7 Million dollars tax break to Carrier for 800 jobs

[Spare_change]

As for the "onerous regulation", each one taken alone may have some modicum of sanity, but when taken in the collective, they become oppressive and costly. But, then, you knew that, didn't you? You just wanted to lay a trap for me, didn't you?

You are in my trap. Can't name one onerous regulation that affected Carrier's betrayal of America labor.

Behind most alcoholics there is an enabler.

Lying for Carrier is enabling Carrier.

... and you have shown your ignorance. It is not a single regulation that becomes onerous, it is the accumulation of regulations. Grow up.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Spare_change, post: 16016336.

... and you have shown your ignorance. It is not a single regulation that becomes onerous, it is the accumulation of regulations. Grow up.

You'd have to prove that other Made in America HVAC Firms are not oppressed by the same mass of onerous regulations that Carrier supposedly per you is suffering under.


You cannot explain this Daikin Industries Ltd

NotfooledbyW, post: 16013299.

All 4000 jobs are saved here. HVAC company building $410 million factory in Texas on Obama's watch. So WTF is carrier's excuse again. Trump rewards shitty company.

Trane and American Standard still mostly American made. How about we buy things that are made by companies committed to keeping jobs here for products that are sold and consumed here.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj....factory-near-houston-1420581605?client=safari

A Japanese maker of air conditioners said it would build a $410 million factory near Houston, in a bet that energy-efficient Japanese-style units can take share from American designs.

Daikin Industries Ltd. said the factory, set to start operating in early 2016, would expand the capacity of its U.S. subsidiary, Goodman Global, and serve as a hub for Osaka-based Daikin to try to spread the technology it sells at home.

As it opens the new site, in Hockley, Texas, Goodman plans to close other sites in Texas and Tennessee. While Daikin plans no layoffs, about 3,000 employees in Texas and 1,000 in Tennessee will be asked to relocate, and there will be no net addition of jobs, the company said.

“The current Goodman facilities don’t have capacity to assemble all the value-added models that Daikin is selling elsewhere,” Takeshi Ebisu, chief executive of Goodman, said in an interview.

Mr. Ebisu said the new 90-acre Texas factory will reduce manufacturing costs and allow faster customization for U.S. consumers.

 

[Spare_change]

Spare_change, post: 16016336.

... and you have shown your ignorance. It is not a single regulation that becomes onerous, it is the accumulation of regulations. Grow up.

You'd have to prove that other Made in America HVAC Firms are not oppressed by the same mass of onerous regulations that Carrier supposedly per you is suffering under.


You cannot explain this Daikin Industries Ltd

NotfooledbyW, post: 16013299.

All 4000 jobs are saved here. HVAC company building $410 million factory in Texas on Obama's watch. So WTF is carrier's excuse again. Trump rewards shitty company.

Trane and American Standard still mostly American made. How about we buy things that are made by companies committed to keeping jobs here for products that are sold and consumed here.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj....factory-near-houston-1420581605?client=safari

A Japanese maker of air conditioners said it would build a $410 million factory near Houston, in a bet that energy-efficient Japanese-style units can take share from American designs.

Daikin Industries Ltd. said the factory, set to start operating in early 2016, would expand the capacity of its U.S. subsidiary, Goodman Global, and serve as a hub for Osaka-based Daikin to try to spread the technology it sells at home.

As it opens the new site, in Hockley, Texas, Goodman plans to close other sites in Texas and Tennessee. While Daikin plans no layoffs, about 3,000 employees in Texas and 1,000 in Tennessee will be asked to relocate, and there will be no net addition of jobs, the company said.

“The current Goodman facilities don’t have capacity to assemble all the value-added models that Daikin is selling elsewhere,” Takeshi Ebisu, chief executive of Goodman, said in an interview.

Mr. Ebisu said the new 90-acre Texas factory will reduce manufacturing costs and allow faster customization for U.S. consumers.

See? That's where you are wrong - I have to prove nothing. All I have to do is go to the United Technologies stockholders' meeting, and complain about the low return on my investment. THEY get to decide whether it's cheaper to avoid the EPA and workplace control regulations of the US. or to operate in Mexico.

