40 Economists Agree: The GOP Is In Fiscal La-La Land

[bripat9643]

Explain how they are different as far as the deficit is concerned or STFU.

Who gives a fuck about "as far as the deficit is concerned?" In one case, you get to spend your money. In the other, politicians spend it. Anyone who thinks that's not a difference or that the deficit is the only thing that matters is a bootlicking moron.

The People elected a Congress to decide how their tax dollars are spent.

Maybe you've not read the Constitution?

How does that alter what I said?

Here's a hint: it doesn't, dipshit.

 

[bripat9643]

So if a state or local government uses the services of a Financial company, the later has committed a crime of the former ever loses any money? If local governments don't want undertake any sort of financial risk, then they have no business investing in the market. No one is guaranteed against loss in the market.

When the bank lies or deliberately misrepresents the risks involved in the product they are selling, it could be criminal, yes.

Who was arrested for lying? . . . . . . Oh yeah, no one.

 

[editec]

from the survey — run by the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business, which is hardly known for a left-wing slant — is an overwhelming agreement that the 2009 Recovery Act (i.e. the stimulus) brought down unemployment. But GOP leaders have spent years roundly denouncing the stimulus as a failure:

FYI

The University of Chicago Booth School of Business is a graduate business school located in Chicago, Illinois, at the University of Chicago. Formerly known as the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business, Chicago Booth is the second oldest business school in the U.S.,[3] the first such school to offer an Executive MBA program,[4] and the first to initiate a Ph.D. program in Business.[3] The school was renamed in 2008 following a $300 million endowment gift to the school by alumnus David G. Booth. The school has the third-largest endowment of any business school.[5]

During the later half of the twentieth century, the business school was instrumental in the development of the Chicago School, an economic philosophy focused on free-market, minimal government involvement, due to faculty and student interaction with members of the university's influential Department of Economics.

The GOP partisans now so blinded by partisianship that they are even out of step with the premiere school of that advocates the AUSTRIAN school of economic policies.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

from the survey — run by the University of Chicago’s Booth School of Business, which is hardly known for a left-wing slant — is an overwhelming agreement that the 2009 Recovery Act (i.e. the stimulus) brought down unemployment. But GOP leaders have spent years roundly denouncing the stimulus as a failure:

FYI

The University of Chicago Booth School of Business is a graduate business school located in Chicago, Illinois, at the University of Chicago. Formerly known as the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business, Chicago Booth is the second oldest business school in the U.S.,[3] the first such school to offer an Executive MBA program,[4] and the first to initiate a Ph.D. program in Business.[3] The school was renamed in 2008 following a $300 million endowment gift to the school by alumnus David G. Booth. The school has the third-largest endowment of any business school.[5]

During the later half of the twentieth century, the business school was instrumental in the development of the Chicago School, an economic philosophy focused on free-market, minimal government involvement, due to faculty and student interaction with members of the university's influential Department of Economics.

The GOP partisans now so blinded by partisianship that they are even out of step with the premiere school of that advocates the AUSTRIAN school of economic policies.

Thanks for pointing that out. Seriously, I can't understand Conservatives, or at least people on this board and elsewhere that label themselves Conservatives. They need to just call themselves contrarians. Whatever the position is that Obama takes, they run the complete opposite direction, even though MANY of his policies echo that of a moderate Republican. Foreign policy especially is one area where Obama is certainly no Lefty. He's just a better diplomat than W. could EVER be, and that pisses off the Right so they call him an apologist and all this other shit.

Honestly now, the Right Wing is so fucking out of touch with reality it's kind of scary. They way they deliberately chop up and chop out parts of Obama's speech to make him say shit he didn't really say...the way they continually pander to the birthers, the way they stubbornly insist on their failed economic policies...For ten years we tried it their way and look where we're at. And then they'll "but but but" their way about Democratic Congress and blah blah blah. But here's the thing: Democrats did NOT do to Bush what Republicans did to Obama. The Bush Tax Cuts were passed twice, and extended a couple times. They compromised.

