A rape, and a likely rape that did not happen, a difference between two countries...

[EvilCat Breath]

The more muslim immigration the more opposition there will be to armed women. That's on top of liberal nonsense.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

So in the interest of balance, how many women in America have been raped at gunpoint? Google it.

And you miss the point.... a man doesn't need a gun to rape a woman, a knife or even his bare hands will do.....and he could also just get friends to help...

A gun, on the other hand, is the best way for a woman to stop a rape.....the best tool, even better than a knife....

As the stories I listed show, a gun allows a woman to drive off not only a single man, but multiple male attackers even if they are armed.....

So I ask you...if you will answer...which is preferable...that a woman is raped, or that she have the ability to use a concealed or openly carried gun to stop it? Which do you want.....?

Here....some help....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

Is there a specific term for your gun related OCD? Was someone from England mean to you when you were little? Inquiring minds want to know.

He needs to discredit the UK because it is an example of gun control working. He has started on Ireland recently as well.

How is gun control working in Britain when your gun crime rate is up 42% in London....and up 23% across England and Wales?

Meanwhile, gun crime in the U.S. is down 75%....

Thanks to a right wing Conservative govermnent that cut Police funding, took 20,000 police officers off our streets and pursued ideological "austerity" policies that have increased poverty levels resulting in an increase in crime.

No no no - its all to do with imigrunts - it was on fox.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

And then you still have to get past the 1.1 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to save lives

Prove it.

If you ask him for examples he can usually find 3. Of course at the rate he claims it is happening over 3000 times a day.

 

[Vagabond63]

And then you still have to get past the 1.1 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to save lives

Prove it.

If you ask him for examples he can usually find 3. Of course at the rate he claims it is happening over 3000 times a day.

I'm not asking for examples, he made an assertion; I'm asking him to prove that figure is accurate.

 

[Vagabond63]

And you miss the point.... a man doesn't need a gun to rape a woman, a knife or even his bare hands will do.....and he could also just get friends to help...

A gun, on the other hand, is the best way for a woman to stop a rape.....the best tool, even better than a knife....

As the stories I listed show, a gun allows a woman to drive off not only a single man, but multiple male attackers even if they are armed.....

So I ask you...if you will answer...which is preferable...that a woman is raped, or that she have the ability to use a concealed or openly carried gun to stop it? Which do you want.....?

Here....some help....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

Is there a specific term for your gun related OCD? Was someone from England mean to you when you were little? Inquiring minds want to know.

He needs to discredit the UK because it is an example of gun control working. He has started on Ireland recently as well.

How is gun control working in Britain when your gun crime rate is up 42% in London....and up 23% across England and Wales?

Meanwhile, gun crime in the U.S. is down 75%....

Thanks to a right wing Conservative govermnent that cut Police funding, took 20,000 police officers off our streets and pursued ideological "austerity" policies that have increased poverty levels resulting in an increase in crime.

No no no - its all to do with imigrunts - it was on fox.

Thank God we have the English Channel to prevent all those caravans...

 

[BULLDOG]

And then you still have to get past the 1.1 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to save lives

Prove it.

If you ask him for examples he can usually find 3. Of course at the rate he claims it is happening over 3000 times a day.

I'm not asking for examples, he made an assertion; I'm asking him to prove that figure is accurate.

You asked that 2 nut for proof? You're in for a real treat. Expect about 4 pages of cut and paste crap that probably won't have anything to do with what you asked.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

And then you still have to get past the 1.1 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to save lives

Prove it.

If you ask him for examples he can usually find 3. Of course at the rate he claims it is happening over 3000 times a day.

I'm not asking for examples, he made an assertion; I'm asking him to prove that figure is accurate.

Good luck with that.

 

[2aguy]

And you miss the point.... a man doesn't need a gun to rape a woman, a knife or even his bare hands will do.....and he could also just get friends to help...

A gun, on the other hand, is the best way for a woman to stop a rape.....the best tool, even better than a knife....

As the stories I listed show, a gun allows a woman to drive off not only a single man, but multiple male attackers even if they are armed.....

