A Different View on AHCA

[usmbguest5318]

ISIS has killed upwards of 50,000 people over the course of their existence

I'm not terribly, if at all, in the abstract concerned about a total of 50K people (~2800/year) dying over the course of 18 years, not in a world having 7B people.

...the number of people slated to lose health insurance under the AHCA tells us that roughly 24,000 more Americans will die each year...about 17,000 additional deaths per year starting in 2018/19...

This is a considerably more shocking figure, and it's one that is disconcerting, particularly if they're all in one country or segment of society.

if the goal is to save lives.

Are you convinced that is Congress' or Trump's goal? I'm not.

Why would Bruce Poliquin vote for this bill? Why would 216 of his colleagues vote for this bill? Why would anyone vote for this bill?

See my remark immediately above.

My understanding, Xelor, is that they need the savings from the AHCA to get their tax cuts through.

That's almost certainly what motivated the House's vote. I've heard several individuals, not one of whom voted on the bill, speak of that reason for passing the AHCA.

Have any of the Representatives who voted for the AHCA made a point about that motivation? I don't know, but I'm mildly curious (not more than that) to find out if any have. I do know they aren't as keen to stress/discuss the budget-related requirement(s) as they are to promote the hoped-for healthcare/health insurance outcomes the AHCA is purported to yield.

 

[leftwinger]

Maybe our cynical Trumpsters should read this article.
52 Million Americans Have Pre-Existing Conditions
https://www.usnews.com/news/article...t-could-hinder-coverage-if-obamacare-repealed
But in the end, they won't give a shit, specifically if they don't have pre-existing conditions themselves.
Now obviously, not all who are in that pool have life threatening conditions, but for the millions that do, I guess it's "let them die".
And then around Christmas, these same posters will be outraged by the alleged "war on Christmas". Count on it.

TRUE Pre-Exisisting was always handled well. A scam to distribute $250 Asthma-Inhalers thru the Ghetto welfare system does not qualify as a legit Pre-Existing Condtion........

I don't even open the link. If expect me to believe 52/310 Americans have legit Pre-Existing (life threating illness) I will jump off the Sears Tower.

The sick Illegals sent up here eat up a lot of the available medical ............. in CA for certain.

 

[OldLady]

"I know. Universal healthcare will require a huge chunk of taxes, but I'm willing to pay it."

I am out of money. I don't want to contribute anymore. I can't and pay all the other taxes. I paid into Medicare forever while working. I had Aetna PPO once upon a time and I still paid $400 for an simple X-ray I was ordered to go get. I could not help but notice the non-English speaking crowd that filled the waiting room for 6 hours. The Cabs pulling up and dumping out "victims". Think they paid anything out of pocket?

I thought if we had universal healthcare we didn't have to pay premiums? Maybe a minor co-pay? Do people on Medicare also pay premiums? What is their co-pay for a doctor's visit? They don't have deductibles, I know that.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Maybe our cynical Trumpsters should read this article.
52 Million Americans Have Pre-Existing Conditions
https://www.usnews.com/news/article...t-could-hinder-coverage-if-obamacare-repealed
But in the end, they won't give a shit, specifically if they don't have pre-existing conditions themselves.
Now obviously, not all who are in that pool have life threatening conditions, but for the millions that do, I guess it's "let them die".
And then around Christmas, these same posters will be outraged by the alleged "war on Christmas". Count on it.

Relax, preexisting conditions are covered under AHCA.

 

[yiostheoy]

ISIS has killed upwards of 50,000 people over the course of their existence

I'm not terribly, if at all, in the abstract concerned about a total of 50K people (~2800/year) dying over the course of 18 years, not in a world having 7B people.

...the number of people slated to lose health insurance under the AHCA tells us that roughly 24,000 more Americans will die each year...about 17,000 additional deaths per year starting in 2018/19...

This is a considerably more shocking figure, and it's one that is disconcerting, particularly if they're all in one country or segment of society.

if the goal is to save lives.

