87% or 1.4 billion Muslims are NOT affected by the TEMPORARY TRAVEL BAN. Not much of a "MUSLIM BAN"

[Derelict_Drvr]

All of those prior attackers are dead, and those countries are trying or have already beefed up both their border security or their tracking of their own radicals.

And Iraq hasn't?

Considering they still have fighting going on in country, no they have not.

So why is Trump willing to let Syrian Christians in?

Who knows? and it isn't an automatic "in", they just get to go to the front of the line, which will probably be the same situation when the moratorium is lifted in 90 days.

He's giving Christians special privileges because it's a MUSLIM ban.

Christian can't come in either.

"Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions... to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual’s country of nationality."

PROTECTING the Nation from Foreign Terrorist Entry into the United States | U.S. Virtual Embassy Iran

 

[GaryDog]

fair point. Jan 2016 Trump was talking about a Muslim Ban, which is probably where many of today's attacks are coming from. The current EO isn't a Muslim Ban, it is a travel and refugee Ban in high risk countries. It's understandable how this is all getting conflated

You have to treat his earlier and even later positions, posts, and tweets as the political neophyte he was/is. He is getting better at being "political" but you still get some doozies from time to time.

Personally, I don't trust anything he says. It's a common problem in DC and our politics with many of our representatives. Unfortunately, the trust along with honesty and integrity with the Trump administration is continuing to spiral downwards with they way they act.

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

LMAO, please. The wall will be reimbursed? Uh-uh. Not what he said in the campaign, and it's not even what's going to be happen Any tarriffs or taxes will be paid by U.S. taxpayers.

It remains to be seen. Hell all he could even mandate that all seized drug $$ found coming or going to Mexico be detailed for the wall.

Considering that's the best you got as a response, and it means that the Wall would have been built, I wouldn't claim it as much of a victory. Hell, the wall's high end cost is 10-20 billion, which is what the Feds spend in TWO DAYS of normal operation.

And all of that drug money would've been seized anyway, and used for something else. The feds spend 10-20 billion in two days of normal operation? So what, we shut down the entire federal government for 2 days to pay for the wall?

All of that STILL translates to "Trump lied about being able to make mexico pay for the wall."

And no, that's not the best I've got. We've still got Trump's childlike claims that he'll stop crime, stop terrorism, bring back manufacturing jobs, etc. etc. etc. The list is really way too long for one off-the-cuff reply to someone who's definitely consumed too much kool aid.

 

[hadit]

You have to treat his earlier and even later positions, posts, and tweets as the political neophyte he was/is. He is getting better at being "political" but you still get some doozies from time to time.

Personally, I don't trust anything he says. It's a common problem in DC and our politics with many of our representatives. Unfortunately, the trust along with honesty and integrity with the Trump administration is continuing to spiral downwards with they way they act.

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

LMAO, please. The wall will be reimbursed? Uh-uh. Not what he said in the campaign, and it's not even what's going to be happen Any tarriffs or taxes will be paid by U.S. taxpayers.

It remains to be seen. Hell all he could even mandate that all seized drug $$ found coming or going to Mexico be detailed for the wall.

Considering that's the best you got as a response, and it means that the Wall would have been built, I wouldn't claim it as much of a victory. Hell, the wall's high end cost is 10-20 billion, which is what the Feds spend in TWO DAYS of normal operation.

And all of that drug money would've been seized anyway, and used for something else. The feds spend 10-20 billion in two days of normal operation? So what, we shut down the entire federal government for 2 days to pay for the wall?

All of that STILL translates to "Trump lied about being able to make mexico pay for the wall."

And no, that's not the best I've got. We've still got Trump's childlike claims that he'll stop crime, stop terrorism, bring back manufacturing jobs, etc. etc. etc. The list is really way too long for one off-the-cuff reply to someone who's definitely consumed too much kool aid.

Every new president makes grandiose claims. Remember when Obama said his inauguration would mark the day the seas stopped rising? Trump is just following in the grand tradition of politicians.

 

[Slade3200]

That doesn't justify or strengthen your argument. You can't call an administration completely incompetent then lean on their action to justify the current actions. Just own it and don't try and hide behind Obama... it's laughable

Where have I ever called Obama's administration incompetent? I didn't like his political views or goals, or his handling of various issues (actually most issues).