As for Daikin Industries, why did they move their manufacturing from Tennessee to Texas? I'm guessing it wasn't because of the weather. You think, maybe, the regulatory environment and the tax environment are more conducive in Texas? Maybe, huh?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

"Spare_change, post: 16017783

See? That's where you are wrong - I have to prove nothing.

Of course you believe you have to prove nothing you live in the Trump fake news world. If you went to a board meeting making claims about regulations in the real world you'd have to prove what you were claiming was true.

On the other hand I could present to the same board that our competitors had no problem with the regulations. So why move. Let's be loyal to our workers and stay. You would be the asshole and I would be the hero.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Spare_change, post: 16017783 16017783

As for Daikin Industries, why did they move their manufacturing from Tennessee to Texas?

Last I checked Texas was still in the United States.

Federal EPA and EEO and health and safety regs apply to all states. That includes Texas.

Trump has made no pledge to stop companies from moving state to state.

Can't you read? Daikin Industries Invested $400 million to modernize and consolidate its workforce in Texas to better serve and compete and stay Made in America.

I've had to move many times to keep working for the same company or move to a new company.

If it's a choice of no job or move to a new job it's move. But I would not wish to move to Mexico for godawful low wages.

Daikin Industries Is to be praised for keeping 4,000 jobs in America. Yet all you can do is bitch about it because they are succeeding while complying with US regulations and taxes.

They make a liar out of you must be why.

 

[Spare_change]

"Spare_change, post: 16017783

See? That's where you are wrong - I have to prove nothing.

Of course you believe you have to prove nothing you live in the Trump fake news world. If you went to a board meeting making claims about regulations in the real world you'd have to prove what you were claiming was true.

On the other hand I could present to the same board that our competitors had no problem with the regulations. So why move. Let's be loyal to our workers and stay. You would be the asshole and I would be the hero.

LOL ----

The next time you see an ad on tv for medicine, pay attention to the "possible side effects" portion of the ad. Notice, first, that the volume is increased during this part. Notice also the requirement that ALL potential side effects are listed. Notice the amount of time it takes to relay this information to the consumer. Notice how much this costs.

Now ... you can't buy this medicine without a prescription, right? You pay your doctor to be knowledgeable about the impact of those medicines, right? So, explain to me why I should pay the cost of that advertising time when you can't make the decision by yourself? What purpose have it served, other than to increase the cost of those drugs?

Why aren't car companies required to list the potential "side effects" of driving a car?

Now - let's talk about employment regulation. Perhaps, you're aware that each company is required to submit quarterly accident reports to the federal government (even if they have had NO workplace accidents). Maybe you're aware that every company nationwide is required to inform OSHA that they have conducted safety training (in specific instances pertinent to the job). Now, what's the value of that? I send them a list with your name on it - because you got the training. The other guy I hired didn't get the training - he didn't get on the list. BUT - OSHA doesn't get a list of my employees to compare training vs. employment. There is no way they can identify that I have an untrained worker on the job. It's simply a form that goes nowhere (other than to employ some government worker somewhere).

The list just goes on and on and on .....

Now, let's talk about your mythical company. Better yet, let's talk about the company that was forced to move out of country (it wasn't my company - I was brought in to provide management guidance). They manufactured a product using extruded steel. When they started the company, they used steel made in the US. In about 2009, the cost of steel went out of sight (if you ask the steel companies, they will tell you that the cost increase was due to the increased cost of coke - made out of - you guessed it - West Virginia coal. It seems the government started putting all kinds of restrictions - via the EPA - on the production of coke, driving its price thru the roof).

Because of the increased cost of steel, we looked for alternative sources. Japanese steel was significantly cheaper - even with the increased shipping costs. So, we changed our steel source to a company in Japan. Problem solved, right? Well, not quite ---
The steel companies complained to Obama that they were being undercut by Japanese steel (which, in truth, they were). Rather than look at why US steel was so expensive, the Obama administration put a 22% tariff on imported steel.