Are you convinced that is Congress' or Trump's goal? I'm not.

Why would Bruce Poliquin vote for this bill? Why would 216 of his colleagues vote for this bill? Why would anyone vote for this bill?

See my remark immediately above.

My understanding, Xelor, is that they need the savings from the AHCA to get their tax cuts through.

That's almost certainly what motivated the House's vote. I've heard several individuals, not one of whom voted on the bill, speak of that reason for passing the AHCA.

Have any of the Representatives who voted for the AHCA made a point about that motivation? I don't know, but I'm mildly curious (not more than that) to find out if any have. I do know they aren't as keen to stress/discuss the budget-related requirement(s) as they are to promote the hoped-for healthcare/health insurance outcomes the AHCA is purported to yield.

OK !!!

NOW I get it !!!

ACHA -- Trumpcare !!!

Why didn't you just say "Trumpcare" in your title OldLady .

That would have been a lot more clear then.

 

[leftwinger]

"I know. Universal healthcare will require a huge chunk of taxes, but I'm willing to pay it."

I am out of money. I don't want to contribute anymore. I can't and pay all the other taxes. I paid into Medicare forever while working. I had Aetna PPO once upon a time and I still paid $400 for an simple X-ray I was ordered to go get. I could not help but notice the non-English speaking crowd that filled the waiting room for 6 hours. The Cabs pulling up and dumping out "victims". Think they paid anything out of pocket?

I thought if we had universal healthcare we didn't have to pay premiums? Maybe a minor co-pay? Do people on Medicare also pay premiums? What is their co-pay for a doctor's visit? They don't have deductibles, I know that.

I thought if we had universal healthcare we didn't have to pay premiums? Maybe a minor co-pay? Do people on Medicare also pay premiums? What is their co-pay for a doctor's visit? They don't have deductibles, I know that.

I don't know about Medicare. I hear some stories that you still have to buy some sort of "policy" along with Medicare. Like 20% or your costs or some amount? I hope to see answers in your thread. Thanks.

 

[usmbguest5318]

ISIS has killed upwards of 50,000 people over the course of their existence

I'm not terribly, if at all, in the abstract concerned about a total of 50K people (~2800/year) dying over the course of 18 years, not in a world having 7B people.

...the number of people slated to lose health insurance under the AHCA tells us that roughly 24,000 more Americans will die each year...about 17,000 additional deaths per year starting in 2018/19...

This is a considerably more shocking figure, and it's one that is disconcerting, particularly if they're all in one country or segment of society.

if the goal is to save lives.

Are you convinced that is Congress' or Trump's goal? I'm not.

Why would Bruce Poliquin vote for this bill? Why would 216 of his colleagues vote for this bill? Why would anyone vote for this bill?

See my remark immediately above.

My understanding, Xelor, is that they need the savings from the AHCA to get their tax cuts through.

That's almost certainly what motivated the House's vote. I've heard several individuals, not one of whom voted on the bill, speak of that reason for passing the AHCA.

Have any of the Representatives who voted for the AHCA made a point about that motivation? I don't know, but I'm mildly curious (not more than that) to find out if any have. I do know they aren't as keen to stress/discuss the budget-related requirement(s) as they are to promote the hoped-for healthcare/health insurance outcomes the AHCA is purported to yield.

OK !!!

NOW I get it !!!

ACHA -- Trumpcare !!!

Why didn't you just say "Trumpcare" in your title OldLady .

That would have been a lot more clear then.

I'm truly hoping that whole post was meant as a joke. But I have to post this just to be sure because you've put nothing in the post that clearly indicates it is, on here, one just cannot be sure when someone's serious and when they're joking.

 

[g5000]

The Republican healthcare plan would cause more American deaths than terrorism

Lightning kills more Americans than terrorism.

But that doesn't fit into the bigots' narrative.

EEK! A MUSLIM!

EEK! A MEXICAN!

EEK! A HOMO!

EEK! A NEGRO!

 

[OldLady]

"I know. Universal healthcare will require a huge chunk of taxes, but I'm willing to pay it."