I wasn't talking about you, i was talking about Trump and his surrogates. It was perhaps the biggest talking point during his campaign.

Ok, so they took some framework left by Obama and "improved" on it. Why would that make it such a big deal calling them incompetent?

There is just no point hiding behind Obama, given their insulting attacks and ZERO acknowledgement of smart or effective Foreign policy actions from his administration. It's obvious what they are trying to do, but it's counter productive. It's like saying Betty is the worst cook ever and then cooking a dinner using one of Betty's recipes and trying to gain credibility for its quality by citing that it is a Betty recipe. The IRONY is thick.

They would be better off keeping Obama name out of it and just justifying their decision for the reasons they made it.

When was the last time a current, new party administration has heaped praises on the previous, other party administration?

And in your example, one can say it isn't the Recipes', fault, Betty is just a shitty cook.

I wouldn't bring Betty up in the conversation. Trump isn't praising Obama, he is hiding behind his actions to try and silence his opposers. People are critiquing Trump for not including Saudi Araba and Pakistan in his EO and he is responding that these countries were selected by Obama. I get why he is doing that but it is just laughable giving his past statements about Obamas foreign policy. Do you really not see the irony in this?

 

[martybegan]

He's attempting a "gotcha" moment with Hillary. The fact you had to go back to January of 2016 for it is telling.

fair point. Jan 2016 Trump was talking about a Muslim Ban, which is probably where many of today's attacks are coming from. The current EO isn't a Muslim Ban, it is a travel and refugee Ban in high risk countries. It's understandable how this is all getting conflated

You have to treat his earlier and even later positions, posts, and tweets as the political neophyte he was/is. He is getting better at being "political" but you still get some doozies from time to time.

Personally, I don't trust anything he says. It's a common problem in DC and our politics with many of our representatives. Unfortunately, the trust along with honesty and integrity with the Trump administration is continuing to spiral downwards with they way they act.

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

Agreed. He is following through with the things that he said during his campaign. That doesn't make him honest though, his campaign and now his presidency is littered with lies and manipulation.
To what ends is it justifiable to progress your agenda? It may be easy for you or his supporters to turn a blind eye because it progresses causes you support, but imagine if you didn't support an action, or feel it dangerous to your livelihood, how do you think you'd react to his methodology... Not good.

All current politics is lies, manipulations, exaggerations, character attacks and fainting flowers. At least he is trying to follow through on his promises, and unlike other Republicans, not backing down when challenged.

My issue isn't that people are upset by his actions, I understand that. My issue is they are upset without knowing what is actually happening, or actually being impacted.

The people detained at the airport who had valid green cards have a right to be pissed. Some gender neutral fuckwit in Bushwick? Not so much.

 

[NYcarbineer]

And Iraq hasn't?

Considering they still have fighting going on in country, no they have not.

So why is Trump willing to let Syrian Christians in?

Who knows? and it isn't an automatic "in", they just get to go to the front of the line, which will probably be the same situation when the moratorium is lifted in 90 days.

He's giving Christians special privileges because it's a MUSLIM ban.

Christian can't come in either.

"Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions... to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual’s country of nationality."

PROTECTING the Nation from Foreign Terrorist Entry into the United States | U.S. Virtual Embassy Iran

Wrong:

(e) Notwithstanding the temporary suspension imposed pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may jointly determine to admit individuals to the United States as refugees on a case-by-case basis, in their discretion, but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest -- including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution....

'Religous minority', as in Christians, but explicitly NOT Muslims because by definition the countries listed are Muslim majority countries.

 

[GaryDog]

Personally, I don't trust anything he says. It's a common problem in DC and our politics with many of our representatives. Unfortunately, the trust along with honesty and integrity with the Trump administration is continuing to spiral downwards with they way they act.

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

LMAO, please. The wall will be reimbursed? Uh-uh. Not what he said in the campaign, and it's not even what's going to be happen Any tarriffs or taxes will be paid by U.S. taxpayers.

It remains to be seen. Hell all he could even mandate that all seized drug $$ found coming or going to Mexico be detailed for the wall.

Considering that's the best you got as a response, and it means that the Wall would have been built, I wouldn't claim it as much of a victory. Hell, the wall's high end cost is 10-20 billion, which is what the Feds spend in TWO DAYS of normal operation.