Lincoln, TR, Reagan even, none of them would recognize or be proud of the Republican party now. It's gross obstructionism and capitalism gone off the rails. And they're so fucking self-righteous about it all too.

It's scary shit out there right now.

 

[g5000]

So if a state or local government uses the services of a Financial company, the later has committed a crime of the former ever loses any money? If local governments don't want undertake any sort of financial risk, then they have no business investing in the market. No one is guaranteed against loss in the market.

When the bank lies or deliberately misrepresents the risks involved in the product they are selling, it could be criminal, yes.

How was arrested for lying? . . . . . . Oh yeah, no one.

Which is exactly the problem. They committed fraud and just paid a fine with no admission of wrongdoing. Congress and the SEC are in their corner, protecting them.

And people like you sail on, oblivious that you are the one whose pockets have been robbed. Your insurance company was robbed, so your premiums go up. Your local colleges and universities were robbed, so your tuition goes up. Your retirement fund was robbed. Your public employee unions were robbed, so your taxes go up. Your city treasurer was robbed so your utility bills and taxes go up.

The money is flying out of your pocket, and you sit there like a total rube defending the criminals.

Need evidence? I have plenty of it.

Daniel Sparks and Tom Montag: Goldman Sachs. Constructed the fraudulent Timberwolf billion dollar toxic mortgage security and sold it to investors (you), then profited by betting against it. Deliberately stuffed the security with mortgages they knew were toxic so they could bet on its failure while also profiting from its sale it to investors.

Goldman Sued Again for


Brian H. Stoker: Citigroup. Constructed the fraudulent Class V Funding III CDO-squared which ripped off investors (you) for over $700 million.

He stole $700 million and paid a fine of $285 million. Is this a disincentive to steal?!?!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/business/citigroup-to-pay-285-million-to-settle-sec-charges.html


Fabrice Tourre: Goldman Sachs. John Paulson: Paulson & Co. Inc . Constructed the fraudulent Abacus 2007-ac1 CDO for which Goldman Sachs was fined but no one went to prison. Tourre allowed hedge fund manager John Paulson to select the toxic mortgages to be placed in the CDO so Goldman Sachs and Paulson could bet against it.

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2010/comp-pr2010-59.pdf


Angelo Mozilo: Countrywide CEO. Committed the exact same kind of crime as the Enron CEO and financial officers did, and yet he walks free. Mozillo kept telling investors that Countrywide was "consistently producing quality mortgages" while his internal memos show that he was well aware his company was creating the most toxic mortgages on the planet. The SEC originally demanded a jury trial for Mozillo, but he ultimately walked away with a fine and no admission of wrongdoing.

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2009/comp21068.pdf


Richard Harriton: Bear Stearns. Along with 13 executives and brokers, defrauded investors of $75 million through stock manipulation.

Bear Stearns paid the SEC a fine of $38.5 million, half of the amount they stole from their investors!

Bear Stearns in $38M settlement - Aug. 5, 1999





Roland Arnall: Ameriquest. Inventor of the “stated asset” (NINJA) loan.

Paid a $325 million settlement with 49 state AGs in early 2006 for misrepresenting and failing to disclose loan terms, charging excessive loan origination fees and inflating appraisals to qualify borrowers for loans.

March 2006, installed as US ambassador to the Netherlands!

How a Gang of Predatory Lenders and Wall Street Bankers Fleeced America -- and Spawned a Global Crisis | John Mauldin | Safehaven.com

Roland Arnall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Check out that last one. Remember Nannygate? Someone hired a nanny ten years previously who was an illegal immigrant and couldn't get their presidential appointment confirmed by Congress.

But this sleazebag from Ameriquest gets nominated and confirmed as a US Ambassador right after being caught as one of the biggest criminals on Wall Street!

If that does not tell you that our federal government is aiding and abetting these fuckers, nothing will.

You can't make this shit up.

This guy had his brokers forge borrowers' signatures on subprime loans.

Don't believe me? Read this: How a Gang of Predatory Lenders and Wall Street Bankers Fleeced America -- and Spawned a Global Crisis | John Mauldin | Safehaven.com

Read every word of that and wake the fuck up. And just so you know, the guy who reposted that story on his blog, John Mauldin, is a well known hedge fund manager and leans heavily libertarian. But even he can see there is some serious unpunished criminal shit going on.