I am out of money. I don't want to contribute anymore. I can't and pay all the other taxes. I paid into Medicare forever while working. I had Aetna PPO once upon a time and I still paid $400 for an simple X-ray I was ordered to go get. I could not help but notice the non-English speaking crowd that filled the waiting room for 6 hours. The Cabs pulling up and dumping out "victims". Think they paid anything out of pocket?

I'm sorry, Old Yeller, I'm kinda in the same circumstances myself. The increased taxes will be awful, but I'd have insurance and so would everyone else, not piecemeal depending on what state you lived in or by having to go the state offices and tell them your life's financial story, but just because you're alive and kicking and a US citizen.
Instead of using outrageously priced ER's for those without insurance, free health clinics would be a lot cheaper for non emergency problems. We don't have any around here, and we have a lot of uninsured people. Our doctors also don't cover on the weekends and nights; they tell you to go to the ER, which is outrageous if you just need an antibiotic. I've had to use the ER twice for that. What overkill!

 

[toomuchtime_]

"I know. Universal healthcare will require a huge chunk of taxes, but I'm willing to pay it."

I am out of money. I don't want to contribute anymore. I can't and pay all the other taxes. I paid into Medicare forever while working. I had Aetna PPO once upon a time and I still paid $400 for an simple X-ray I was ordered to go get. I could not help but notice the non-English speaking crowd that filled the waiting room for 6 hours. The Cabs pulling up and dumping out "victims". Think they paid anything out of pocket?

I'm sorry, Old Yeller, I'm kinda in the same circumstances myself. The increased taxes will be awful, but I'd have insurance and so would everyone else, not piecemeal depending on what state you lived in or by having to go the state offices and tell them your life's financial story, but just because you're alive and kicking and a US citizen.
Instead of using outrageously priced ER's for those without insurance, free health clinics would be a lot cheaper for non emergency problems. We don't have any around here, and we have a lot of uninsured people. Our doctors also don't cover on the weekends and nights; they tell you to go to the ER, which is outrageous if you just need an antibiotic. I've had to use the ER twice for that. What overkill!

Unless you live in a rural area, there is likely a free health clinic near you and was even as Obama claimed everyone without insurance would have to go to ER's.

https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/

 

[OldLady]

For all you conservatives screaming about the dangers of terrorism, take a minute to read this. In my local paper this morning; I found it an interesting perspective.

The Republican healthcare plan would cause more American deaths than terrorism
May 5, 2017
By Phoenix McLaughlin

Of all the threats to American lives, few frighten the country more than terrorism. Thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of people elsewhere in the world have lost their lives to terrorism over the past two decades. ISIS has killed upwards of 50,000 people over the course of their existence, one or two hundred of whom were American, and al Qaeda has killed over 4,000, most of whom were American. The fight against these groups has consumed much of the U.S. government since 9/11, and it continues to be a top worry of the American people.

But if it’s the loss of American life we’re afraid of, we may need to change our priorities. The Republican Party really put things in perspective for all of us on Thursday, when they passed the American Health Care Act through the House of Representatives. It is a remarkable plan to deny millions of Americans healthcare. The Congressional Budget Office said the original plan would cause 24 million Americans to lose their health insurance by 2026, and 14 million would lose it just in 2018. While the CBO hasn’t had time to score the mildly revised plan, there’s little in it that is likely to reverse those numbers.

As you might imagine, not having health insurance means not having good healthcare. It doesn’t just mean higher bills or even bankruptcy—it means people will not get treated for their problems. And that means people are more likely to die from illness and injury. As it turns out, there is research that confirms this. Studies from the National Institutes of Health, New England Journal of Medicine, and Annals of Internal Medicine, for instance, all found that lack of health insurance significantly increased the likelihood of death. The level of mortality rate increase varied across the studies, but applying the most conservative of the estimates to the the number of people slated to lose health insurance under the AHCA tells us that roughly 24,000 more Americans will die each year. That calculation is based on 20 million people losing insurance, so we would be looking at about 17,000 additional deaths per year starting in 2018/19, once 14 million people lose insurance, and about 29,000 by 2026, when 24 million have lost it.