And all of that drug money would've been seized anyway, and used for something else. The feds spend 10-20 billion in two days of normal operation? So what, we shut down the entire federal government for 2 days to pay for the wall?

All of that STILL translates to "Trump lied about being able to make mexico pay for the wall."

And no, that's not the best I've got. We've still got Trump's childlike claims that he'll stop crime, stop terrorism, bring back manufacturing jobs, etc. etc. etc. The list is really way too long for one off-the-cuff reply to someone who's definitely consumed too much kool aid.

Every new president makes grandiose claims. Remember when Obama said his inauguration would mark the day the seas stopped rising? Trump is just following in the grand tradition of politicians.

There's campaign rhetoric, and there are material promises. That was never interpreted to be the latter. Unless you're just trolling...

 

[martybegan]

Where have I ever called Obama's administration incompetent? I didn't like his political views or goals, or his handling of various issues (actually most issues).

I wasn't talking about you, i was talking about Trump and his surrogates. It was perhaps the biggest talking point during his campaign.

Ok, so they took some framework left by Obama and "improved" on it. Why would that make it such a big deal calling them incompetent?

There is just no point hiding behind Obama, given their insulting attacks and ZERO acknowledgement of smart or effective Foreign policy actions from his administration. It's obvious what they are trying to do, but it's counter productive. It's like saying Betty is the worst cook ever and then cooking a dinner using one of Betty's recipes and trying to gain credibility for its quality by citing that it is a Betty recipe. The IRONY is thick.

They would be better off keeping Obama name out of it and just justifying their decision for the reasons they made it.

When was the last time a current, new party administration has heaped praises on the previous, other party administration?

And in your example, one can say it isn't the Recipes', fault, Betty is just a shitty cook.

I wouldn't bring Betty up in the conversation. Trump isn't praising Obama, he is hiding behind his actions to try and silence his opposers. People are critiquing Trump for not including Saudi Araba and Pakistan in his EO and he is responding that these countries were selected by Obama. I get why he is doing that but it is just laughable giving his past statements about Obamas foreign policy. Do you really not see the irony in this?

Calling out his opponents is not tying to silence them. And don't go with the AG who got canned, she's his employee, and she decided to publicly defy him, Out she goes, don't let the door hit her ass on the way out.

For too many years people on the right have been afraid of responding to attacks like this, that time is over.

And I'll deal with some irony if he gets some results out of it. Again, if there were actual constitutional issues I would be concerned. i was concerned over the Green Card issue, but they fixed that. And what's best the fixed it without giving in on other things, or getting all apologetic. It was "whoops, our bad, fixed now" and that was it.

 

[hadit]

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

LMAO, please. The wall will be reimbursed? Uh-uh. Not what he said in the campaign, and it's not even what's going to be happen Any tarriffs or taxes will be paid by U.S. taxpayers.

It remains to be seen. Hell all he could even mandate that all seized drug $$ found coming or going to Mexico be detailed for the wall.

Considering that's the best you got as a response, and it means that the Wall would have been built, I wouldn't claim it as much of a victory. Hell, the wall's high end cost is 10-20 billion, which is what the Feds spend in TWO DAYS of normal operation.

And all of that drug money would've been seized anyway, and used for something else. The feds spend 10-20 billion in two days of normal operation? So what, we shut down the entire federal government for 2 days to pay for the wall?

All of that STILL translates to "Trump lied about being able to make mexico pay for the wall."

And no, that's not the best I've got. We've still got Trump's childlike claims that he'll stop crime, stop terrorism, bring back manufacturing jobs, etc. etc. etc. The list is really way too long for one off-the-cuff reply to someone who's definitely consumed too much kool aid.

Every new president makes grandiose claims. Remember when Obama said his inauguration would mark the day the seas stopped rising? Trump is just following in the grand tradition of politicians.

There's campaign rhetoric, and there are material promises. That was never interpreted to be the latter. Unless you're just trolling...

And everything Trump said was material promises and not campaign rhetoric?

 

[GaryDog]

fair point. Jan 2016 Trump was talking about a Muslim Ban, which is probably where many of today's attacks are coming from. The current EO isn't a Muslim Ban, it is a travel and refugee Ban in high risk countries. It's understandable how this is all getting conflated

You have to treat his earlier and even later positions, posts, and tweets as the political neophyte he was/is. He is getting better at being "political" but you still get some doozies from time to time.