Every one of these bastards is walking free.

If a criminal came into your house and took your stuff, and then he was caught by the police and paid a small fine and got to keep your stuff, would you not be pissed off as hell?

That is what is going on.

So this bullshit of yours that, "If local governments don't want undertake any sort of financial risk, then they have no business investing in the market" is ignorance of the highest order about what is really going on.

 

[amrchaos]

You can't even get them to admit that tax cuts are no different than spending.

In terms of the immediate financial situation for the government, there is no basic difference between tax cuts and spending .

However, there is an implied understanding among Rublicans. That is, Republicans argument that tax cuts generate more revenue is spaced over an implied time frame. The question of how long that time frame is a very touchy issue on the right.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

When the bank lies or deliberately misrepresents the risks involved in the product they are selling, it could be criminal, yes.

How was arrested for lying? . . . . . . Oh yeah, no one.

Which is exactly the problem. They committed fraud and just paid a fine with no admission of wrongdoing. Congress and the SEC are in their corner, protecting them.

And people like you sail on, oblivious that you are the one whose pockets have been robbed. Your insurance company was robbed, so your premiums go up. Your local colleges and universities were robbed, so your tuition goes up. Your retirement fund was robbed. Your public employee unions were robbed, so your taxes go up. Your city treasurer was robbed so your utility bills and taxes go up.

The money is flying out of your pocket, and you sit there like a total rube defending the criminals.

Need evidence? I have plenty of it.

Daniel Sparks and Tom Montag: Goldman Sachs. Constructed the fraudulent Timberwolf billion dollar toxic mortgage security and sold it to investors (you), then profited by betting against it. Deliberately stuffed the security with mortgages they knew were toxic so they could be on its failure while also profiting from its sale it to investors.

Goldman Sued Again for


Brian H. Stoker: Citigroup. Constructed the fraudulent Class V Funding III CDO-squared which ripped off investors (you) for over $700 million.

He stole $700 million and paid a fine of $285 million. Is this a disincentive to steal?!?!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/business/citigroup-to-pay-285-million-to-settle-sec-charges.html


Fabrice Tourre: Goldman Sachs. John Paulson: Paulson & Co. Inc . Constructed the fraudulent Abacus 2007-ac1 CDO for which Goldman Sachs was fined but no one went to prison. Tourre allowed hedge fund manager John Paulson to select the toxic mortgages to be placed in the CDO so Goldman Sachs and Paulson could bet against it.

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2010/comp-pr2010-59.pdf


Angelo Mozilo: Countrywide CEO. Committed the exact same kind of crime as the Enron CEO and financial officers did, and yet he walks free. Mozillo kept telling investors that Countrywide was "consistently producing quality mortgages" while his internal memos show that he was well aware his company was creating the most toxic mortgages on the planet. The SEC originally demanded a jury trial for Mozillo, but he ultimately walked away with a fine and no admission of wrongdoing.

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2009/comp21068.pdf


Richard Harriton: Bear Stearns. Along with 13 executives and brokers, defrauded investors of $75 million through stock manipulation.

Bear Stearns paid the SEC a fine of $38.5 million, half of the amount they stole from their investors!

Bear Stearns in $38M settlement - Aug. 5, 1999





Roland Arnall: Ameriquest. Inventor of the “stated asset” (NINJA) loan.

Paid a $325 million settlement with 49 state AGs in early 2006 for misrepresenting and failing to disclose loan terms, charging excessive loan origination fees and inflating appraisals to qualify borrowers for loans.

March 2006, installed as US ambassador to the Netherlands!

How a Gang of Predatory Lenders and Wall Street Bankers Fleeced America -- and Spawned a Global Crisis | John Mauldin | Safehaven.com

Roland Arnall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Check out that last one. Remember Nannygate? Someone hired a nanny ten years previously who was an illegal immigrant and couldn't get their presidential appointment confirmed by Congress.