I must say, part of my job entails researching ways to beat violent extremism, and it feels a bit pointless in comparison. Trying to keep the Senate from passing the AHCA in its current form might be a more worthwhile endeavor if the goal is to save lives.

It’s hard to think of what bill the House could have passed that would kill more Americans than this. A declaration of war probably wouldn’t have done it. The AHCA will lead to more American deaths per year than any war since WWII. Even Vietnam, seen in retrospect as such a disastrous conflict, had a peak of 16,899 American deaths in one year. That’s akin to year one of the AHCA.

Why would Bruce Poliquin vote for this bill? Why would 216 of his colleagues vote for this bill? Why would anyone vote for this bill?

About Phoenix McLaughlin
Phoenix McLaughlin works at the National Endowment for Democracy helping to foster political development in Asia. Phoenix lives in Washington, D.C. now, but was born and raised in Norway, Maine. In between, he has studied and/or worked in Colorado, Nepal, India, France, Ethiopia, and Augusta. All opinions expressed on this blog are solely his own and do not represent his current or former employers.

There simply is no basis in fact or logic for claiming large numbers of people will lose their health insurance under this plan. Your local paper did a disservice to its readers by trying to pass off this piece of dishonest propaganda as journalism.

It was in the Op Ed section, not a news article. My paper is pretty straight shooting as far as reporting the facts, thank you very much.

I am quite alarmed that the CBO is so completely inept that everyone is saying this is not going to happen, not a single person will lose their coverage and that Medicaid is not being cut, when it is common knowledge 800 mil is being cut from Medicaid. I'm not sure who's living in Oz here. I'm not going to argue about it, but the numbers I have been hearing right along about the new AHCA should not be in basic dispute. What should be happening is a discussion about how to solve those problems.

 

[g5000]

Donald Trump and the pseudo-Republicans can thump their chests all they like if they ever manage to pass some piece of shit legislation they will have the audacity to call a "repeal and replacement of ObamaCare." They can pound down some crab cakes and beer and laugh their asses off.

Right up to the moment the American people get the highest insurance bill of their lives in the mail.

Then the torches and pitchforks will be coming for the weaseling, cowardly fucks.

 

[OldLady]

"I know. Universal healthcare will require a huge chunk of taxes, but I'm willing to pay it."

I am out of money. I don't want to contribute anymore. I can't and pay all the other taxes. I paid into Medicare forever while working. I had Aetna PPO once upon a time and I still paid $400 for an simple X-ray I was ordered to go get. I could not help but notice the non-English speaking crowd that filled the waiting room for 6 hours. The Cabs pulling up and dumping out "victims". Think they paid anything out of pocket?

I thought if we had universal healthcare we didn't have to pay premiums? Maybe a minor co-pay? Do people on Medicare also pay premiums? What is their co-pay for a doctor's visit? They don't have deductibles, I know that.

I thought if we had universal healthcare we didn't have to pay premiums? Maybe a minor co-pay? Do people on Medicare also pay premiums? What is their co-pay for a doctor's visit? They don't have deductibles, I know that.

I don't know about Medicare. I hear some stories that you still have to buy some sort of "policy" along with Medicare. Like 20% or your costs or some amount? I hope to see answers in your thread. Thanks.

There is supplemental insurance you can buy on the private market to cover the 20% Medicare doesn't pay. That is not a government plan; it is also not a requirement. If you don't want to get stuck with a $400 xray at the ER like you did, it might be worth investing in, if you can. It is not cheap. A friend of mine has it and it has gone up to almost $200 per month.

 

[leftwinger]

Why didn't you just say "Trumpcare" in your title OldLady .

Or you could call it "ObamaCare" lite. "reparied ObamaCare". New and improved.