...and you miss the point. A gun only works if the woman has the time and/or opportunity to reach it and the will to use it to kill another human being. Interestingly enough, guns come second to eye gouging as the most effective way of preventing a rape according to your sources.

You don't know what you are talking about....

Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

-------

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

If only real life was a simple as this. Apparently in America, awash with guns, approximately 20% of American women experiance rape or serious sexual assault in their lifetime; guns don't seem to help much for those poor women.

If you don't own a gun, or your state, like New York and New Jersey won't let you carry one for self defense, it is hard to stop a rape when you don't have the gun...

 

[2aguy]

How is gun control working in Britain when your gun crime rate is up 42% in London....and up 23% across England and Wales?

Meanwhile, gun crime in the U.S. is down 75%....

And your murder rate is up 30% in 5 years.

Thanks to obama, because before he attacked police it was going down.....while more Americans owned and carried guns.....

And then you still have to get past the 1.1 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to save lives......criminals killing criminals in democrat party controlled cities is a problem in those tiny areas where it happens, meanwhile, Americans stop crime with their legal guns.....something that can't happen in Britain..where violence is up 95% in some areas...

I can point out a synagogue and a yoga place where crime is up thousands of percentage points because of coward right wing gun nuts. Thanks to Trump.

No... you can point out 2 gun free zones that were attacked by an evil individual who ignored all of your gun control laws...

Probably because guns are so easy to get hold of over there; "evil individuals" seem to pop up with alarming regularity in mass shootings in America. Since 1996 we've had one mass shooting in the UK, how many mass shootings have you had in the USA in that time?

Wrong, you averaged about one every 10 years before you banned guns and so far that hasn't changed...except for the increase in attempts....you have had at least 3 attempted mass shootings, including 3 school shootings that were not stopped by your gun control laws...they were stopped by dumb luck....that is an increase....

And on the other side of the ledger, guns saving lives....since mass public shooters kill about 70 people in a bad year...out of 320 million people......Americans use their legal guns to stop violent criminals 1.1 million times a year....can you tell which number is bigger? Lives saved, lives not destroyed by violent rape, and murder.... meanwhile, your gun crime rates are going up, not down, while our gun violence rates are going down...how do you explain that?

And here, the mass shootings your gun control laws didn't stop.....dumb luck stopped them...

Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

Two teenage boys planned to “kill everyone” at their Yorkshireschool in a Columbine-style massacre using bombs and guns, a court has heard.

---------------------------

The document said the boy would “lay low” in Catterick before murdering his ex-girlfriend’s parents and stealing her father’s guns, the court heard.

“I’ll make some explosives then well find a way back to Northallerton and well begin our assault on that f****** school,” it continued

----

"This was no teenage fantasy; it was real,” he added. “They intended a re-enactment of the Columbine High School Massacre although fortunately, in the result, they were stopped before their plans were put into action.”

.4/6/18

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

A former doctor has been sentenced to 12 years in prison for stockpiling guns with the intent to endanger life.

Martin Watt was found with three submachine guns, two pistols and 1,500 live cartridges at a property in Cumbernauld, Scotland, last year.

The 62-year-old had lost his job at Monklands hospital in North Lanarkshire in 2012 after disciplinary hearings. His marriage broke down around the same time, the high court in Glasgow was told.

Watt had compiled a list of names and addresses of some colleagues involved in the disciplinary process, which the judge, Valerie Stacey, said Watt had referred to as an assassination list.
=======



Here is the updat, the original is below..

Yep.....this 19 year old got bombs and a glock 19 and 94 rounds of 9mm ammo on the dark web in Britain in order to murder people at the University he used to attend..........

I guess their gun control laws stopped him...right? Or was it pure, dumb luck.....?


-------------

British teen sentenced to life for planned school attack

Despite some of the tightest gun control on the planet, a British man was able to acquire a handgun, extended mags and explosives as part of a plot to attack his former school.

Liam Lyburd, 19, of Newcastle upon Tyne, was sentenced to life imprisonment this week on eight charges of possessing weapons with intent to endanger life.

