look ridiculous.

I listed about a dozen different studies on self defense with a gun, from private and government researchers..... you have to tap dance a lot to get around that research, but you do.....



Yep.....Kleck is just one of many......then you have the CDC.....just recently in 2013 under obama, and the Department of Justice that tried to refute Kleck, and failed...as did the CDC so they hid their research for 23 years.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************

 

[2aguy]

So in your world, the ONLY way to stop a rape is by shooting the rapist?

Heavens no.

Keeping Muslims from infesting European countries would be more effective.

Or Americans? On a recent tour of Germany, Belgium and France, I was surprised to note there were about 3 times as many Americans around as there were Muslims/"darkies"/"middle easterners"/etc. Still, given who's "leading" your country at the moment, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. Still by the look of things that situation might be changing soon, so I expect they'll all go home soon. Congratulations Democrats!

Trump hasn't raped anyone...but the European fan favorite, bill clinton even raped a British woman when he was at Oxford...and the democrat party just voted in several women beaters and rapists.....keith ellison, girlfriend beater...and bob menendez....rapist of under age girls trapped in sex trafficking......

 

[flewism]

 

[Dogmaphobe]

it’s a sign of being civilised.

.

You are on record as supporting the mass murder of Jewish athletes and have the utter temerity to talk about being civilized?

 

[Vagabond63]

Your society banned guns for law abiding people...the result: More gun crime, more violent crime, making Britain more violent than the rest of Europe, and the U.S....congratulations...you women cannot protect themselves from rape, your seniors are the prey of any young male who wants their pension money...good for you....and your luck will run out, and you will also have mass shootings....

This statement is inaccurate on so many levels it’s difficult to know where to begin, but here goes.

• We did not ban guns for law-abiding people, we banned ownership of handguns and semi-automatic rifles. Currently there are 1.3 million licenced shotguns in the UK, approximately 1 gun for every 64 people if you prefer. On top of that there are over 500,000 licenced firearms in private hands (“firearms” include any gun that’s not a shotgun.) So, your opening premise is inaccurate.
• Since 1996 the rate of violent crime (including gun and sexual) has decreased year on year in the UK until 2008, when the world wide financial crisis hit. Some criminologists postulate that the rise in poverty caused by the crisis and the subsequent “austerity” measures implemented in the Uk by the Tories in 2010, have had an impact in driving crime rates upwards. Throughout the whole period of decline in violent crime the “gun ban” made no difference, so your second premise is inaccurate.
• 90% of rapes in the UK involve people who know each other. One of the enduring myths regarding rape is that women are able to avoid rape by ‘fighting off’ the rapist. The facts dispute this; many people who are sexually attacked are unable to move or protest due to fear, shock or because they are incapacitated, guns are useless in these circumstances. Even given the fact that if all women and old people carried guns and as 2aguy keeps saying, criminals are easily able to get guns, what’s to stop the criminal “getting the drop” on the victim, disarming them, and committing the crime anyway; with the added bonus they would acquire another gun in the process. 2aguy’s premise would merely serve to make a bad situation worse.
• Mass shootings in the UK since 1996? 1. Mass shootings in the USA since 1996? 76 35 Years of Mass Shootings in the U.S. in One Chart. Gun control works for us in the UK, end of story.

 

[Vagabond63]

it’s a sign of being civilised.

.

You are on record as supporting the mass murder of Jewish athletes and have the utter temerity to talk about being civilized?

Only a moron would have the "temerity" (that's a big word for you, did you look it up in a Thesaurus?) to interpret my comment about double standards regarding Iran and Israel when both countries plan and carry out state sponsored assassinations against people they consider terrorists as supporting mass murder of anyone. Your stupidity and bigotry beggar belief.

 

[Vagabond63]

So in your world, the ONLY way to stop a rape is by shooting the rapist?

Heavens no.

Keeping Muslims from infesting European countries would be more effective.

Or Americans? On a recent tour of Germany, Belgium and France, I was surprised to note there were about 3 times as many Americans around as there were Muslims/"darkies"/"middle easterners"/etc. Still, given who's "leading" your country at the moment, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. Still by the look of things that situation might be changing soon, so I expect they'll all go home soon. Congratulations Democrats!

Americans are not the ones responsible for the explosion in rapes in western Europe, you moron.

Well, yes you are as it happens. American foreign policy in the Middle East, supporting and enabling brutal Islamist and Zionist regimes and destabilising countries like Iraq and Syria have created a mass migration problem and Europe is left cleaning up your mess. Maybe “Trumpelstiltskin” is right, pulling out of interfering in the rest of the world is the way forward; the phrase “Yankee go home!” may start to be heard in more places around the world again.

 

[Vagabond63]

View attachment 227319

Thanks for posting that picture, it encapsulates 2aguy's argument very well, women may just as well carry pink BB guns, for all the good they would do; at least the whistle might attact the attention of a passing police officer.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Your society banned guns for law abiding people...the result: More gun crime, more violent crime, making Britain more violent than the rest of Europe, and the U.S....congratulations...you women cannot protect themselves from rape, your seniors are the prey of any young male who wants their pension money...good for you....and your luck will run out, and you will also have mass shootings....