I keep hearing ObamaCare was collapsing. Supposedly Iowa insurers have ran away

"I know. Universal healthcare will require a huge chunk of taxes, but I'm willing to pay it."

I am out of money. I don't want to contribute anymore. I can't and pay all the other taxes. I paid into Medicare forever while working. I had Aetna PPO once upon a time and I still paid $400 for an simple X-ray I was ordered to go get. I could not help but notice the non-English speaking crowd that filled the waiting room for 6 hours. The Cabs pulling up and dumping out "victims". Think they paid anything out of pocket?

I'm sorry, Old Yeller, I'm kinda in the same circumstances myself. The increased taxes will be awful, but I'd have insurance and so would everyone else, not piecemeal depending on what state you lived in or by having to go the state offices and tell them your life's financial story, but just because you're alive and kicking and a US citizen.
Instead of using outrageously priced ER's for those without insurance, free health clinics would be a lot cheaper for non emergency problems. We don't have any around here, and we have a lot of uninsured people. Our doctors also don't cover on the weekends and nights; they tell you to go to the ER, which is outrageous if you just need an antibiotic. I've had to use the ER twice for that. What overkill!

Instead of using outrageously priced ER's for those without insurance, free health clinics would be a lot cheaper for non emergency problems.

I think you meant "Urgent Care"? I have not seen a Free Clinic in a while? Last one I heard of was handing out free needles up at Haight-Ashbury? Maybe seen a Dental Mobile RV clinic?

You are correct. They are almost there anyways...to "GOVT ran Universal Health Care". Might as well go "all-in" and let it be.
Just one more thing........I want to see Nancy Pelosi and John Bohner sitting in the same waiting room for hours as we do. One size fits all. For ALL.

 

[OldLady]

"I know. Universal healthcare will require a huge chunk of taxes, but I'm willing to pay it."

I am out of money. I don't want to contribute anymore. I can't and pay all the other taxes. I paid into Medicare forever while working. I had Aetna PPO once upon a time and I still paid $400 for an simple X-ray I was ordered to go get. I could not help but notice the non-English speaking crowd that filled the waiting room for 6 hours. The Cabs pulling up and dumping out "victims". Think they paid anything out of pocket?

I'm sorry, Old Yeller, I'm kinda in the same circumstances myself. The increased taxes will be awful, but I'd have insurance and so would everyone else, not piecemeal depending on what state you lived in or by having to go the state offices and tell them your life's financial story, but just because you're alive and kicking and a US citizen.
Instead of using outrageously priced ER's for those without insurance, free health clinics would be a lot cheaper for non emergency problems. We don't have any around here, and we have a lot of uninsured people. Our doctors also don't cover on the weekends and nights; they tell you to go to the ER, which is outrageous if you just need an antibiotic. I've had to use the ER twice for that. What overkill!

Unless you live in a rural area, there is likely a free health clinic near you and was even as Obama claimed everyone without insurance would have to go to ER's.

https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/

I DO live in a rural area, Too Much. What I was describing is accurate.

 

[OldLady]

The Republican healthcare plan would cause more American deaths than terrorism

Lightning kills more Americans than terrorism.

But that doesn't fit into the bigots' narrative.

EEK! A MUSLIM!

EEK! A MEXICAN!

EEK! A HOMO!

EEK! A NEGRO!

Not everyone here is a bigot.

 

[toomuchtime_]

For all you conservatives screaming about the dangers of terrorism, take a minute to read this. In my local paper this morning; I found it an interesting perspective.

The Republican healthcare plan would cause more American deaths than terrorism
May 5, 2017
By Phoenix McLaughlin

Of all the threats to American lives, few frighten the country more than terrorism. Thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of people elsewhere in the world have lost their lives to terrorism over the past two decades. ISIS has killed upwards of 50,000 people over the course of their existence, one or two hundred of whom were American, and al Qaeda has killed over 4,000, most of whom were American. The fight against these groups has consumed much of the U.S. government since 9/11, and it continues to be a top worry of the American people.

