95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

[Trajan]

Are you claiming our soldiers are a bunch of mamby pambies afraid to be seen by a gay man?

In civilian life..

- Do they have seperate restrooms for gays?
- Gay athletes openly shower with straight atheletes
- Health clubs have openly gay members shower with straight members

Why is it our soldiers are suddenly so sensitive?

is there co-ed showering in say any of those places?

What difference does it make? Women shower with women...men shower with men

there are gays showering in highschool and college athletics, healthclubs, beach clubs. Civilians seem to be able to do it. Why is the military so afraid? Other NATO forces have no problem with it

pardon me, but your examples,blow. It has apparently not struck you yet, so let me help you; these people live togehter and on top of one another, no pun intended.Their sexual proclivities will be known in very short order, whether they tell them straight out or not.

Further and most importantly-

you seem to be stuck on "GAY", either because you wish to browbeat the "homophobes in the military" or you have not thought this out, at all....it has zip do with personal sexual mores/choices, it has to do with human sexuality.

Are women namby pamby because they don't wish to shower with men? in say a gym at high school, college, health clubs? Professional sports?etc.?



some men may feel just as uncomfortable showering with someone who sees them as a sexual creature, as a woman would if made to shower with men..... Or do gay men have no libido or are somehow less sexually stimulated or are more reserved ala a man and woman vis versa those situations....?

 

[Seawytch]

Integration of Negro and White TroopsU.S. Army, Europe, 1952-1954

Integration of Negro and White Troops in the U.S. Army, Europe, 1952-1954

Idiotic comparison rdean

Race = biologically determined and 100% natural and normal.

Homosexuality = chosen/learned behavior and abnormal

Your strawman response does not address the discrimination which is 100% comparable and eerily similar.

The military was overwhelmingly against integration in the armed forces. There were even surveys done of the military that show this. Were they justified in their bigotry as you think you are?


An Overwhelming Majority of men feel that black and white soldiers should be separated during and after training

 

[Seawytch]

From Gays in the Showers, Oh My!

[...]

So let’s examine the issue in a rational way. The cultural norm in this country has always been: men shower with men, and women shower with women. It is unusual, even for opposite sex couples, married or otherwise, to shower together as a part of normal, daily life (excepting when it’s part of sexual play). This means that it’s quite rare for men to shower with women, but extremely common for men to shower with other men, and women to shower with other women. Thus gay men have been showering with straight men all along; and lesbians have been showering with straight women. To a gay man or woman, it’s not a unique situation to shower with someone of the same gender. Consequently, instances of ogling, misbehavior and harrassment are relatively rare. Reducing this fact to a soundbite, one could say, “Been there, done that, no big deal.” But for a heterosexual man, showering with a woman would be considered a rare treat, indeed. Straight men can readily identify their own sexual interest in that situation and thus project that interest onto gay guys. After all, the thinking goes, men are men. Thus the heterosexual serviceman assumes that the gay serviceman will have the same interest in him as he would in a woman in the shower. He doesn’t consider the reality of the situation that gay men have been in showers with him all along, both in the military before he joined the military. If he understands DADT (which few do), he would know both the law and DoD regulations say the gay guy can be in the shower with him — and so he has been.

In fact, under DADT, gays have been in the showers with their heterosexual counterparts; they’ve shared the same barracks, berthing spaces, workspaces, foxholes, humvees, tanks, tents, and every other situation where privacy is comprised and the enforced togetherness of the military prevails. Has there been a problem? Not so far as I can tell. The instances of same-sex harrassment are extremely rare. [...]

On a more practical level, open showers in the military are fairly uncommon these days. A recent Zobgy International poll of combat veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan found that 71% of the troops always or usually showered privately, whereas only 8% always or usually showered in groups. Additionally, when one takes a shower is often discretionary. So if a heterosexual service member is concerned about taking a shower with a gay guy, he/she can take the shower when the known or suspected gay member is not there. Taking this latter tact even further, one might facetiously argue that someone who is “uncomfortable” in the presence of gays would want gays to be able to serve openly so that they’d know exactly who to avoid in the shower. [...]

For the policy-makers in the Pentagon, the question comes down to this: is a simple shower, something that takes maybe five minutes a day and can usually be scheduled at one’s discretion, reason enough to force tens of thousands of otherwise capable service men and women to lie and to fear having their paycheck and job security terminated? When more than two-thirds of combat troops report that they know or suspect there is a gay person in their unit, yet they continue to perform admirably on the field of battle, does the nation still need DADT?

The $2 solution to this homophobia...

 

[Sunni Man]

Just face it.

Normal soldiers do not want to be around sodomite soldiers.

It's really that simple.

 

[rightwinger]

When I was in the military, I was stationed in Baumholder, Germany. When I went to Garmisch for vacation, the steam rooms, the sauna and the showers were all coed. Only the locker rooms were separate. No one cared.

I can't believe that we are blocking gay Americans from serving their country because of showers

No, it's because they are queers and no one wants to be around them.

So, whats your point?

Nobody wants to be around you either

 

[rightwinger]

is there co-ed showering in say any of those places?

What difference does it make? Women shower with women...men shower with men

there are gays showering in highschool and college athletics, healthclubs, beach clubs. Civilians seem to be able to do it. Why is the military so afraid? Other NATO forces have no problem with it

pardon me, but your examples,blow. It has apparently not struck you yet, so let me help you; these people live togehter and on top of one another, no pun intended.Their sexual proclivities will be known in very short order, whether they tell them straight out or not.

Further and most importantly-

you seem to be stuck on "GAY", either because you wish to browbeat the "homophobes in the military" or you have not thought this out, at all....it has zip do with personal sexual mores/choices, it has to do with human sexuality.

Are women namby pamby because they don't wish to shower with men? in say a gym at high school, college, health clubs? Professional sports?etc.?



some men may feel just as uncomfortable showering with someone who sees them as a sexual creature, as a woman would if made to shower with men..... Or do gay men have no libido or are somehow less sexually stimulated or are more reserved ala a man and woman vis versa those situations....?

The simple answer is ....So what?

You have a problem showering with gays? Your problem pal
The military has always dealt with soldiers who are hesitant to shower with a group of other soldiers. Their solution to those soldiers who were sensitive to showering with others was simple.......Get the fuck in the shower

Soldiers with male parts shower with other soldiers with mens parts
Soldiers with womens parts shower with other soldiers with womens parts

Just like in the rest of the country

It ain't hard