A Question Regarding Religion in America

[AVG-JOE]

I haven't noticed anyone other than Sunni and a few other dimwits of his ilk indicating any desire to take away your right to believe anything you want, although I realize that many with your beliefs suffer from delusions of persecution any time someone dares to simply disagree with them.

It's always seemed to me that the people who are truly insecure in their beliefs and desire for religious freedom to defend the right of the poiltically incorrect religions to exist.

Nobody, including Sunni Man, on this thread has said anything about taking away anybodies right to think what they like about religion. The thesis question of the thread is 'Would you defend another Americans right to believe something, even if you personally thought they were wrong?'

Please. Sunni is all about suppressing those who don't agree with him. Why do you think I keep his ignorant ass on ignore?



And now you want a cookie for your great magnanimity?

CS Lewis said in "The Screwtape Letters" that it was a goal of Hell to get people to be paranoid of that sin which they were least in danger of committing. Thus, licentious societies fear the horrors of Puritanical oppression, for example. And thus does this board have you concerned with whether or not Christians respect the right of others enough to defend them while on several occasions, I have heard people - all innocently and earnestly - expressing the belief that Christians and their beliefs should be barred from the public arena to serve some apocryphal idea of "separation of church and state".

Am I now supposed to be impressed that you have so generously agreed that people you disagree with should be allowed to believe as they please? Should I thank you?



This is me NOT falling off my chair from shock.



Right back atcha, buddy boy, and with a hell of a lot more urgency, since your side is the one encroaching on freedom of belief and practice, not mine.



Call me when you actually start this glorious defense, all right? I won't hold my breath.

Can I be your neighbor in spite of the fact that you think I am going to burn in hell and I think that you are a fool?

I doubt it. You seem to want medals simply for the enormous act of allowing me to exist, and that would get old fast.

By the way, I don't think you're going to Hell. I am carefully instructed by the holy book you disdain to not presume to have an opinion about the state of someone else's soul. I leave that sort of excessive judgementalism to YOUR side.

As far as I am concerned we can, but I am only half the equation.

-Joe

Exactly half, and not the half you flatter yourself to think it is.

I'll put you down for a 'no' regarding your willingness to defend your fellow Americans right to think differently.

P.S. - I do NOT 'distain' The Bible - on the contrary, I hold it in the same esteem as most earth literature of its era. I have found many of the stories fascinating... I understand your passion for its redemption story and its theory of origins but I don't share your faith in the conclusions that religious doctrine for the last 2,500 years has placed in those stories.

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

Of course Id defend your right to be wrong.

I would, however, ask you what you meant about God being bigger than what the Holy Books covers. God has paid the price for all mankind to be redeemed. I dont know how much bigger is possible.

I appreciate your opinion of that particular story in our history and your faith in its promise, but I do not believe the story has been accurately retold and I do not share your faith in it's current relevance.

Whether or not we can be brought to agreement as to current relevance of the redemption story of The Bible is not the question, the question is whether or not we each have an equal right to our differing opinions about it in America.

It is important because there are some countries where a contrary opinion in religious matters can make you a second class citizen in the eyes of the political majority - I want to see if America is still one of them.

-Joe

You absolutely have the right to your belief and good Christians will die to defend that right...as we did during the revolutionary, civil and every war since.

Good Christians believe in religious freedom, nobody has a deeper desire to see it.

I challenge anyone to find evidence of true Christians attempting to silence those of other faiths. I, however, can provide ample evidence of progressive leftards attempting to shut down and bring about mainstream discrimination against Christians, however. By attempting to penalize Christians economically, politically and socially for daring to admit they are Christian.

I never said anything about Christians or anyone else attempting to silence people of other faiths. What I want to know is, if I was standing on a street corner holding a sign that read "Jesus Was Interesting, But Darwin Was Right!", and a guy came along wearing a gold cross and a t-shirt that said "No Jesus, No Peace - Know Jesus, Know Peace" and he maced me, would you cheer or yell "Shame on you!"?

Got links?

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

Avg - Joe - In the US you have Freedom of Religion which means you are free to worship in anyway that you please and believe in whatever you care to believe in. You also have the right to not believe in anything if that is your wish.

Thanks, Bro'! I'll put you down for a 'yes' regarding willingness to defend peoples right to be wrong.

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

Avg - Joe - In the US you have Freedom of Religion which means you are free to worship in anyway that you please and believe in whatever you care to believe in. You also have the right to not believe in anything if that is your wish.

Not true, In the US if you don't believe in god, you can't get elected, that's no freedom. And you can get your rights taken away, like no gay marriage, if you're against the teachings of the bible.

It sounds like that fact offends you... can I put you down for a 'yes' also?

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

Not true, In the US if you don't believe in god, you can't get elected, that's no freedom. And you can get your rights taken away, like no gay marriage, if you're against the teachings of the bible.

Bullshit. "Gay marriage" isn't a right that's being removed from people.

And yes, you can get elected if you don't believe in God, nitwit.

Ya right, Obama could have said that there's no invisible super daddy and he'd have gotten elected? Maybe you should go have a strong coffeee, it appears that you're not fully awake yet.

As for gay marriage, religious people in california voted out gay marriage (equal rights), were you asleep during that as well?

The majority refused to change the definition of marriage.

Big diff.

And oh, btw, you're a complete idiot.

That was a little uncalled for Allie... Doesn't he have a right to be wrong without being called names?

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

Avg - Joe - In the US you have Freedom of Religion which means you are free to worship in anyway that you please and believe in whatever you care to believe in. You also have the right to not believe in anything if that is your wish.

Not true, In the US if you don't believe in god, you can't get elected, that's no freedom. And you can get your rights taken away, like no gay marriage, if you're against the teachings of the bible.