Unfortunately, that component increase made our product non-competitive internationally (about 45% of our business model). US wages plus US steel (or Japanese steel whose cost was arbitrarily increased by US tariffs) meant we couldn't do business. Our only alternative was to move our manufacturing facility off shore - driving down our labor costs, our compliance costs, our tax costs and the cost of our primary component.

Now, about that cost of labor ---- obviously, the baseline hourly wage is lower in Brazil. In addition, our labor overhead (the cost of having an employee --- insurance, taxes, management, support personnel to manage the employment paperwork, vacations, sick leaves, etc., etc., etc) in the US was 53%. In Brazil, that "wrap rate" is 39%. In other words, in the US, $10 of labor cost us $15.30. In Brazil, it cost us $13.90 (A good portion of that O/H rate is generated by regulatory compliance - obviously easier in Brazil than in the US)

We were able to keep our management structure in the US (about 165 positions) but 1400 middle class, blue collar, well-paying manufacturing jobs were forced to move to Brazil.

BTW - when we made the presentation at the annual stockholder's meeting, we weren't the assholes -- we were the heroes. We saved their company.

 

[Spare_change]

Spare_change, post: 16017783 16017783

As for Daikin Industries, why did they move their manufacturing from Tennessee to Texas?

Last I checked Texas was still in the United States.

Federal EPA and EEO and health and safety regs apply to all states. That includes Texas.

Trump has made no pledge to stop companies from moving state to state.

Can't you read? Daikin Industries Invested $400 million to modernize and consolidate its workforce in Texas to better serve and compete and stay Made in America.

I've had to move many times to keep working for the same company or move to a new company.

If it's a choice of no job or move to a new job it's move. But I would not wish to move to Mexico for godawful low wages.

Daikin Industries Is to be praised for keeping 4,000 jobs in America. Yet all you can do is bitch about it because they are succeeding while complying with US regulations and taxes.

They make a liar out of you must be why.

"... better serve and compete ..." Just what the hell do you think that means? It means they could produce their product more efficiently - AND CHEAPER - in Texas than in Tennessee.

 

[Spare_change]

Report: Cost of Federal Regulation Reached $1.88 Trillion in 2014

The cost of federal regulation neared $2 trillion in 2014, according to a new report by the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI).

Ten Thousand Commandments: An Annual Snapshot of the Federal Regulatory State, a report by Clyde Wayne Crews, CEI’s vice president for policy, also reveals that the U.S. debt now exceeds the size of China’s economy.

“Federal regulation and intervention cost American consumers and businesses an estimated $1.88 trillion in 2014 in lost economic productivity and higher prices,” amounting to roughly $15,000 per household, the report said.

The report found that the federal bureaucracy—made up of 60 agencies, departments, and commissions—has 3,415 regulations in the process of being finalized, meaning that the number of regulations far surpasses the number of laws passed by Congress.

“In 2014, agencies issued 16 new regulations for every law—that’s 3,554 new regulations compared to 224 new laws,” the report said.

 

[Spare_change]

I will post this as a separate thread, but I wanted to give you an excellent example of regulatory overreach.

SEABROOK, N.H. – David Goethel built his life off the profits of cod, trolling the waters of New England for 30 years netting the region's once-abundant signature fish.

"My slice of the American Dream was paid for from fishing," Goethel said from behind the wheel of his 44-foot fishing trawler on a windy Friday afternoon in December. "Cape Cod house, two cars, four college educations – it all came out of the fish hole in this boat."

But a controversial federal mandate is threatening to put him out of business, he claims.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, NOAA, requires groundfishermen -- those who catch cod, haddock and other common bottom-dwelling species -- to carry on board "at-sea monitors." The observers, hired by three for-profit companies, are third-party workers whose task it is to observe fishermen's compliance with federal regulations and ensure annual quotas are not exceeded.

The dispute lies in the cost of the monitors and who should pay for them: Fishermen are billed on average $700 a day when a regulator is present.