As noted by the BBC, Lyburd gathered a cache that included a Glock 19, three 33-round magazines, 94 hollow-point bullets, CS gas, five pipe bombs and two other improvised explosive devices despite the country’s long history of civilian arms control.

According to court documents, Lyburd planned to use the weapons in an attack on Newcastle College, from which he had been expelled two years prior for poor attendance. He was arrested last November after two Northumbria Police constables visited him at his home on a tip from an individual who encountered threats and disturbing pictures posted by Lyburd online.

Despite a defense that portrayed the reclusive man as living in a fantasy world, Lyburd was found guilty in July.

The internet-savvy teen obtained the Glock and other items through Evolution Marketplace, a successor to the Silk Road, a long-time “dark web” site in which users could buy and sell everything from illegal narcotics to munitions using Bitcoin cryptocurrency.

In court, Lyburd testified that buying the Glock was so easy it was “like buying a bar of chocolate.”

He obtained funds for his purchases through a complex extortion scheme in which he used online malware to infect computers, which he in turn held for ransom from their owners.

====Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'


15-year-old boy arrested for taking shotgun and ammunition into school did it because he was being bullied for being too fat, fellow pupils said.

=======




'Gunman' walks into Liverpool nursery school as children were playing inside

Police have sealed off a children's nursery in Liverpool amid reports a gunman walked into the building while youngsters were inside.

Officers were called to Childs Play Nursery in Wavertree, Merseyside, at around 8am this morning.

The man, who is believed to have been carrying what looked like a firearm, walked into the nursery and approached another man.

He then left with a second man on the back of a motorbike.



What kept this man from shooting up the nursery......? Your gun control laws obviously didn't stop him...


Children among 10 people in hospital after mass shooting in Manchester

 

[2aguy]

So in the interest of balance, how many women in America have been raped at gunpoint? Google it.

And you miss the point.... a man doesn't need a gun to rape a woman, a knife or even his bare hands will do.....and he could also just get friends to help...

A gun, on the other hand, is the best way for a woman to stop a rape.....the best tool, even better than a knife....

As the stories I listed show, a gun allows a woman to drive off not only a single man, but multiple male attackers even if they are armed.....

So I ask you...if you will answer...which is preferable...that a woman is raped, or that she have the ability to use a concealed or openly carried gun to stop it? Which do you want.....?

Here....some help....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

Is there a specific term for your gun related OCD? Was someone from England mean to you when you were little? Inquiring minds want to know.

He needs to discredit the UK because it is an example of gun control working. He has started on Ireland recently as well.

How is gun control working in Britain when your gun crime rate is up 42% in London....and up 23% across England and Wales?

Meanwhile, gun crime in the U.S. is down 75%....

Thanks to a right wing Conservative govermnent that cut Police funding, took 20,000 police officers off our streets and pursued ideological "austerity" policies that have increased poverty levels resulting in an increase in crime.

Yeah, but that doesn't explain the increase in gun crime....since you have gun control laws....yet your criminals are getting more guns..... you are sitting on a level of violence that is going to be pretty horrific....you have young males raised without fathers, you have 3rd world males raised in war zones who don't respect your non violent ways....and you are under mining your police every way possible...just like our democrat party over here does......and you think your gun crime rates won't go up?

 

[Vagabond63]

And you miss the point.... a man doesn't need a gun to rape a woman, a knife or even his bare hands will do.....and he could also just get friends to help...

A gun, on the other hand, is the best way for a woman to stop a rape.....the best tool, even better than a knife....

As the stories I listed show, a gun allows a woman to drive off not only a single man, but multiple male attackers even if they are armed.....

...and you miss the point. A gun only works if the woman has the time and/or opportunity to reach it and the will to use it to kill another human being. Interestingly enough, guns come second to eye gouging as the most effective way of preventing a rape according to your sources.

You don't know what you are talking about....

Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

-------

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

If only real life was a simple as this. Apparently in America, awash with guns, approximately 20% of American women experiance rape or serious sexual assault in their lifetime; guns don't seem to help much for those poor women.

If you don't own a gun, or your state, like New York and New Jersey won't let you carry one for self defense, it is hard to stop a rape when you don't have the gun...