Personally, I don't trust anything he says. It's a common problem in DC and our politics with many of our representatives. Unfortunately, the trust along with honesty and integrity with the Trump administration is continuing to spiral downwards with they way they act.

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

Agreed. He is following through with the things that he said during his campaign. That doesn't make him honest though, his campaign and now his presidency is littered with lies and manipulation.
To what ends is it justifiable to progress your agenda? It may be easy for you or his supporters to turn a blind eye because it progresses causes you support, but imagine if you didn't support an action, or feel it dangerous to your livelihood, how do you think you'd react to his methodology... Not good.

All current politics is lies, manipulations, exaggerations, character attacks and fainting flowers. At least he is trying to follow through on his promises, and unlike other Republicans, not backing down when challenged.

My issue isn't that people are upset by his actions, I understand that. My issue is they are upset without knowing what is actually happening, or actually being impacted.

The people detained at the airport who had valid green cards have a right to be pissed. Some gender neutral fuckwit in Bushwick? Not so much.

Here's a closer summation of what is actually happening, and why we should be FAR more concerned than we are:

Boston College professor's Facebook post on immigration ban goes viral – Metro

 

[martybegan]

You have to treat his earlier and even later positions, posts, and tweets as the political neophyte he was/is. He is getting better at being "political" but you still get some doozies from time to time.

Personally, I don't trust anything he says. It's a common problem in DC and our politics with many of our representatives. Unfortunately, the trust along with honesty and integrity with the Trump administration is continuing to spiral downwards with they way they act.

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

LMAO, please. The wall will be reimbursed? Uh-uh. Not what he said in the campaign, and it's not even what's going to be happen Any tarriffs or taxes will be paid by U.S. taxpayers.

It remains to be seen. Hell all he could even mandate that all seized drug $$ found coming or going to Mexico be detailed for the wall.

Considering that's the best you got as a response, and it means that the Wall would have been built, I wouldn't claim it as much of a victory. Hell, the wall's high end cost is 10-20 billion, which is what the Feds spend in TWO DAYS of normal operation.

And all of that drug money would've been seized anyway, and used for something else. The feds spend 10-20 billion in two days of normal operation? So what, we shut down the entire federal government for 2 days to pay for the wall?

All of that STILL translates to "Trump lied about being able to make mexico pay for the wall."

And no, that's not the best I've got. We've still got Trump's childlike claims that he'll stop crime, stop terrorism, bring back manufacturing jobs, etc. etc. etc. The list is really way too long for one off-the-cuff reply to someone who's definitely consumed too much kool aid.

Well now they can use it for the wall. and if not "Mexico pays for it", it's "Mexicans paid for it" and that is just as good.

Nah, we just have to shave off a few million every day, and its paid for. Trump has promised a 20% reduction in some federal agencies, we can get the $$ from there.

It's only 2 weeks into his administration or so, give him time.

 

[GaryDog]

LMAO, please. The wall will be reimbursed? Uh-uh. Not what he said in the campaign, and it's not even what's going to be happen Any tarriffs or taxes will be paid by U.S. taxpayers.

It remains to be seen. Hell all he could even mandate that all seized drug $$ found coming or going to Mexico be detailed for the wall.

Considering that's the best you got as a response, and it means that the Wall would have been built, I wouldn't claim it as much of a victory. Hell, the wall's high end cost is 10-20 billion, which is what the Feds spend in TWO DAYS of normal operation.

And all of that drug money would've been seized anyway, and used for something else. The feds spend 10-20 billion in two days of normal operation? So what, we shut down the entire federal government for 2 days to pay for the wall?

All of that STILL translates to "Trump lied about being able to make mexico pay for the wall."

And no, that's not the best I've got. We've still got Trump's childlike claims that he'll stop crime, stop terrorism, bring back manufacturing jobs, etc. etc. etc. The list is really way too long for one off-the-cuff reply to someone who's definitely consumed too much kool aid.

Every new president makes grandiose claims. Remember when Obama said his inauguration would mark the day the seas stopped rising? Trump is just following in the grand tradition of politicians.

There's campaign rhetoric, and there are material promises. That was never interpreted to be the latter. Unless you're just trolling...

And everything Trump said was material promises and not campaign rhetoric?