But if it’s the loss of American life we’re afraid of, we may need to change our priorities. The Republican Party really put things in perspective for all of us on Thursday, when they passed the American Health Care Act through the House of Representatives. It is a remarkable plan to deny millions of Americans healthcare. The Congressional Budget Office said the original plan would cause 24 million Americans to lose their health insurance by 2026, and 14 million would lose it just in 2018. While the CBO hasn’t had time to score the mildly revised plan, there’s little in it that is likely to reverse those numbers.

As you might imagine, not having health insurance means not having good healthcare. It doesn’t just mean higher bills or even bankruptcy—it means people will not get treated for their problems. And that means people are more likely to die from illness and injury. As it turns out, there is research that confirms this. Studies from the National Institutes of Health, New England Journal of Medicine, and Annals of Internal Medicine, for instance, all found that lack of health insurance significantly increased the likelihood of death. The level of mortality rate increase varied across the studies, but applying the most conservative of the estimates to the the number of people slated to lose health insurance under the AHCA tells us that roughly 24,000 more Americans will die each year. That calculation is based on 20 million people losing insurance, so we would be looking at about 17,000 additional deaths per year starting in 2018/19, once 14 million people lose insurance, and about 29,000 by 2026, when 24 million have lost it.

I must say, part of my job entails researching ways to beat violent extremism, and it feels a bit pointless in comparison. Trying to keep the Senate from passing the AHCA in its current form might be a more worthwhile endeavor if the goal is to save lives.

It’s hard to think of what bill the House could have passed that would kill more Americans than this. A declaration of war probably wouldn’t have done it. The AHCA will lead to more American deaths per year than any war since WWII. Even Vietnam, seen in retrospect as such a disastrous conflict, had a peak of 16,899 American deaths in one year. That’s akin to year one of the AHCA.

Why would Bruce Poliquin vote for this bill? Why would 216 of his colleagues vote for this bill? Why would anyone vote for this bill?

About Phoenix McLaughlin
Phoenix McLaughlin works at the National Endowment for Democracy helping to foster political development in Asia. Phoenix lives in Washington, D.C. now, but was born and raised in Norway, Maine. In between, he has studied and/or worked in Colorado, Nepal, India, France, Ethiopia, and Augusta. All opinions expressed on this blog are solely his own and do not represent his current or former employers.

There simply is no basis in fact or logic for claiming large numbers of people will lose their health insurance under this plan. Your local paper did a disservice to its readers by trying to pass off this piece of dishonest propaganda as journalism.

It was in the Op Ed section, not a news article. My paper is pretty straight shooting as far as reporting the facts, thank you very much.

I am quite alarmed that the CBO is so completely inept that everyone is saying this is not going to happen, not a single person will lose their coverage and that Medicaid is not being cut, when it is common knowledge 800 mil is being cut from Medicaid. I'm not sure who's living in Oz here. I'm not going to argue about it, but the numbers I have been hearing right along about the new AHCA should not be in basic dispute. What should be happening is a discussion about how to solve those problems.

The CBO analysis of the first bill did not and could not consider the effect of the block grants to the states, so its numbers were meaningless. Anyone who cites the CBO numbers to criticize the current plan is either ignorant or dishonest.

Similarly, the people who claim $880 billion is being cut from Medicaid are either ignorant or dishonest. It is an estimate of how much will be saved over ten years by not accepting new enrollees under the Obama expansion of Medicaid; it does not touch the benefits or the number of new enrollees under regular Medicaid.

Again, there is no basis in fact or logic for claiming large numbers of people will lose their insurance coverage under AHCA. Just as supporters of Obamacare lied their asses off to get it passed, they are now lying their asses off to prevent reforms to our healthcare system.

 

[toomuchtime_]

"I know. Universal healthcare will require a huge chunk of taxes, but I'm willing to pay it."

