60 years ago, Edward Murrow took down Joe Mccarthy

[bripat9643]

It appears all the forum fellow travelers have run away from this discussion.

I win.

 

[natstew]

It appears all the forum fellow travelers have run away from this discussion.

I win.

Not so fast, I'm still here. I have a life away from my PC so I'm absent here a lot, but I haven't quit.

BTW, I think we're on the same side, so maybe it should be, WE WIN!!

 

[bripat9643]

It appears all the forum fellow travelers have run away from this discussion.

I win.

Not so fast, I'm still here. I have a life away from my PC so I'm absent here a lot, but I haven't quit.

BTW, I think we're on the same side, so maybe it should be, WE WIN!!

It's too bad because I was having fun serving them a big can of whoop-ass.

One thing you have to note about the McCarthy haters is that their standard of "innocent" is "not convicted of espionage." If that was the standard for kicking someone out of a sensitive government position, we would have lost the cold war a long time ago. These numskulls actually believe a member of the Communist party should have access to secret information.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hey remember when McCarthys House Unamerican Activities Committee blacklisted Zero Mostel

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

 

[bripat9643]

Hey remember when McCarthys House Unamerican Activities Committee blacklisted Zero Mostel

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

No, I don't remember that, but I'll bet Camp and other fellow travelers do.

 

[Camp]

It appears all the forum fellow travelers have run away from this discussion.

I win.

You are boring because you don't have the slightest grasp or concept of what the debate is about. You simply don't know what Macarthyism is about. You don't recognize what the issue's are and thus, you maintian the discussion on a juvenile level. It seems to be beyond your intellectual ability to recognize the issue's that are the basis of the historical impact and lessons of the McCarthy era. Your debate points, questions and ideas were used and addressed over fifty years ago. Those issue's have been addressed in this thread repeatedly, but you either don't see them, refuse to aknowdledge them or just enjoy playing stupid.
Your posting are actually the best negative critiques of McCarthyism. You adhere to some of his methods. Your use of the method of bearing false witness is one of the basic prinicples of McCarthyism.

 

[Camp]

Hey remember when McCarthys House Unamerican Activities Committee blacklisted Zero Mostel

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

No, I don't remember that, but I'll bet Camp and other fellow travelers do.

See, like this example. You keep calling people fellow travelers. You looked the word up and discovered it meant a communist or communist supporter. So, like McCarthy, you call folks who disagree with you, or have different viewpoints "fellow travelers". The people who challange your views need to be demonized by accusing them of being communist. It's a form of "bearing false witness".

While doing that, you take the anti-American stance that anyone with even the slightest leaning towards the left does not have the right to their opinion. You make your anti-American action of denying free thought and speech indicate that the person enjoying constitutional rights is the anti-American demon. You are attempting to use old tricks that were exsposed as tricks before you were born. McCarthy didn't invent them, but McCarthy exposed those tricks to the mass's of American's. He educated the public about demonization and ethical corruption when the public got fed up with his immoral charactor.

Basicly he took what was created in the House by HUAC and Martin Dies and brought it to the Senate. This is why he gets blamed for lots that he was not actually responsible for. Things like the Hollywood blacklist. His defenders use this confusion to offer excuses for his overall dispicable nature. The greatest generation wasn't big on excuses. McCarthy tried fucking with the greatest generation, includeing some of it's heroes. He got caught and got sent packing. The nation told him to fuck off.

So keep calling folks fellow travelers. Continue to accuse folks of being communist whenever you find yourself lacking in debating skills or knowledge. Bearing false witness is a wonderful method of covert dishonesty. It works great on folks who lack critical thinking skills.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Hey remember when McCarthys House Unamerican Activities Committee blacklisted Zero Mostel

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

No, I don't remember that, but I'll bet Camp and other fellow travelers do.

See, like this example. You keep calling people fellow travelers. You looked the word up and discovered it meant a communist or communist supporter. So, like McCarthy, you call folks who disagree with you, or have different viewpoints "fellow travelers". The people who challange your views need to be demonized by accusing them of being communist. It's a form of "bearing false witness".