Uh, "I'll build a wall and Mexico will pay for it", was repeated COUNTLESS times.

Do you dispute that?

 

[GaryDog]

Personally, I don't trust anything he says. It's a common problem in DC and our politics with many of our representatives. Unfortunately, the trust along with honesty and integrity with the Trump administration is continuing to spiral downwards with they way they act.

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

LMAO, please. The wall will be reimbursed? Uh-uh. Not what he said in the campaign, and it's not even what's going to be happen Any tarriffs or taxes will be paid by U.S. taxpayers.

It remains to be seen. Hell all he could even mandate that all seized drug $$ found coming or going to Mexico be detailed for the wall.

Considering that's the best you got as a response, and it means that the Wall would have been built, I wouldn't claim it as much of a victory. Hell, the wall's high end cost is 10-20 billion, which is what the Feds spend in TWO DAYS of normal operation.

And all of that drug money would've been seized anyway, and used for something else. The feds spend 10-20 billion in two days of normal operation? So what, we shut down the entire federal government for 2 days to pay for the wall?

All of that STILL translates to "Trump lied about being able to make mexico pay for the wall."

And no, that's not the best I've got. We've still got Trump's childlike claims that he'll stop crime, stop terrorism, bring back manufacturing jobs, etc. etc. etc. The list is really way too long for one off-the-cuff reply to someone who's definitely consumed too much kool aid.

Well now they can use it for the wall. and if not "Mexico pays for it", it's "Mexicans paid for it" and that is just as good.

Nah, we just have to shave off a few million every day, and its paid for. Trump has promised a 20% reduction in some federal agencies, we can get the $$ from there.

It's only 2 weeks into his administration or so, give him time.

You're not grasping the point. If we cut in other areas, we're paying for it.

Unless we directly rob the Mexican treasury, they're not paying for it. Period.

And this is to say nothing of the blatantly unnecessary, stupid idea of a wall to begin with. And his own lies about the cost, etc.

 

[martybegan]

You have to treat his earlier and even later positions, posts, and tweets as the political neophyte he was/is. He is getting better at being "political" but you still get some doozies from time to time.

Personally, I don't trust anything he says. It's a common problem in DC and our politics with many of our representatives. Unfortunately, the trust along with honesty and integrity with the Trump administration is continuing to spiral downwards with they way they act.

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

Agreed. He is following through with the things that he said during his campaign. That doesn't make him honest though, his campaign and now his presidency is littered with lies and manipulation.
To what ends is it justifiable to progress your agenda? It may be easy for you or his supporters to turn a blind eye because it progresses causes you support, but imagine if you didn't support an action, or feel it dangerous to your livelihood, how do you think you'd react to his methodology... Not good.

All current politics is lies, manipulations, exaggerations, character attacks and fainting flowers. At least he is trying to follow through on his promises, and unlike other Republicans, not backing down when challenged.

My issue isn't that people are upset by his actions, I understand that. My issue is they are upset without knowing what is actually happening, or actually being impacted.

The people detained at the airport who had valid green cards have a right to be pissed. Some gender neutral fuckwit in Bushwick? Not so much.

Here's a closer summation of what is actually happening, and why we should be FAR more concerned than we are:

Boston College professor's Facebook post on immigration ban goes viral – Metro

So? If it is a distraction event to allow him to pass other things more easily, then they are more politically adept than you think.

You can't have it both ways, they are either political foundlings flailing in the weeds, or the most smooth political operators on the planet.

Choose one, don't go pick the one that applies given your current "position"

 

[GaryDog]

Personally, I don't trust anything he says. It's a common problem in DC and our politics with many of our representatives. Unfortunately, the trust along with honesty and integrity with the Trump administration is continuing to spiral downwards with they way they act.

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

Agreed. He is following through with the things that he said during his campaign. That doesn't make him honest though, his campaign and now his presidency is littered with lies and manipulation.
To what ends is it justifiable to progress your agenda? It may be easy for you or his supporters to turn a blind eye because it progresses causes you support, but imagine if you didn't support an action, or feel it dangerous to your livelihood, how do you think you'd react to his methodology... Not good.

All current politics is lies, manipulations, exaggerations, character attacks and fainting flowers. At least he is trying to follow through on his promises, and unlike other Republicans, not backing down when challenged.

My issue isn't that people are upset by his actions, I understand that. My issue is they are upset without knowing what is actually happening, or actually being impacted.

