A Question of Timing: What America Can Learn From the Revolt in Europe

[Rozman]

Robert Reich: A Question of Timing: What America Can Learn From the Revolt in Europe

Who's an economy for? Voters in France and Greece have made it clear it's not for the bond traders.

Referring to his own electoral woes, Prime Minister David Cameron wrote Monday in an article in the conservative Daily Telegraph: "When people think about the economy they don't see it through the dry numbers of the deficit figures, trade balances or inflation forecasts -- but instead the things that make the difference between a life that's worth living and a daily grind that drags them down."

Cameron, whose own economic policies have worsened the daily grind dragging down most Brits, may be sobered by what happened over the weekend in France and Greece -- as well as his own poll numbers. Britain's conservatives have been taking a beating.

In truth, the choice isn't simply between budget-cutting austerity, on the one hand, and growth and jobs on the other.

It's really a question of timing. And it's the same issue on this side of the pond. If government slices spending too early, when unemployment is high and growth is slowing, it makes the debt situation far worse.

That's because public spending is a critical component of total demand. If demand is already lagging, spending cuts further slow the economy -- and thereby increase the size of the public debt relative to the size of the overall economy.

You end up with the worst of both worlds -- a growing ratio of debt to the gross domestic product, coupled with high unemployment and a public that's furious about losing safety nets when they're most needed.

This is why the GOP's "just cut spending and social programs" will bite them in their own ass and make the country and its people far worse.

Yeh because God forbid we ask people to accept a government to spend within it's means.
Everybody wants and wants and wants more stuff.
The minute government says they can't keep spending money they don't have people get pissed and vote them out and vote in the people who will give them their free stuff.

Good Grief....

 

[Avatar4321]

Simple.

Don't become like them.

By advocating the identical austerity measures we re doing just the same like them stupid.

First, we aren't advocating spending cuts and tax increases. We are advocating spending cuts and tax cuts.

Second, it's not the austerity measures that are causing the problems. Its the overspending.

Third, It's Obama trying to make us more like them.

 

[Joshuatree]

I talked to a Spanish friend yesterday and she told me most Europeans are excited about the fact of having a socialist president elected in France. They think Hollande will help them get out of the mess they are in. How is it possible that Europeans haven't learned that their crisis was created by socialism and not by evil greedy capitalists? It's like they can't accept that their beloved socialism can ever fail. They will have to learn from suffering. Good news for the US is that, as Europe falls further and further, the US will see its status as super power geting more undisputed. Europeans will have to live with another century of American dominance.

 

[occupied]

Robert Reich: A Question of Timing: What America Can Learn From the Revolt in Europe

Who's an economy for? Voters in France and Greece have made it clear it's not for the bond traders.

Referring to his own electoral woes, Prime Minister David Cameron wrote Monday in an article in the conservative Daily Telegraph: "When people think about the economy they don't see it through the dry numbers of the deficit figures, trade balances or inflation forecasts -- but instead the things that make the difference between a life that's worth living and a daily grind that drags them down."

Cameron, whose own economic policies have worsened the daily grind dragging down most Brits, may be sobered by what happened over the weekend in France and Greece -- as well as his own poll numbers. Britain's conservatives have been taking a beating.

In truth, the choice isn't simply between budget-cutting austerity, on the one hand, and growth and jobs on the other.

It's really a question of timing. And it's the same issue on this side of the pond. If government slices spending too early, when unemployment is high and growth is slowing, it makes the debt situation far worse.

That's because public spending is a critical component of total demand. If demand is already lagging, spending cuts further slow the economy -- and thereby increase the size of the public debt relative to the size of the overall economy.

You end up with the worst of both worlds -- a growing ratio of debt to the gross domestic product, coupled with high unemployment and a public that's furious about losing safety nets when they're most needed.

This is why the GOP's "just cut spending and social programs" will bite them in their own ass and make the country and its people far worse.

Yeh because God forbid we ask people to accept a government to spend within it's means.
Everybody wants and wants and wants more stuff.
The minute government says they can't keep spending money they don't have people get pissed and vote them out and vote in the people who will give them their free stuff.

Good Grief....

The consent of the governed costs something in any country in either social equality or security. The choice is really food for the people or lots of riot cops.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Pubs/dupes vomit all the "communist!" talking points and don't even mention the PUB financial melt down and depression. Unbelievable tools.

If Pubs manage to blow health reform, I may check out France and India for a few years.... Where are you in France, mon vieux? I'm planning an urban camping tour soon. Love the bains/douches municipales!

Frankie....Bon Voyage......why dont you make that a looooooooong urban camping tour....drop by and see your 5th cousin Douger in Costa Rica....he needs a hug.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Pubs/dupes vomit all the "communist!" talking points and don't even mention the PUB financial melt down and depression. Unbelievable tools.

If Pubs manage to blow health reform, I may check out France and India for a few years.... Where are you in France, mon vieux? I'm planning an urban camping tour soon. Love the bains/douches municipales!

I live in a quite suburb just outside of Paris, nice snug little area. It amazes me how a retard like Claudette, who doesn't even live in France, claims to know what French people based on right wing retardology she's been brainwashed with.

so you dont live here yet you seem to think you know what Americans want.....whats the difference?.....

 

[The T]

Simple.

Don't become like them.

By advocating the identical austerity measures we re doing just the same like them stupid.

First, we aren't advocating spending cuts and tax increases. We are advocating spending cuts and tax cuts.