Oh, damn. To get elected, you have to espouse ideas that the majority of the voters like and identify with. It's TYRANNY, I tell you! I should be able to get elected no matter WHAT I say or stand for!

And there's never BEEN a "right" to gay "marriage", so how the hell can it have been taken away, Mensa Boy? If I put my ear up against yours, would I be able to hear the ocean?

Ya got nothin' but acid, eh?

*sigh*

 

[Coloradomtnman]

You absolutely have the right to your belief and good Christians will die to defend that right...as we did during the revolutionary, civil and every war since.

Good Christians believe in religious freedom, nobody has a deeper desire to see it.

I challenge anyone to find evidence of true Christians attempting to silence those of other faiths. I, however, can provide ample evidence of progressive leftards attempting to shut down and bring about mainstream discrimination against Christians, however. By attempting to penalize Christians economically, politically and socially for daring to admit they are Christian.

I challenge you to provide evidence of true liberals attempting to silence Christians.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Gay marriage is a right, bestowed on homosexuals by their CREATOR, and who are you to say that it wasn't?

 

[AllieBaba]

You absolutely have the right to your belief and good Christians will die to defend that right...as we did during the revolutionary, civil and every war since.

Good Christians believe in religious freedom, nobody has a deeper desire to see it.

I challenge anyone to find evidence of true Christians attempting to silence those of other faiths. I, however, can provide ample evidence of progressive leftards attempting to shut down and bring about mainstream discrimination against Christians, however. By attempting to penalize Christians economically, politically and socially for daring to admit they are Christian.

I challenge you to provide evidence of true liberals attempting to silence Christians.

Canadian Court Rules Bible Verses

 

[Sky Dancer]

Gay marriage is a right, bestowed on homosexuals by their CREATOR, and who are you to say that it wasn't?

Some folks do not understand that marriage equality is a civil rights issue.

 

[AllieBaba]

And what happens when you try to sue a church for violating homos civil rights when they refuse to perform wedding ceremonies for them? You've got a problem, you do, because then the state is dictating religious practices.

 

[Avatar4321]

Gay marriage is a right, bestowed on homosexuals by their CREATOR, and who are you to say that it wasn't?

Some folks do not understand that marriage equality is a civil rights issue.

According to who? Who determines that it is a civil rights issue and why should we accept their view of the matter?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Gay marriage is a right, bestowed on homosexuals by their CREATOR, and who are you to say that it wasn't?

Some folks do not understand that marriage equality is a civil rights issue.

According to who? Who determines that it is a civil rights issue and why should we accept their view of the matter?

I understand your point. Get back to me when you're not allowed to marry,

 

[Avatar4321]

I understand your point. Get back to me when you're not allowed to marry,

Get back to me when anyone is not allowed to marry.

Simply because you dont want to marry the people you are allowed to marry, doenst mean you arent allowed to marry.

I cant marry Angelina Jolie as a matter of law. She is already married. Is this now a civil rights issue?

Please.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I understand your point. Get back to me when you're not allowed to marry,

Get back to me when anyone is not allowed to marry.

Simply because you dont want to marry the people you are allowed to marry, doenst mean you arent allowed to marry.

I cant marry Angelina Jolie as a matter of law. She is already married. Is this now a civil rights issue?
Please.

Don't play dumb. Just present your counter argument that marriage equality is not civil rights. Marriage law makes legal families.

 

[Sunni Man]

Gay marriage is a right, bestowed on homosexuals by their CREATOR, and who are you to say that it wasn't?

Some folks do not understand that marriage equality is a civil rights issue.

Just because a bunch of perverts want to call homo marriage a civil rights issue.

Doesn't mean that it is a civil rights issue.

NAMBLA says their sick agenda is a civil rights issue also.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Gay marriage is a right, bestowed on homosexuals by their CREATOR, and who are you to say that it wasn't?

Some folks do not understand that marriage equality is a civil rights issue.

Just because a bunch of perverts want to call homo marriage a civil rights issue.

Doesn't mean that it is a civil rights issue.

NAMBLA says their sick agenda is a civil rights issue also.

boring

 

[Sunni Man]

Some folks do not understand that marriage equality is a civil rights issue.

Just because a bunch of perverts want to call homo marriage a civil rights issue.

Doesn't mean that it is a civil rights issue.

NAMBLA says their sick agenda is a civil rights issue also.

boring

It may be boring, but it is also true

 

[Avatar4321]

I understand your point. Get back to me when you're not allowed to marry,

Get back to me when anyone is not allowed to marry.

Simply because you dont want to marry the people you are allowed to marry, doenst mean you arent allowed to marry.

I cant marry Angelina Jolie as a matter of law. She is already married. Is this now a civil rights issue?

Please.

Don't play dumb. Just present your counter argument that marriage equality is not civil rights.

I already have. I pointed out the flaw in your assertions.

Also, I reject your premise that this has anything to do with quality. All people are already equal. We all have the same restrictions on whom we can marry. Making a choice not to take advantage of those opportunities does that mean those opportunities are unavailable and that you are somehow unequal.

Again, because I'm legally unable to marry Angelina Jolie because she is already married, do I now have a civil rights issue? You seemed to imply the question was "dumb" and to suggest this was a civil rights issue was dumb. I would simply suggest stating gay "marriage" is civil right is equally dumb.

 

[Avatar4321]

Some folks do not understand that marriage equality is a civil rights issue.

Just because a bunch of perverts want to call homo marriage a civil rights issue.

Doesn't mean that it is a civil rights issue.

NAMBLA says their sick agenda is a civil rights issue also.

boring

Is that the entirely of your argument? Assert Gay "marriage" is a civil right and then ignore requests to prove your point?