The people detained at the airport who had valid green cards have a right to be pissed. Some gender neutral fuckwit in Bushwick? Not so much.

Here's a closer summation of what is actually happening, and why we should be FAR more concerned than we are:

Boston College professor's Facebook post on immigration ban goes viral – Metro

So? If it is a distraction event to allow him to pass other things more easily, then they are more politically adept than you think.

You can't have it both ways, they are either political foundlings flailing in the weeds, or the most smooth political operators on the planet.

Choose one, don't go pick the one that applies given your current "position"

I think Bannon is a diabolical piece of shit who has stated he wants to "destroy" all of our institutions. He's already claimed to be a Leninist. He's a not-so-subtle political operative, because it's becoming obvious what he's doing, worming his way into the NSC when he has ZERO qualifications for such a post.

Trump is his puppet. The strings go up to Bannon and Putin, clearly.

This doesn't worry you.....WHY?

 

[hadit]

It remains to be seen. Hell all he could even mandate that all seized drug $$ found coming or going to Mexico be detailed for the wall.

Considering that's the best you got as a response, and it means that the Wall would have been built, I wouldn't claim it as much of a victory. Hell, the wall's high end cost is 10-20 billion, which is what the Feds spend in TWO DAYS of normal operation.

And all of that drug money would've been seized anyway, and used for something else. The feds spend 10-20 billion in two days of normal operation? So what, we shut down the entire federal government for 2 days to pay for the wall?

All of that STILL translates to "Trump lied about being able to make mexico pay for the wall."

And no, that's not the best I've got. We've still got Trump's childlike claims that he'll stop crime, stop terrorism, bring back manufacturing jobs, etc. etc. etc. The list is really way too long for one off-the-cuff reply to someone who's definitely consumed too much kool aid.

Every new president makes grandiose claims. Remember when Obama said his inauguration would mark the day the seas stopped rising? Trump is just following in the grand tradition of politicians.

There's campaign rhetoric, and there are material promises. That was never interpreted to be the latter. Unless you're just trolling...

And everything Trump said was material promises and not campaign rhetoric?

Uh, "I'll build a wall and Mexico will pay for it", was repeated COUNTLESS times.

Do you dispute that?

Since when are we holding presidents to campaign rhetoric? Did you miss where he's moved on a whole lot of things he said he was going to? I do believe that when the dust settles, Trump will have a better record of campaign promises kept than most presidents. He's been in office less than month, for Pete's sake.

 

[GaryDog]

And all of that drug money would've been seized anyway, and used for something else. The feds spend 10-20 billion in two days of normal operation? So what, we shut down the entire federal government for 2 days to pay for the wall?

All of that STILL translates to "Trump lied about being able to make mexico pay for the wall."

And no, that's not the best I've got. We've still got Trump's childlike claims that he'll stop crime, stop terrorism, bring back manufacturing jobs, etc. etc. etc. The list is really way too long for one off-the-cuff reply to someone who's definitely consumed too much kool aid.

Every new president makes grandiose claims. Remember when Obama said his inauguration would mark the day the seas stopped rising? Trump is just following in the grand tradition of politicians.

There's campaign rhetoric, and there are material promises. That was never interpreted to be the latter. Unless you're just trolling...

And everything Trump said was material promises and not campaign rhetoric?

Uh, "I'll build a wall and Mexico will pay for it", was repeated COUNTLESS times.

Do you dispute that?

Since when are we holding presidents to campaign rhetoric? Did you miss where he's moved on a whole lot of things he said he was going to? I do believe that when the dust settles, Trump will have a better record of campaign promises kept than most presidents. He's been in office less than month, for Pete's sake.

That wasn't. "campaign rhetoric" that was a material, specific promise. One that he repeated after being president.

 

[hadit]

Every new president makes grandiose claims. Remember when Obama said his inauguration would mark the day the seas stopped rising? Trump is just following in the grand tradition of politicians.

There's campaign rhetoric, and there are material promises. That was never interpreted to be the latter. Unless you're just trolling...

And everything Trump said was material promises and not campaign rhetoric?

Uh, "I'll build a wall and Mexico will pay for it", was repeated COUNTLESS times.

Do you dispute that?