Second, it's not the austerity measures that are causing the problems. Its the overspending.

Third, It's Obama trying to make us more like them.

Repeated.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Flaylo... the stupidity never ends.


Oh, BTW, weren't you getting the fuck out of here for like EVER?

 

[The T]

Flaylo... the stupidity never ends.


Oh, BTW, weren't you getting the fuck out of here for like EVER?

He can't help it.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Flaylo... the stupidity never ends.


Oh, BTW, weren't you getting the fuck out of here for like EVER?

He can't help it.

There's something wrong with that one.. I can only hope he's just very young 'cause stupid can't be fixed.

 

[The T]

Flaylo... the stupidity never ends.


Oh, BTW, weren't you getting the fuck out of here for like EVER?

He can't help it.

There's something wrong with that one.. I can only hope he's just very young 'cause stupid can't be fixed.

Obviously. He's been ill-taught.

 

[francoHFW]

Jeebus, Pub dupes are ugly 'Merican morons- LOL

It was the SECOND Pub World Depression, not demon socialism, MORONS> LOL!

 

[Harry Dresden]

Jeebus, Pub dupes are ugly 'Merican morons- LOL

It was the SECOND Pub World Depression, not demon socialism, MORONS> LOL!

 

[The T]

Jeebus, Pub dupes are ugly 'Merican morons- LOL

It was the SECOND Pub World Depression, not demon socialism, MORONS> LOL!

Past the point of being funny but scary...Franco is just stipid...enough to be scripted...

 

[Oddball]

Another Flaylo thread, another link to HuffPo.

USMB should charge you rent.

France is going to tax and spend their way out of an over taxed and over spent problem.

It's like the Captain of the Titanic trying to ram a second iceberg to try to close the hole made by the first

Metaphor of the year!

I'm soooooo stealing that one!

 

[skookerasbil]

bottom line is, austerity is coming to all, here and over there. Just a matter of when if significant spending cuts arent made.

Only the nutters think that all will be hunky dorey simply by taxing the wealthy..........always fails.

Keynesian shit is well on its way to being mothballed, starting here in about 6 months.

 

[The T]

bottom line is, austerity is coming to all, here and over there. Just a matter of when if significant spending cuts arent made.

Only the nutters think that all will be hunky dorey simply by taxing the wealthy..........always fails.

Keynesian shit is well on its way to being mothballed, starting here in about 6 months.

They can take ALL wealth from the 'wealthy'...won't run government for very long under current levels of SPENDING.

 

[Political Junky]

The GOP is following Europe by pushing austerity.

 

[Londoner]

1945-1980: Demand centered policies which put money in middle class wallets, which forces capital to innovate and add jobs in order to capture that money.

The government used labor and tax policy to make sure consumers had sufficient resources to consume and drive the domestic economy. The fed was charged with maintaining full employment. During downturns the government added infrastructure jobs, trained workers, and stimulated the economy in multifarious ways to stave off a recession - thus preventing the spiraling unemployment that started with the bursting of the housing bubble. (When people stop spending, merchants have to lay off workers, and then there is even less people spending, which necessitates more lay offs - it' a toxic cycle that turned into a spiraling nightmare in 2008 under Bush). This is why the government has always stepped in to jump start the economy, so it could maintain employment levels and preserve the required consumption levels to prevent spiraling unemployment.

1980: Business doesn't want to maintain American employment levels. They want cheaper labor from dictator-run 3rd world countries. They want labor from freedom-hating, state-controlled economies like Communist China. So they bought a president named Ronald Reagan, who busted unions and dramatically weakened the policies which tied American business to American Labor.

Business shipped jobs to China and got Washington to subsidize offshore oil and drug companies instead of the middle class consumer (through things like public university funding). Slowly the middle class consumer loses his capacity to consume. So Washington - under Reagan - expanded the credit system.

1980-2008 . 30 years of shipping jobs to Asia, and 30 years of replacing wage-based consumption with debt-fueld consumption. American workers must now borrow the money they used to make in wages. Household debt starting in 1980 explodes. The solvent American consumer handed to Reagan by 45 years of demand centered policies is now - after 30 years of supply centered economics - bankrupt.

2005 Americans are in so much debt that they turn to the last thing left that has any value - the last thing they can squeeze credit out of: their homes.

Bush - ?: Housing market crashes. The middle class dies. There is no demand and no reason for capital to add jobs.

Silly rabit - the market will not pay the labor costs which result in the kinds of wages which sustain demand. The market wants Chinese sweatshop labor. Period. It doesn't want to pay for a class of robust consumers. Demand has always come from government. Always.

We swallowed poison in 1980. We died in 2008. We are now in hell.

 

[Bass v 2.0]

I talked to a Spanish friend yesterday and she told me most Europeans are excited about the fact of having a socialist president elected in France. They think Hollande will help them get out of the mess they are in. How is it possible that Europeans haven't learned that their crisis was created by socialism and not by evil greedy capitalists? It's like they can't accept that their beloved socialism can ever fail. They will have to learn from suffering. Good news for the US is that, as Europe falls further and further, the US will see its status as super power geting more undisputed. Europeans will have to live with another century of American dominance.

Americans don't know what socialism, quit getting cues and pointers from rightwingers, France hasn't had a socialist Prez in 2 decades yet its problems were caused by socialism? Again stupid, you never lived here and don't live here.