So in your world, the ONLY way to stop a rape is by shooting the rapist?

 

[Vagabond63]

If you ask him for examples he can usually find 3. Of course at the rate he claims it is happening over 3000 times a day.

You asked that 2 nut for proof? You're in for a real treat. Expect about 4 pages of cut and paste crap that probably won't have anything to do with what you asked.

Looks like you both got that right. Just read his post #29, still quoting that "1.1 million" mantra statistic without backing up the assertion. Hey ho, ever onward and upward.

 

[Vagabond63]

Wrong, you averaged about one every 10 years before you banned guns and so far that hasn't changed...except for the increase in attempts....you have had at least 3 attempted mass shootings, including 3 school shootings that were not stopped by your gun control laws...they were stopped by dumb luck....that is an increase....

...blah, blah, blah, etc.
I did say from 1996, another good reason for gun control. How many mass shoting have you had in America since 1996?

Thanks for demonstrating how well gun control works here:
Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

In "awash with guns USA", they could have just walked into Walmart at the time bought the guns and carried out their plan. Gun control win!

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

Yup, he bought these weapons over the internet and was caught when he tried to get a Skorpion sub machine pistol into the country through the post! He also tried to recommission deactived guns and tried to convert blank rounds into dundum bullets. In "awash with guns" USA, he could have just walked into a gun store and bought anything he needed. Another gun control win!

Liam Lyburd? Another internet purchaser. Fair enough, this one was more serious, but at least his friend, obviously not a gun toting maniac, informed on him. Not a gun control win, just a triumph of sanity. Maybe in awash with guns America, his friend would have shot him and been hailed a hero?

Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'

I like this one, although I can sympathise with the poor kid, he was the one that called the police. A "cry for help" is hardly a Columbine or Sandy Hook. Luckily the kids and teachers weren't armed or they might just have shot him in self defence; another gun control win!

Liverpool "gunman"? Not worth responding to as witnesses state they thought he was carrying something that look like a gun...cordless drill perhaps?

Handguns were banned after Dunblaine because we didn't want to emulate America; most people in this country agreed then and agree now we don't want the streets full of gun toting manics, thank you.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong, you averaged about one every 10 years before you banned guns and so far that hasn't changed...except for the increase in attempts....you have had at least 3 attempted mass shootings, including 3 school shootings that were not stopped by your gun control laws...they were stopped by dumb luck....that is an increase....

...blah, blah, blah, etc.
I did say from 1996, another good reason for gun control. How many mass shoting have you had in America since 1996?

Thanks for demonstrating how well gun control works here:
Teenage boys planned to 'kill everyone' at Yorkshire school in Columbine-style gun and bomb massacre, court hears

In "awash with guns USA", they could have just walked into Walmart at the time bought the guns and carried out their plan. Gun control win!

Doctor found with stash of guns and NHS hitlist jailed

Yup, he bought these weapons over the internet and was caught when he tried to get a Skorpion sub machine pistol into the country through the post! He also tried to recommission deactived guns and tried to convert blank rounds into dundum bullets. In "awash with guns" USA, he could have just walked into a gun store and bought anything he needed. Another gun control win!

Liam Lyburd? Another internet purchaser. Fair enough, this one was more serious, but at least his friend, obviously not a gun toting maniac, informed on him. Not a gun control win, just a triumph of sanity. Maybe in awash with guns America, his friend would have shot him and been hailed a hero?

Teenage boy 'took shotgun to school after being bullied for being fat'

I like this one, although I can sympathise with the poor kid, he was the one that called the police. A "cry for help" is hardly a Columbine or Sandy Hook. Luckily the kids and teachers weren't armed or they might just have shot him in self defence; another gun control win!

Liverpool "gunman"? Not worth responding to as witnesses state they thought he was carrying something that look like a gun...cordless drill perhaps?

Handguns were banned after Dunblaine because we didn't want to emulate America; most people in this country agreed then and agree now we don't want the streets full of gun toting manics, thank you.

You see more planned mass shootings...stopped not by your gun control laws but by pure dumb luck...and you think that is a good trend......? Really?