While doing that, you take the anti-American stance that anyone with even the slightest leaning towards the left does not have the right to their opinion. You make your anti-American action of denying free thought and speech indicate that the person enjoying constitutional rights is the anti-American demon. You are attempting to use old tricks that were exsposed as tricks before you were born. McCarthy didn't invent them, but McCarthy exposed those tricks to the mass's of American's. He educated the public about demonization and ethical corruption when the public got fed up with his immoral charactor.

Basicly he took what was created in the House by HUAC and Martin Dies and brought it to the Senate. This is why he gets blamed for lots that he was not actually responsible for. Things like the Hollywood blacklist. His defenders use this confusion to offer excuses for his overall dispicable nature. The greatest generation wasn't big on excuses. McCarthy tried fucking with the greatest generation, includeing some of it's heroes. He got caught and got sent packing. The nation told him to fuck off.

So keep calling folks fellow travelers. Continue to accuse folks of being communist whenever you find yourself lacking in debating skills or knowledge. Bearing false witness is a wonderful method of covert dishonesty. It works great on folks who lack critical thinking skills.

McCarthy's Biggest Mistake was woefully underestimating the extent to which the White House, State Dept, American Media and Democrat Party had been taken over by Communists

 

[Camp]

Don't leave out the Republicans Frank. 60 years and 11 days ago Republican Senators and the Republican President turned on McCarthy and called him out on his nonsense and anti-American bullshit. March 9, 1954 is the exact day the Republicans came out publicly attacked and rejected Tail Gunner Joe.

 

[guno]

60 Years Ago, Edward R. Murrow Took Down Joseph McCarthy

Murrow on McCarthy, no fear, 1954 - YouTube

This is no time for men who oppose Senator McCarthy's methods to keep silent, or for those who approve. We can deny our heritage and our history, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result. There is no way for a citizen of a republic to abdicate his responsibilities. As a nation we have come into our full inheritance at a tender age. We proclaim ourselves, as indeed we are, the defenders of freedom, wherever it continues to exist in the world, but we cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.

"He didn't create this situation of fear, he merely exploited it, and rather successfully."

1954 was four years before I was born. Has anybody here studied the McCarthy era?

I remember it and him and watching the The Army–McCarthy hearings on TV at the time , he was a drunk who had serve physiological issues who was finally brought down and faded into history . On December 2, 1954, the Senate voted 67–22 to censure McCarthy, effectively eradicating his influence. He was and is an embarrassment to American history.

 

[Camp]

The nails were put into the McCarthy coffin on December 2, 1954

HEADLINES - NEW YORK TIMES DEC. 2, 1954

"FINAL VOTE CONDEMNS McCARTHY, 67-22 FOR ABUSING SENATE AND COMMITTEE:
ZWICKER COUNT ELIMINATED IN DEBATE"

Half the Senate Republicans, 22 of them voted to condemn McCarthy. 51 votes could not have been achieved without Republican votes.

"Senate votes to condemn Sen. McCarthy for contempt....for abuse of it's members and insults to the Senate...." New York Times Dec. 2, 1954

 

[CrusaderFrank]

McCarthy was a political Galileo. He was years ahead of his time and clearly saw and accurately described how the FDR White House orbited around Josef Stalin

Sent from smartphone using my wits and Taptalk

 

[Mushroom]

McCarthy and HUAC both were detestable, not to mention none of them turned up any commie in important positions anywhere.

I am going to give a more full response later, but I just had to respond to this one.

And you simply have to look at Venona, the Gorsky Memo, statements by Elizabeth Bentley, and the Vassiliev Notes.

Gerald and Stanley Graze, named by both McCarthy and Gorsky.
Franz Neumann, named by McCarthy and Vassiliev.
Robert Miller, named by McCarthy and Bentley.
William Remmington, named by McCarthy and Bentley.
David Zablodgwskeim, named by McCarthy, and admitted to being the courier for Whittaker Chambers.
Mary Keeney, identified by McCarthy and Venona.
John Service, identified by McCarthy and the FBI.
David Karr, identified by McCarthy and Venona.
Lauchlin Currie, identified by McCarthy, Venona, and Bentley.
Harold Glasser, identified by McCarthy, Venona and Bentley.