I am out of money. I don't want to contribute anymore. I can't and pay all the other taxes. I paid into Medicare forever while working. I had Aetna PPO once upon a time and I still paid $400 for an simple X-ray I was ordered to go get. I could not help but notice the non-English speaking crowd that filled the waiting room for 6 hours. The Cabs pulling up and dumping out "victims". Think they paid anything out of pocket?

I'm sorry, Old Yeller, I'm kinda in the same circumstances myself. The increased taxes will be awful, but I'd have insurance and so would everyone else, not piecemeal depending on what state you lived in or by having to go the state offices and tell them your life's financial story, but just because you're alive and kicking and a US citizen.
Instead of using outrageously priced ER's for those without insurance, free health clinics would be a lot cheaper for non emergency problems. We don't have any around here, and we have a lot of uninsured people. Our doctors also don't cover on the weekends and nights; they tell you to go to the ER, which is outrageous if you just need an antibiotic. I've had to use the ER twice for that. What overkill!

Unless you live in a rural area, there is likely a free health clinic near you and was even as Obama claimed everyone without insurance would have to go to ER's.

https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/

I DO live in a rural area, Too Much. What I was describing is accurate.

Then, sorry to say, you are just a footnote to whatever healthcare plan we have.

 

[OldLady]

Why didn't you just say "Trumpcare" in your title OldLady .

Or you could call it "ObamaCare" lite. "reparied ObamaCare". New and improved.


I keep hearing ObamaCare was collapsing. Supposedly Iowa insurers have ran away

"I know. Universal healthcare will require a huge chunk of taxes, but I'm willing to pay it."

I am out of money. I don't want to contribute anymore. I can't and pay all the other taxes. I paid into Medicare forever while working. I had Aetna PPO once upon a time and I still paid $400 for an simple X-ray I was ordered to go get. I could not help but notice the non-English speaking crowd that filled the waiting room for 6 hours. The Cabs pulling up and dumping out "victims". Think they paid anything out of pocket?

I'm sorry, Old Yeller, I'm kinda in the same circumstances myself. The increased taxes will be awful, but I'd have insurance and so would everyone else, not piecemeal depending on what state you lived in or by having to go the state offices and tell them your life's financial story, but just because you're alive and kicking and a US citizen.
Instead of using outrageously priced ER's for those without insurance, free health clinics would be a lot cheaper for non emergency problems. We don't have any around here, and we have a lot of uninsured people. Our doctors also don't cover on the weekends and nights; they tell you to go to the ER, which is outrageous if you just need an antibiotic. I've had to use the ER twice for that. What overkill!

Instead of using outrageously priced ER's for those without insurance, free health clinics would be a lot cheaper for non emergency problems.

I think you meant "Urgent Care"? I have not seen a Free Clinic in a while? Last one I heard of was handing out free needles up at Haight-Ashbury? Maybe seen a Dental Mobile RV clinic?

You are correct. They are almost there anyways...to "GOVT ran Universal Health Care". Might as well go "all-in" and let it be.
Just one more thing........I want to see Nancy Pelosi and John Bohner sitting in the same waiting room for hours as we do. One size fits all. For ALL.

I'd like to see the Senators and Congressmen and the WH staff all covered by AHCA. too. Of course, they can afford it, unlike most of us. LOL
Since the vast majority of people are covered by their employers, like the Congress, this healthcare plan doesn't affect the majority of Americans, so all the current hype is partly more Democratic mud slinging and bitching. But the plan doesn't sound so hot even when described by the Republicans. I know our Republican senator is not "sold" on it.

 

[OldLady]

For all you conservatives screaming about the dangers of terrorism, take a minute to read this. In my local paper this morning; I found it an interesting perspective.

The Republican healthcare plan would cause more American deaths than terrorism
May 5, 2017
By Phoenix McLaughlin

Of all the threats to American lives, few frighten the country more than terrorism. Thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of people elsewhere in the world have lost their lives to terrorism over the past two decades. ISIS has killed upwards of 50,000 people over the course of their existence, one or two hundred of whom were American, and al Qaeda has killed over 4,000, most of whom were American. The fight against these groups has consumed much of the U.S. government since 9/11, and it continues to be a top worry of the American people.