But this sleazebag from Ameriquest gets nominated and confirmed as a US Ambassador right after being caught as one of the biggest criminals on Wall Street!

If that does not tell you that our federal government is aiding and abetting these fuckers, nothing will.

You can't make this shit up.

This guy had his brokers forge borrowers' signatures on subprime loans.

Don't believe me? Read this: How a Gang of Predatory Lenders and Wall Street Bankers Fleeced America -- and Spawned a Global Crisis | John Mauldin | Safehaven.com

Read every word of that and wake the fuck up. And just so you know, the guy who reposted that story on his blog, John Mauldin, is a well known hedge fund manager and leans heavily libertarian. But even he can see there is some serious unpunished criminal shit going on.


Every one of these bastards is walking free.

If a criminal came into your house and took your stuff, and then he was caught by the police and paid a small fine and got to keep your stuff, would you not be pissed off as hell?

That is what is going on.

So this bullshit of yours that, "If local governments don't want undertake any sort of financial risk, then they have no business investing in the market" is ignorance of the highest order about what is really going on.

THANK YOU. I just genuinely wish everyone would watch that PBS Frontline. It lays it out very clearly, just as you just did, the level of grossness that they sunk to. They stop short of outright calling them criminals, but I'm in total agreement with you on that. These are crooks of the worst order. And people like BitchfacePatriot and BriPat are complicit because they've been programmed to defend the fuckers.

It gives me actual hope that someone like you can see this. It proves that no matter what your political ideology, if you want to see truth, you can see truth. Thanks for laying this out there AGAIN.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

You mean we really can't pay off debt by cutting taxes?

The real myth is that you can pay off the debt by increasing taxes on a handful of wealthy people.............while increasing the debt by 6 trillion and denying that entitlements are the problem..................

Perhaps if there were only more folks on unemployment and food stamps could we "stimulate" the economy................lol

 

[bripat9643]

You can't even get them to admit that tax cuts are no different than spending.

In terms of the immediate financial situation for the government, there is no basic difference between tax cuts and spending .

Like a typical liberal toady, you only see things from the point the viewpoint of government parasites. From the taxpayer point of view, there's a big difference between tax cuts and government spending. In the former case, taxpayers get to spend their own money. In the later case, politicians spend it for them. Anyone who doesn't think that distinction is important is obviously just a goverment lickspittle.

[However, there is an implied understanding among Rublicans. That is, Republicans argument that tax cuts generate more revenue is spaced over an implied time frame. The question of how long that time frame is a very touchy issue on the right.

There is no such understanding. That's liberal horseshit.

 

[amrchaos]

So you guys are saying that some of the Banks and investment firms are not our friends?

They are some of the greediest crooks on the planet with Government backing?

Then how are we going to change it if they have enough influence in government to keep from being punished?

Hey--I am asking a question here. I am not criticizing at all. Any info on how to stop that crap from occurring?

 

[LogikAndReazon]

THANK YOU. I just genuinely wish everyone would watch that PBS Frontline.


IS THAT TRUE, OR DID YOU HEAR IT ON PBS ????

 

[amrchaos]

You can't even get them to admit that tax cuts are no different than spending.

In terms of the immediate financial situation for the government, there is no basic difference between tax cuts and spending .

Like a typical liberal toady, you only see things from the point the viewpoint of government parasites. From the taxpayer point of view, there's a big difference between tax cuts and government spending. In the former case, taxpayers get to spend their own money. In the later case, politicians spend it for them. Anyone who doesn't think that distinction is important is obviously just a goverment lickspittle.

[However, there is an implied understanding among Rublicans. That is, Republicans argument that tax cuts generate more revenue is spaced over an implied time frame. The question of how long that time frame is a very touchy issue on the right.

There is no such understanding. That's liberal horseshit.

I am sorry--I am talking about the financial situation from the governments point of view. Remember, we are talking about debt and deficits in terms of government finances. How it affects taxpayers was not part of the conversation.

If we talk about it from the tax payers point of view, yes tax cuts work better for most tax payer than spending cuts. But it will still take time for the extra money to be invested and converted over to increase economic activity. It is not an immediate effect, but a time delayed effect.