This statement is inaccurate on so many levels it’s difficult to know where to begin, but here goes.

• We did not ban guns for law-abiding people, we banned ownership of handguns and semi-automatic rifles. Currently there are 1.3 million licenced shotguns in the UK, approximately 1 gun for every 64 people if you prefer. On top of that there are over 500,000 licenced firearms in private hands (“firearms” include any gun that’s not a shotgun.) So, your opening premise is inaccurate.
• Since 1996 the rate of violent crime (including gun and sexual) has decreased year on year in the UK until 2008, when the world wide financial crisis hit. Some criminologists postulate that the rise in poverty caused by the crisis and the subsequent “austerity” measures implemented in the Uk by the Tories in 2010, have had an impact in driving crime rates upwards. Throughout the whole period of decline in violent crime the “gun ban” made no difference, so your second premise is inaccurate.
• 90% of rapes in the UK involve people who know each other. One of the enduring myths regarding rape is that women are able to avoid rape by ‘fighting off’ the rapist. The facts dispute this; many people who are sexually attacked are unable to move or protest due to fear, shock or because they are incapacitated, guns are useless in these circumstances. Even given the fact that if all women and old people carried guns and as 2aguy keeps saying, criminals are easily able to get guns, what’s to stop the criminal “getting the drop” on the victim, disarming them, and committing the crime anyway; with the added bonus they would acquire another gun in the process. 2aguy’s premise would merely serve to make a bad situation worse.
• Mass shootings in the UK since 1996? 1. Mass shootings in the USA since 1996? 76 35 Years of Mass Shootings in the U.S. in One Chart. Gun control works for us in the UK, end of story.

But but but - women carrying guns has eliminated rape in the US. Maybe we could take learning from that.

 

[Vagabond63]

Your society banned guns for law abiding people...the result: More gun crime, more violent crime, making Britain more violent than the rest of Europe, and the U.S....congratulations...you women cannot protect themselves from rape, your seniors are the prey of any young male who wants their pension money...good for you....and your luck will run out, and you will also have mass shootings....

This statement is inaccurate on so many levels it’s difficult to know where to begin, but here goes.

• We did not ban guns for law-abiding people, we banned ownership of handguns and semi-automatic rifles. Currently there are 1.3 million licenced shotguns in the UK, approximately 1 gun for every 64 people if you prefer. On top of that there are over 500,000 licenced firearms in private hands (“firearms” include any gun that’s not a shotgun.) So, your opening premise is inaccurate.
• Since 1996 the rate of violent crime (including gun and sexual) has decreased year on year in the UK until 2008, when the world wide financial crisis hit. Some criminologists postulate that the rise in poverty caused by the crisis and the subsequent “austerity” measures implemented in the Uk by the Tories in 2010, have had an impact in driving crime rates upwards. Throughout the whole period of decline in violent crime the “gun ban” made no difference, so your second premise is inaccurate.
• 90% of rapes in the UK involve people who know each other. One of the enduring myths regarding rape is that women are able to avoid rape by ‘fighting off’ the rapist. The facts dispute this; many people who are sexually attacked are unable to move or protest due to fear, shock or because they are incapacitated, guns are useless in these circumstances. Even given the fact that if all women and old people carried guns and as 2aguy keeps saying, criminals are easily able to get guns, what’s to stop the criminal “getting the drop” on the victim, disarming them, and committing the crime anyway; with the added bonus they would acquire another gun in the process. 2aguy’s premise would merely serve to make a bad situation worse.
• Mass shootings in the UK since 1996? 1. Mass shootings in the USA since 1996? 76 35 Years of Mass Shootings in the U.S. in One Chart. Gun control works for us in the UK, end of story.

But but but - women carrying guns has eliminated rape in the US. Maybe we could take learning from that.

Fair point.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Your society banned guns for law abiding people...the result: More gun crime, more violent crime, making Britain more violent than the rest of Europe, and the U.S....congratulations...you women cannot protect themselves from rape, your seniors are the prey of any young male who wants their pension money...good for you....and your luck will run out, and you will also have mass shootings....

This statement is inaccurate on so many levels it’s difficult to know where to begin, but here goes.