Our mass shootings have gone up as our families have been wrecked by the welfare state, and social media creates a mirror for these shooters....don't worry, as I showed you, you and your country are on your way to the same thing....you have had an increase in planned mass shootings.....you can't be lucky forever....

Keep thinking you are immune..... you will see what happens....

 

[2aguy]

And you miss the point.... a man doesn't need a gun to rape a woman, a knife or even his bare hands will do.....and he could also just get friends to help...

A gun, on the other hand, is the best way for a woman to stop a rape.....the best tool, even better than a knife....

As the stories I listed show, a gun allows a woman to drive off not only a single man, but multiple male attackers even if they are armed.....

...and you miss the point. A gun only works if the woman has the time and/or opportunity to reach it and the will to use it to kill another human being. Interestingly enough, guns come second to eye gouging as the most effective way of preventing a rape according to your sources.

You don't know what you are talking about....

Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

-------

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

If only real life was a simple as this. Apparently in America, awash with guns, approximately 20% of American women experiance rape or serious sexual assault in their lifetime; guns don't seem to help much for those poor women.

If you don't own a gun, or your state, like New York and New Jersey won't let you carry one for self defense, it is hard to stop a rape when you don't have the gun...

So in your world, the ONLY way to stop a rape is by shooting the rapist?

No....shooting the rapist is the best way.....having the gun by itself and pointing it at the rapist tends to kill the mood, as most defensive gun uses end with the attacker running away, surrendering or getting wounded, not killed......

 

[2aguy]

If you ask him for examples he can usually find 3. Of course at the rate he claims it is happening over 3000 times a day.

You asked that 2 nut for proof? You're in for a real treat. Expect about 4 pages of cut and paste crap that probably won't have anything to do with what you asked.

Looks like you both got that right. Just read his post #29, still quoting that "1.1 million" mantra statistic without backing up the assertion. Hey ho, ever onward and upward.

Here, twit....the research...on the CDC 1.1 million number....

What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses? by Gary Kleck :: SSRN




Reason article on the revised paper..



A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use

Here's how Kleck got to that new conclusion. The BRFSS, as Kleck describes it in his paper, "are high-quality telephone surveys of very large probability samples of U.S. adults...even just the subset of four to seven state surveys that asked about DGU in 1996-1998 interviewed 3,197-4,500 adults, depending on the year. This is more people than were asked about this topic in any other surveys, other than the National Self-Defense Survey conducted in 1993 by Kleck and Gertz (1995), who asked DGU questions of 4,977 people." The BRFSS asked about defensive uses of guns in seven states in 1996, seven in 1997, and four in 1998.

Kleck judged the "wording of the DGU question in the BRFSS surveys" as "also excellent, avoiding many problems with the wording that afflicted the DGU questions used in other surveys."

The BRFSS results were designed to exclude "uses by military, police and others with firearm-related jobs" and "uses against animals." The survey was designed to garner "yes" answers as long as a gun was used in presumed self-defense in any location (not just the home), whether or not the gun was actually fired (as, per Kleck's survey, around 3/4 of the time one needn't fire the gun to have found it useful in deterring an intruder or attacker).

Since Kleck's survey did not include Alaska and Hawaii and the BRFSS did (in 1996 and 1997 respectively), he kept them out of the comparison. The states for which a meaningful comparison could be made between his NSDS and this CDC survey, then, were, in 1996, Kentucky, Louisiana (also surveyed in 1998), Maryland, New Hampshire (also surveyed in 1997), New York, and West Virginia; in 1997, Colorado, Missouri, New Jersey (also surveyed in 1998), North Dakota, and Ohio; and in 1998, Montana and Pennsylvania.

Kleck notes that it's simply impossible to extrapolate meaningfully from the small set of states surveyed over the course of those three years to a solid national DGU figure from the BRFSS itself: "We cannot directly apply these estimates to the U.S. because the sets of states do not constitute a probability sample of the U.S. The prevalence of DGU could be far higher in some states than in the nation as a whole if the states have higher-than-average rates of gun ownership and/or crime, or could be far lower if the set of states had lower gun ownership or crime rates."