But if it’s the loss of American life we’re afraid of, we may need to change our priorities. The Republican Party really put things in perspective for all of us on Thursday, when they passed the American Health Care Act through the House of Representatives. It is a remarkable plan to deny millions of Americans healthcare. The Congressional Budget Office said the original plan would cause 24 million Americans to lose their health insurance by 2026, and 14 million would lose it just in 2018. While the CBO hasn’t had time to score the mildly revised plan, there’s little in it that is likely to reverse those numbers.

As you might imagine, not having health insurance means not having good healthcare. It doesn’t just mean higher bills or even bankruptcy—it means people will not get treated for their problems. And that means people are more likely to die from illness and injury. As it turns out, there is research that confirms this. Studies from the National Institutes of Health, New England Journal of Medicine, and Annals of Internal Medicine, for instance, all found that lack of health insurance significantly increased the likelihood of death. The level of mortality rate increase varied across the studies, but applying the most conservative of the estimates to the the number of people slated to lose health insurance under the AHCA tells us that roughly 24,000 more Americans will die each year. That calculation is based on 20 million people losing insurance, so we would be looking at about 17,000 additional deaths per year starting in 2018/19, once 14 million people lose insurance, and about 29,000 by 2026, when 24 million have lost it.

I must say, part of my job entails researching ways to beat violent extremism, and it feels a bit pointless in comparison. Trying to keep the Senate from passing the AHCA in its current form might be a more worthwhile endeavor if the goal is to save lives.

It’s hard to think of what bill the House could have passed that would kill more Americans than this. A declaration of war probably wouldn’t have done it. The AHCA will lead to more American deaths per year than any war since WWII. Even Vietnam, seen in retrospect as such a disastrous conflict, had a peak of 16,899 American deaths in one year. That’s akin to year one of the AHCA.

Why would Bruce Poliquin vote for this bill? Why would 216 of his colleagues vote for this bill? Why would anyone vote for this bill?

About Phoenix McLaughlin
Phoenix McLaughlin works at the National Endowment for Democracy helping to foster political development in Asia. Phoenix lives in Washington, D.C. now, but was born and raised in Norway, Maine. In between, he has studied and/or worked in Colorado, Nepal, India, France, Ethiopia, and Augusta. All opinions expressed on this blog are solely his own and do not represent his current or former employers.

There simply is no basis in fact or logic for claiming large numbers of people will lose their health insurance under this plan. Your local paper did a disservice to its readers by trying to pass off this piece of dishonest propaganda as journalism.

It was in the Op Ed section, not a news article. My paper is pretty straight shooting as far as reporting the facts, thank you very much.

I am quite alarmed that the CBO is so completely inept that everyone is saying this is not going to happen, not a single person will lose their coverage and that Medicaid is not being cut, when it is common knowledge 800 mil is being cut from Medicaid. I'm not sure who's living in Oz here. I'm not going to argue about it, but the numbers I have been hearing right along about the new AHCA should not be in basic dispute. What should be happening is a discussion about how to solve those problems.

The CBO analysis of the first bill did not and could not consider the effect of the block grants to the states, so its numbers were meaningless. Anyone who cites the CBO numbers to criticize the current plan is either ignorant or dishonest.

Similarly, the people who claim $880 billion is being cut from Medicaid are either ignorant or dishonest. It is an estimate of how much will be saved over ten years by not accepting new enrollees under the Obama expansion of Medicaid; it does not touch the benefits or the number of new enrollees under regular Medicaid.

Again, there is no basis in fact or logic for claiming large numbers of people will lose their insurance coverage under AHCA. Just as supporters of Obamacare lied their asses off to get it passed, they are now lying their asses off to prevent reforms to our healthcare system.

Those people not being accepted by Medicaid over the next ten years will be without insurance, though, correct? Is that what the CBO is expecting? There is no way I could afford to pay for healthcare with a $12,000 yearly deductible. It's the same as having no insurance at all.