 

[g5000]

Going back to my analogy about a thief coming into your house and taking your stuff.

Raising the taxes on a guy across town who lives in a bigger house than you is not going to solve that problem.

If the police are protecting the thieves who are transferring your money into their bank accounts, taxing anyone more is not going to stop that redistribution of wealth by theft that is occuring.


But if you want to just talk about taxes, all this crap about who should be taxed more or less is just another deliberate distraction to keep your minds off what really needs to be done.

There are a lot of subsidies and tax breaks and deductions out there which are allowing a lot of very rich people to pay lower rates than you do.

The small business owner, though, is getting hammered by the highest business tax on the planet.


So fuck all this shit about "tax the rich". Fuck all this shit about making the rich pay their "fair share". Most people haven't a clue what "fair" really is any more.

We need REAL tax reform. Eliminate all subsidies and breaks and credits for everyone. Then you can lower the rates for everyone, and everyone in your tax bracket will be writing a check to Uncle Sam for the exact same amount you do.

THAT is fair.

Our politicians are inserting some of the most arcane amendments into federal legislation which is intended to provide a tax break to one of their pals. These amendments are attached to legislation which has nothing to do with the industry which will profit from it. They just tack that shit onto anything which happens to be in the docket at the moment.

And the shit reads something like "change the word 'four' in Section 3(b) of USC 345 to 'five'".

Nobody knows what the fuck that is except the guy who puts that in there and the lobbyist who asked him to do it. And nobody in Congress stops someone from inserting that amendment because they have their own amendments they want to tack on for their own buddies. It's all about trading "gets". And it is fucking bullshit. It needs to be stopped.

These amendments are changing the tax code more than once a day since the last great tax reform in 1986!

Yeah! Think about that.


So the next thing you know, some mining company somewhere is paying 18 million dollars less in taxes, thanks to some amendment on some appropriations bill for school lunches.

And you can go on and on about how great it is the owner "gets to keep his money" and what a bright day for America that is, but deep down in your soul you know that is a violation of fair play.

America is not about letting someone keep their money when someone else doesn't. America is about everyone having the same opportunities on a level playing field.

So let's level the playing field. Forget all this shit about people getting to keep their money, or the rich paying their fair share. You are all being led around by the nose.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

THANK YOU. I just genuinely wish everyone would watch that PBS Frontline.


IS THAT TRUE, OR DID YOU HEAR IT ON PBS ????

Show me one instance of PBS using the Yellow Journalism tactics that Fox has been shown to use TIME AFTER TIME AFTER TIME and we'll talk. Until then, go blow Ronald Reagan's corpse.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Going back to my analogy about a thief coming into your house and taking your stuff.

Raising the taxes on a guy across town who lives in a bigger house than you is not going to solve that problem.

If the police are protecting the thieves who are transferring your money into their bank accounts, taxing anyone more is not going to stop that redistribution of wealth by theft that is occuring.


But if you want to just talk about taxes, all this crap about who should be taxed more or less is just another deliberate distraction to keep your minds off what really needs to be done.

There are a lot of subsidies and tax breaks and deductions out there which are allowing a lot of very rich people to pay lower rates than you do.

The small business owner, though, is getting hammered by the highest business tax on the planet.


So fuck all this shit about "tax the rich". Fuck all this shit about making the rich pay their "fair share". Most people haven't a clue what "fair" really is any more.

We need REAL tax reform. Eliminate all subsidies and breaks and credits for everyone. Then you can lower the rates for everyone, and everyone in your tax bracket will be writing a check to Uncle Sam for the exact same amount you do.

THAT is fair.

Our politicians are inserting some of the most arcane amendments into federal legislation which is intended to provide a tax break to one of their pals. These amendments are attached to legislation which has nothing to do with the industry which will profit from it. They just tack that shit onto anything which happens to be in the docket at the moment.

And the shit reads something like "change the word 'four' in Section 3(b) of USC 345 to 'five'".