But he does think by comparing the national results from his NSDS to the results in the BRFSS-surveyed set of states in his NSDS you can make a tentative extrapolation (after adjusting for the fact that the BRFSS only asked the DGU question to households that had already said they had a gun, while his surveys "found that 21% of persons who reported a DGU had denied having a gun in their household at the time of the interview.")

In the group of states (minus Alaska and Hawaii) that BRFSS surveyed over those three years, the BRFSS found raw numbers of 55 (1996), 29 (1997), and 33 (1998) DGUs.

After a series of adjustments and weightings described at length in the paper, Kleck concludes the BRFSS survey indicates that the percentage of adults in gun-owning households who experienced a DGU in the states they surveyed were 1.33 percent for 1996, 0.89 percent for 1997, and 1.04 percent for 1998.

Again, while a straight national extrapolation for the BRFSS data alone can't be meaningfully done, Kleck tries, presuming that the ratio of the national DGU rate over the rate in the specific group of states that BRFSS happened to survey found in his NSDS should hold for the BRFSS as well, to make a national DGU rate guess from the BRFSS data. He ends up calculating national percentage rates for adults in gun-owning households nationally of 0.59 percent based on the 1996 states, 0.81 percent based on the 1997 states, and 1.82 percent based on the 1998 states.

After adjustments to get a guess for total adults, not just adults in gun-owning households, the range of total DGUs Kleck estimates for the nation with the above methods from the CDC's state-level surveys range from a low of 620,648 for 1996 to 1.9 million in 1998, for an average over the years of 1.1 million.



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The CDC under Obama, in 2013.......their conclusion on defensive gun use...

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1#ii


Defensive Use of Guns
Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence, although the exact number remains disputed (Cook and Ludwig, 1996; Kleck, 2001a). Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million (Kleck, 2001a),
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A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[Vagabond63]

You see more planned mass shootings...stopped not by your gun control laws but by pure dumb luck...and you think that is a good trend......? Really?

No-one has ever said there would not be lunatics out there planning mass shootings; the purpose of the ban on handguns was to make it as difficult as possible (if not outright impossible) for such people to carry out their fantasies. Nor has anyone ever asserted that gun control laws alone would stop determined and resourceful people getting hold of guns. Our society does not have a “gun culture”; we don’t see guns as solutions to all our problems, it’s a sign of being civilised.

Our mass shootings have gone up as our families have been wrecked by the welfare state, and social media creates a mirror for these shooters...

Oh please, you don’t have any evidence that a welfare state wrecks families; welfare if anything, helps to keep families together in the UK. As for social media; we’ve heard that sort of thing before, “Dungeons and Dragons” will turn kids into Devil worshippers, violent computer games turn kids into psychopaths, etc.

don't worry, as I showed you, you and your country are on your way to the same thing…

You’ve shown me nothing of the sort, all you’ve done is make wild claims and trawled through the media to find any reference to gun use in the UK and then blown these incidents out of all proportion to forward your agenda. I for one am bored with your constant paranoid fearmongering.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

So in your world, the ONLY way to stop a rape is by shooting the rapist?

Heavens no.

Keeping Muslims from infesting European countries would be more effective.

 

[Vagabond63]

No....shooting the rapist is the best way…

Really? You advocate women pointing guns at men (or women for that matter) who come on to them, and they’re not interested? Most rapes (90% in the UKhttps://rapecrisis.org.uk/statistics.php) are attempted/carried out by people the victim knows, often when both victim and perpetrator are drunk; not sure how a gun would be of any use in such circumstances.Other methods to avoid being attacked is simply not to put yourself in circumstances where an attack is possible; simply being streetwise.

 

[Vagabond63]

Here, twit....the research...on the CDC 1.1 million number....

Finally, thank you. Very interesting, except for the fact that even your source states that this figure is an estimate, a "best guess" based on telephone surveys of around 5000 people. It's not a fact, it's not proof and it's not necessarily reliable, given that a brief search about the Kleck survey finds many other sources who disagree with his findings.

Sorry, the jury is still out on this one, so continually repeating this 1.1million mantra as fact undermines your argument and makes you look ridiculous.