• We did not ban guns for law-abiding people, we banned ownership of handguns and semi-automatic rifles. Currently there are 1.3 million licenced shotguns in the UK, approximately 1 gun for every 64 people if you prefer. On top of that there are over 500,000 licenced firearms in private hands (“firearms” include any gun that’s not a shotgun.) So, your opening premise is inaccurate.
• Since 1996 the rate of violent crime (including gun and sexual) has decreased year on year in the UK until 2008, when the world wide financial crisis hit. Some criminologists postulate that the rise in poverty caused by the crisis and the subsequent “austerity” measures implemented in the Uk by the Tories in 2010, have had an impact in driving crime rates upwards. Throughout the whole period of decline in violent crime the “gun ban” made no difference, so your second premise is inaccurate.
• 90% of rapes in the UK involve people who know each other. One of the enduring myths regarding rape is that women are able to avoid rape by ‘fighting off’ the rapist. The facts dispute this; many people who are sexually attacked are unable to move or protest due to fear, shock or because they are incapacitated, guns are useless in these circumstances. Even given the fact that if all women and old people carried guns and as 2aguy keeps saying, criminals are easily able to get guns, what’s to stop the criminal “getting the drop” on the victim, disarming them, and committing the crime anyway; with the added bonus they would acquire another gun in the process. 2aguy’s premise would merely serve to make a bad situation worse.
• Mass shootings in the UK since 1996? 1. Mass shootings in the USA since 1996? 76 35 Years of Mass Shootings in the U.S. in One Chart. Gun control works for us in the UK, end of story.

But but but - women carrying guns has eliminated rape in the US. Maybe we could take learning from that.

Fair point.

He wont come back to this for a few days. This weeks mass slaughter has just happened and he is busy telling everyone how much worse it could have been if there were no guns.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

it’s a sign of being civilised.

.

You are on record as supporting the mass murder of Jewish athletes and have the utter temerity to talk about being civilized?

Only a moron would have the "temerity" (that's a big word for you, did you look it up in a Thesaurus?) to interpret my comment about double standards regarding Iran and Israel when both countries plan and carry out state sponsored assassinations against people they consider terrorists as supporting mass murder of anyone. Your stupidity and bigotry beggar belief.

First, you made a very stupid and dishonest comparison between Israel taking out the subhumans who killed their athletes and Iran wanting to murder a person simply for wanting Iran to be more liberal and tolerant. Next, you tried to justify these murders by indicating they were not terrorism.

I see you are infesting in the U.K. You should return immediately to whatever hell hole spawned you because your repulsive antisemitism has no place in western liberal society.

 

[Vagabond63]

Your society banned guns for law abiding people...the result: More gun crime, more violent crime, making Britain more violent than the rest of Europe, and the U.S....congratulations...you women cannot protect themselves from rape, your seniors are the prey of any young male who wants their pension money...good for you....and your luck will run out, and you will also have mass shootings....

This statement is inaccurate on so many levels it’s difficult to know where to begin, but here goes.

• We did not ban guns for law-abiding people, we banned ownership of handguns and semi-automatic rifles. Currently there are 1.3 million licenced shotguns in the UK, approximately 1 gun for every 64 people if you prefer. On top of that there are over 500,000 licenced firearms in private hands (“firearms” include any gun that’s not a shotgun.) So, your opening premise is inaccurate.
• Since 1996 the rate of violent crime (including gun and sexual) has decreased year on year in the UK until 2008, when the world wide financial crisis hit. Some criminologists postulate that the rise in poverty caused by the crisis and the subsequent “austerity” measures implemented in the Uk by the Tories in 2010, have had an impact in driving crime rates upwards. Throughout the whole period of decline in violent crime the “gun ban” made no difference, so your second premise is inaccurate.
• 90% of rapes in the UK involve people who know each other. One of the enduring myths regarding rape is that women are able to avoid rape by ‘fighting off’ the rapist. The facts dispute this; many people who are sexually attacked are unable to move or protest due to fear, shock or because they are incapacitated, guns are useless in these circumstances. Even given the fact that if all women and old people carried guns and as 2aguy keeps saying, criminals are easily able to get guns, what’s to stop the criminal “getting the drop” on the victim, disarming them, and committing the crime anyway; with the added bonus they would acquire another gun in the process. 2aguy’s premise would merely serve to make a bad situation worse.
• Mass shootings in the UK since 1996? 1. Mass shootings in the USA since 1996? 76 35 Years of Mass Shootings in the U.S. in One Chart. Gun control works for us in the UK, end of story.

But but but - women carrying guns has eliminated rape in the US. Maybe we could take learning from that.

Fair point.

He wont come back to this for a few days. This weeks mass slaughter has just happened and he is busy telling everyone how much worse it could have been if there were no guns.

Yes, I've just learned about that tragedy in Ventura county, while I feel for the victims and their families, I find it sadly ironic that Ventura county recently relaxed its gun contol laws. Maybe there's a moral to be learned?

 

[80zephyr]

I think he's obsessed...

Translation: We are so tired of this guy kicking our ass, that the only recourse we have is to try to silence him.

Mark

 

[Vagabond63]

I think he's obsessed...

Translation: We are so tired of this guy kicking our ass, that the only recourse we have is to try to silence him.

Mark

Who are you talking about Mark?

 

[80zephyr]

I think he's obsessed...

Translation: We are so tired of this guy kicking our ass, that the only recourse we have is to try to silence him.

Mark

Who are you talking about Mark?

Everyone here that is dissing the thread author for being obsessed. Many here have topics they love to explore, and this one is no different...except rather than using logic and reason, they attack the poster. That tells me they don't have an answer to his points.

Mark