Nobody knows what the fuck that is except the guy who puts that in there and the lobbyist who asked him to do it. And nobody in Congress stops someone from inserting that amendment because they have their own amendments they want to tack on for their own buddies. It's all about trading "gets". And it is fucking bullshit. It needs to be stopped.

These amendments are changing the tax code more than once a day since the last great tax reform in 1986!

Yeah! Think about that.


So the next thing you know, some mining company somewhere is paying 18 million dollars less in taxes, thanks to some amendment on some appropriations bill for school lunches.

And you can go on and on about how great it is the owner "gets to keep his money" and what a bright day for America that is, but deep down in your soul you know that is a violation of fair play.

America is not about letting someone keep their money when someone else doesn't. America is about everyone having the same opportunities on a level playing field.

So let's level the playing field. Forget all this shit about people getting to keep their money, or the rich paying their fair share. You are all being led around by the nose.

When you say eliminate all deductions, are you talking about mortgage interest deductions? I won't lie, that's a big reason my wife is able to stay out of the work force. If we lost that, there's no way my two jobs could support us. But other than that, I'm pretty much on board with you.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Whats just f---ing comical is that if their was a completely "fair" tax code , democrats would still be clamoring every year for higher taxes because incompetent, civil servant, mindless bureaucrats will always need to spend more too cover the future unfunded promises they make to re-elect themselves........... HOPE THAT HELPS

A "fair" tax code will solve nothing.....not even satify the mindless envy of occupyers for a day

 

[LogikAndReazon]

PBS, NPR, PMSNBC, ABC,CBS, NEWSWEEK, TIME, CHICAGO TRIB, LA TIMES, BOSTON GLOBE, NY TIMES..............

Perfectly Objective........If only liberals and progressives could be heard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tip for the leftwing , pussified hysterics...........Dont like Fox, change the channel the juvenile meltdowns are embarrassing

 

[amrchaos]

Whats just f---ing comical is that if their was a completely "fair" tax code , democrats would still be clamoring every year for higher taxes because incompetent, civil servant, mindless bureaucrats will always need to spend more too cover the future unfunded promises they make to re-elect themselves........... HOPE THAT HELPS

A "fair" tax code will solve nothing.....not even satify the mindless envy of occupyers for a day

Of course the Dems would.

How else can they "pay"(as if they actually do that) for all those programs they push onto the public?

Now back to the issue of government finances. I actually think it is better to cut spending before considering the tax issue(except in recession/recovery--then cutting taxes is needed to help the economy). Why don't both parties agree on doing this first?

With a run-away financial situation on hand, I find the lack of spending cuts in the government very troubling.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

PBS, NPR, PMSNBC, ABC,CBS, NEWSWEEK, TIME, CHICAGO TRIB, LA TIMES, BOSTON GLOBE, NY TIMES..............

Perfectly Objective........If only liberals and progressives could be heard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tip for the leftwing , pussified hysterics...........Dont like Fox, change the channel the juvenile meltdowns are embarrassing

MSNBC does have a stated slant, I'll give you that. Everything else you just don't like because by and large they do it right. How often are reporters at those other places sighted for lies and distortions. And if you're HONEST with yourself you'll see hardly ever. Yet routinely it has been documented by objective third parties that Fox as a PRACTICE distorts and lies.

You can choose to have your head up Faux's assholes all you want.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

PBS, NPR, PMSNBC, ABC,CBS, NEWSWEEK, TIME, CHICAGO TRIB, LA TIMES, BOSTON GLOBE, NY TIMES..............

Perfectly Objective........If only liberals and progressives could be heard !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tip for the leftwing , pussified hysterics...........Dont like Fox, change the channel the juvenile meltdowns are embarrassing

MSNBC does have a stated slant, I'll give you that. Everything else you just don't like because by and large they do it right. How often are reporters at those other places sighted for lies and distortions. And if you're HONEST with yourself you'll see hardly ever. Yet routinely it has been documented by objective third parties that Fox as a PRACTICE distorts and lies.

You can choose to have your head up Faux's assholes all you want.

Yes, Yes !!! Just ask "Media Matters" LOL