 

[KissMy]

Mythical Republican Deregulation Job Creation!

Democrats Clinton & Obama Created More Private Sector Jobs than Republicans Eisenhower + Nixon + Ford + Reagan + Bush1+ Bush2 + Trump Combined!!!

 

[Spare_change]

Mythical Republican Deregulation Job Creation!

Democrats Clinton & Obama Created More Private Sector Jobs than Republicans Eisenhower + Nixon + Ford + Reagan + Bush1+ Bush2 + Trump Combined!!!

Funny shit rite thar!

 

[KissMy]

Mythical Republican Deregulation Job Creation!

Democrats Clinton & Obama Created More Private Sector Jobs than Republicans Eisenhower + Nixon + Ford + Reagan + Bush1+ Bush2 + Trump Combined!!!

Funny shit rite thar!

Yes it is. It's funny as hell watching Repubtards Heads Explode when they are confronted with FACTS!!!

 

[Spare_change]

Mythical Republican Deregulation Job Creation!

Democrats Clinton & Obama Created More Private Sector Jobs than Republicans Eisenhower + Nixon + Ford + Reagan + Bush1+ Bush2 + Trump Combined!!!

Funny shit rite thar!

Yes it is. It's funny as hell watching Repubtards Heads Explode when they are confronted with FACTS!!!

Oh great! Just what we need around here ...

Another name calling leftist asshole who can't put a coherent thought together.

 

[KissMy]

Every Republican President in history caused massive Job Killing Recessions equal to number of 4 year terms they serve. In the last century Only 1 in 5 Democrat President 4 year terms had recession & they created jobs for over 19 out of every 20 years.

 

[Spare_change]

Every Republican President in history caused massive Job Killing Recessions equal to number of 4 year terms they serve. Only 1 in 3 Democrats Presidents had recession & they created jobs for over 19 out of every 20 years.

EVERY one, huh?

Got to love your generalizations --- especially when they're false and unprovable.

 

[KissMy]

Every Republican President in history caused massive Job Killing Recessions equal to number of 4 year terms they serve. Only 1 in 3 Democrats Presidents had recession & they created jobs for over 19 out of every 20 years.

EVERY one, huh?

Got to love your generalizations --- especially when they're false and unprovable.

It's a proven fact!

There was one who was shot & died soon after taking office before the Job Killing Recession He & His VP Caused. But like I said 4 year term & you have to be a total repubtard to hold that up as a success!

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Spare_change, post: 16018752,

"... better serve and compete ..." Just what the hell do you think that means? It means they could produce their product more efficiently - AND CHEAPER - in Texas than in Tennessee.

Are you an idiot? Texas is in the USA.

Carrier is moving 1300 jobs from Indiana to Mexico. Trump is praising them.

If they moved the jobs to Texas. Then Trump should praise Carrier as well.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Spare_change, post: 16018836

The dispute lies in the cost of the monitors and who should pay for them: Fishermen are billed on average $700 a day when a regulator is present.

Nice diversion. But is Carrier bring forced to pay for monitors when they build a furnace in the US.

Come on stick with the topic. There are no regulations that are driving Carrier to Mexico are there?

Stick with the HVAC industry.

Wild caught Fish are not an infinite resource by the way.

And you need get your brain out of fake news Trump world. Coal regulations did not cause the decline of jobs in the steel industry.

Read an expert's words not the tweets of a billionaire silver spoon in the mouth charlatan and admitted sexual assaulter.

Steel's decline was about technology, not trade
By Sabri Ben-Achour

Steel's decline was about technology, not trade


August 09, 2016 | 4:50 PM

.
American steel! We'll send new skyscrapers soaring all over our country. We will put new American metal into the spine of this nation.”

Trump said he would “put our coal miners and our steel workers back to work!”

The candidate suggested that trade deals and regulation had cost the United States hundreds of thousands of jobs in manufacturing industries like auto, steel and coal. And he suggested that doing away with both would bring those jobs back.

But a look at recent research on the U.S. steel industry shows that when it comes to the decline of American steel industry jobs, globalization and regulation had very little to do with it.