And this is not even a complete rundown of comparisons. But when this many people are identified by multiple sources (some even caught in the act), it is impossible to take serious a claim none of them turned up anything anywhere.

 

[Vandalshandle]

One of his assistants was quoted some time after McCarthy's fall that when he made his first speech in which he claimed to holding in his hand a list of 205 communists in the State Department, it was actually a laundry list.


http://www.finfacts.com/news/senatorjosephmccarthy.htm


Fortunately for all of us, he drank himself to death.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

One of his assistants was quoted some time after McCarthy's fall that when he made his first speech in which he claimed to holding in his hand a list of 205 communists in the State Department, it was actually a laundry list.


Senator Joseph McCarthy Irish American Demagogue Irish America's Shame; Joe, Fiftieth Anniversary, Welch, Murrow, Kennedy, Communists, Gays, Homosexuals,-Finfacts Ireland


Fortunately for all of us, he drank himself to death.

Thankfully FDR died before he could give away even more of the world to his Communist Puppet Masters

 

[Vandalshandle]

One of his assistants was quoted some time after McCarthy's fall that when he made his first speech in which he claimed to holding in his hand a list of 205 communists in the State Department, it was actually a laundry list.


Senator Joseph McCarthy Irish American Demagogue Irish America's Shame; Joe, Fiftieth Anniversary, Welch, Murrow, Kennedy, Communists, Gays, Homosexuals,-Finfacts Ireland


Fortunately for all of us, he drank himself to death.

Thankfully FDR died before he could give away even more of the world to his Communist Puppet Masters

Ignorance of real history is no excuse for dumb posts.

 

[JakeStarkey]

True Americans have no fear of the far right reactionary wing nuts political and religious or the libertarians or the anarchists.

No fear, you hear

 

[Mushroom]

Fortunately for all of us, he drank himself to death.

Ignorance of real history is no excuse for dumb posts.

Yes, and I fully agree with you there.

Which is why it is important to correct you that Senator McCarthy did not "drink himself to death". He died of hepatitis.

 

[JakeStarkey]

McCarthy and HUAC both were detestable, not to mention none of them turned up any commie in important positions anywhere.

I'm sure most people don't know that those wonderful Brothers Kennedy were 110% behind ole Joe, and just couldn't suck themselves enough Joe Mc ass. The Johnson/Kennedy hate fest was in no small part because of Johnson's loathing of McCarthy.

And, it was the Army lawyer Joseph Welch who humiliated McCarthy on national television, not Murrow, and Lyndon Johnson who was responsible for the Senate's censure of McCarthy following that appearance.

The Humiliation of Joseph McCarthy

The new medium aired his worst traits for all of America to see. He was argumentative, rude, annoying, and usually drunk. The Army’s counsel caught Roy Cohn citing doctored photos as evidence. At one point the senator blurted out that the Army’s chief lawyer, Joseph Welch, had a young colleague with supposed Communist connections.

The dignified, bow-tied Welch coolly replied, “Until this moment, Senator, I think I never really gauged your cruelty, or your recklessness. . . . Little did I dream you could be so reckless and so cruel as to do an injury to that lad. It is, I regret to say, equally true that I fear he shall always bear a scar needlessly inflicted by you. If it were in my power to forgive you for your reckless cruelty, I would do so. I like to think I’m a gentle man, but your forgiveness will have to come from someone other than me.” The standing-room-only crowd erupted in applause.

When McCarthy tried to persist in his assault, Welch said, “You’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?” The effect was devastating.

And so the hearings broke McCarthy’s hold on the Senate. His public image plummeted. Soon only a third of Americans viewed him favorably. Ralph Flanders, a moderate Republican senator from Vermont, introduced the resolution for censure. At first the idea seemed absurd—the Senate had censured only five men in its history—but then Lyndon Johnson, a rising Democratic star, gave the resolution his support.

Don't downplay Murrow, podjo, at all. You will be wrong if you do.

You got it right about Bobby Kennedy, but not John.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Then later, McCarthy was vindicated.

In the minds of ignorant, weak headed folks.

^ Low Information Obama Supporter

^ No info libertarian know nothing