Since when are we holding presidents to campaign rhetoric? Did you miss where he's moved on a whole lot of things he said he was going to? I do believe that when the dust settles, Trump will have a better record of campaign promises kept than most presidents. He's been in office less than month, for Pete's sake.

That wasn't. "campaign rhetoric" that was a material, specific promise. One that he repeated after being president.

Okay, and what part of "he's been in office less than a month" is hard to understand?

Quite frankly, he's moved faster on more items than any president in recent memory. Would it make you feel better if the wall doesn't get built?

 

[martybegan]

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

LMAO, please. The wall will be reimbursed? Uh-uh. Not what he said in the campaign, and it's not even what's going to be happen Any tarriffs or taxes will be paid by U.S. taxpayers.

It remains to be seen. Hell all he could even mandate that all seized drug $$ found coming or going to Mexico be detailed for the wall.

Considering that's the best you got as a response, and it means that the Wall would have been built, I wouldn't claim it as much of a victory. Hell, the wall's high end cost is 10-20 billion, which is what the Feds spend in TWO DAYS of normal operation.

And all of that drug money would've been seized anyway, and used for something else. The feds spend 10-20 billion in two days of normal operation? So what, we shut down the entire federal government for 2 days to pay for the wall?

All of that STILL translates to "Trump lied about being able to make mexico pay for the wall."

And no, that's not the best I've got. We've still got Trump's childlike claims that he'll stop crime, stop terrorism, bring back manufacturing jobs, etc. etc. etc. The list is really way too long for one off-the-cuff reply to someone who's definitely consumed too much kool aid.

Well now they can use it for the wall. and if not "Mexico pays for it", it's "Mexicans paid for it" and that is just as good.

Nah, we just have to shave off a few million every day, and its paid for. Trump has promised a 20% reduction in some federal agencies, we can get the $$ from there.

It's only 2 weeks into his administration or so, give him time.

You're not grasping the point. If we cut in other areas, we're paying for it.

Unless we directly rob the Mexican treasury, they're not paying for it. Period.

And this is to say nothing of the blatantly unnecessary, stupid idea of a wall to begin with. And his own lies about the cost, etc.

If they used siezed drug money they are paying for it. Hell, if they reduce any aid we send to mexico by the wall cost they end up "paying for it"

Yes, you think the wall is a terrible no good very bad awful never work idea. So why should I care about any of your other statements on it?

 

[martybegan]

So far he as at least attempted to follow through on almost everything he talked about during his campaign. Even politifact has to give hime "promise kept" or "in the works" on a ton of his campaign promises.

Regardless of your views on his position, or on his tendency to exaggerate just about everything, he follows through with what he promises, and he doesn't back down when challenged.

Agreed. He is following through with the things that he said during his campaign. That doesn't make him honest though, his campaign and now his presidency is littered with lies and manipulation.
To what ends is it justifiable to progress your agenda? It may be easy for you or his supporters to turn a blind eye because it progresses causes you support, but imagine if you didn't support an action, or feel it dangerous to your livelihood, how do you think you'd react to his methodology... Not good.

All current politics is lies, manipulations, exaggerations, character attacks and fainting flowers. At least he is trying to follow through on his promises, and unlike other Republicans, not backing down when challenged.

My issue isn't that people are upset by his actions, I understand that. My issue is they are upset without knowing what is actually happening, or actually being impacted.

The people detained at the airport who had valid green cards have a right to be pissed. Some gender neutral fuckwit in Bushwick? Not so much.

Here's a closer summation of what is actually happening, and why we should be FAR more concerned than we are:

Boston College professor's Facebook post on immigration ban goes viral – Metro

So? If it is a distraction event to allow him to pass other things more easily, then they are more politically adept than you think.

You can't have it both ways, they are either political foundlings flailing in the weeds, or the most smooth political operators on the planet.

Choose one, don't go pick the one that applies given your current "position"

I think Bannon is a diabolical piece of shit who has stated he wants to "destroy" all of our institutions. He's already claimed to be a Leninist. He's a not-so-subtle political operative, because it's becoming obvious what he's doing, worming his way into the NSC when he has ZERO qualifications for such a post.

Trump is his puppet. The strings go up to Bannon and Putin, clearly.

This doesn't worry you.....WHY?

because it is ridiculous and you are a drool dripping moron for believing any of it.

It's just as stupid as the Obama/Kenya crap.