In the four decades beginning in the early 1960s, the steel sector lost 400,000 jobs — a five-fold drop, according to Allan Collard-Wexler, assistant professor at Duke, who examined the history of the industry using detailed census data.

Initially, “we thought this was going to be all about trade,” he said. He was in for a surprise.

Even though jobs disappeared, actual steel output declined by a small amount, roughly 20 percent — nowhere near accounting for the loss in jobs. Steel production wasn’t leaving the United States as much as it was just requiring fewer workers.

“It was increases in the productivity of the steel industry that are generating this huge drop in employment,” said Collard-Wexler.

Specifically, something came along called the minimill – essentially a process for recycling scrap steel and turning it into higher quality steel.

It was more efficient and cheaper. “Recycling steel is a less-intensive process than smelting it from scratch,” he said.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mark...as-about-technology-not-trade-0?client=safari

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The cost of federal regulation neared $2 trillion in 2014, according to a new report by the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI).

The CEI in the fake news Washington Free Beacon is nothing - the research is too vague to be meaningful since they do not attempt to take into account the benefits of regulations.

There is no distinction between necessary and unnecessary regulation. It is not a true study when it ignores the benefits savings of regulation.

You want killed or injured workers in the workplace. You want fishing areas overfished or polluted.

You want premature death and health problems caused by air pollution.

You want predatory banks ripping off consumers use of credit cards.

 

[Spare_change]

Spare_change, post: 16018836

The dispute lies in the cost of the monitors and who should pay for them: Fishermen are billed on average $700 a day when a regulator is present.

Nice diversion. But is Carrier bring forced to pay for monitors when they build a furnace in the US.

Come on stick with the topic. There are no regulations that are driving Carrier to Mexico are there?

Stick with the HVAC industry.

Wild caught Fish are not an infinite resource by the way.

And you need get your brain out of fake news Trump world. Coal regulations did not cause the decline of jobs in the steel industry.

Read an expert's words not the tweets of a billionaire silver spoon in the mouth charlatan and admitted sexual assaulter.

Steel's decline was about technology, not trade
By Sabri Ben-Achour

Steel's decline was about technology, not trade


August 09, 2016 | 4:50 PM

.
American steel! We'll send new skyscrapers soaring all over our country. We will put new American metal into the spine of this nation.”

Trump said he would “put our coal miners and our steel workers back to work!”

The candidate suggested that trade deals and regulation had cost the United States hundreds of thousands of jobs in manufacturing industries like auto, steel and coal. And he suggested that doing away with both would bring those jobs back.

But a look at recent research on the U.S. steel industry shows that when it comes to the decline of American steel industry jobs, globalization and regulation had very little to do with it.

In the four decades beginning in the early 1960s, the steel sector lost 400,000 jobs — a five-fold drop, according to Allan Collard-Wexler, assistant professor at Duke, who examined the history of the industry using detailed census data.

Initially, “we thought this was going to be all about trade,” he said. He was in for a surprise.

Even though jobs disappeared, actual steel output declined by a small amount, roughly 20 percent — nowhere near accounting for the loss in jobs. Steel production wasn’t leaving the United States as much as it was just requiring fewer workers.

“It was increases in the productivity of the steel industry that are generating this huge drop in employment,” said Collard-Wexler.

Specifically, something came along called the minimill – essentially a process for recycling scrap steel and turning it into higher quality steel.

It was more efficient and cheaper. “Recycling steel is a less-intensive process than smelting it from scratch,” he said.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mark...as-about-technology-not-trade-0?client=safari

Hey! You asked for an example of onerous regulation. I gave you one --- and now you want to disregard it? Give me a break.

You didn't get it, at all, did you?

My discussion wasn't about the steel industry. My point was the ridiculous EPA regulations on coke production, which in turn drove the cost of steel up, which resulted in us cancelling about $165 million/year contract for US steel, and then continued government interference that forced us to move 1400 jobs off shore.

Nothing more - nothing less.

BTW - your google skills really suck.