2nd Worst Financial Crisis In History: Who gets credit?

[Procrustes Stretched]

tax cuts will only exacerbate things.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I wonder who will refute this claim:

It is clear that tax cuts for the wealthy, and the wealthy corporations, have not produced an economically healthier society. The proportion of extremely poor has grown as the very wealthy become wealthier. Those of us in the middle hang in there well enough but this is not the kind of society we think of when we think of the promise of America.

The effects of Bush’s tax cuts have widened economic gaps between people and lessened opportunities. We now have 37 million living in poverty. Those in extreme poverty are the fastest growing group in our society. There is no gold at the end of the rainbow for these people. The only gold that trickles down to them is the golden rain from a two-story outhouse.

-link...
A Well Deserved Death for Trickle-Down
Bob Williams
April 18, 2007
Trickle-down economics...

In his March 29 nationally syndicated column, Thomas Sowell claimed that "no one has ever advocated" the "trickle down theory" -- a conservative economic theory that forms the basis of "supply-side" economics, which prescribes investments and tax breaks for businesses in order to stimulate the economy. In fact, former President Ronald Reagan's then-director of the Office of Management and Budget David A. Stockman indicated in a December 1981 interview in Atlantic Monthly that a substantial portion of Reagan's economic policy was based on the "trickle-down theory."

...link...

David A. Stockman, director of the Office of Management and Budget, in his now famous conversations with Washington Post editor William Greider recorded in an article in the Atlantic Monthly, agreed that a key element of Reagan administration economic policy -- reducing the top personal income tax rate from 70 percent to 50 percent -- was "trickle down."

In order to get Congress to go along with cutting the top rates, the same logic that lower rates would provide incentives to taxpayers whatever their income level had to be devised, Stockman indicated. "It's kind of hard to sell 'trickle down,' so the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really 'trickle down.' Supply-side is 'trickle-down' theory," he said.

 

[Againsheila]

I could swear we tried that before.

Yes. I am quite sure. Even under Reagan, Congress kept spending Mo Money.

That really is our problem.

Big Government.

Of course, I harbor no illusion that you will grok this.

Congress spent more money? Did Congress actually put forward a budget that was less than Reagan asked for?

btw, we did well under Clinton, though we're paying for some of it now.

there are no free rides. government is not a private business. deficits are not evil. taxes are not all bad. private enterprise is not concerned with the economy as much as by profit. markets are not self-regulating. there is NO invisible hand.

we will weather this storm as we have weathered others. the sky is NOT falling.

<<<

Some people have bought that lie....some people can think for themselves. Then end is near. A man flew his plane into an IRS building after writing a rather well written suicide note about the change of our government and how we've become a fascist nation. I think most people who say what you did don't really believe it themselves but believe if they can convince enough people, it will stave off the downfall.

 

[boedicca]

Indeed.

You should we believe? Dante or our Own Lying Eyes?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Yes. I am quite sure. Even under Reagan, Congress kept spending Mo Money.

That really is our problem.

Big Government.

Of course, I harbor no illusion that you will grok this.

Congress spent more money? Did Congress actually put forward a budget that was less than Reagan asked for?

btw, we did well under Clinton, though we're paying for some of it now.

there are no free rides. government is not a private business. deficits are not evil. taxes are not all bad. private enterprise is not concerned with the economy as much as by profit. markets are not self-regulating. there is NO invisible hand.

we will weather this storm as we have weathered others. the sky is NOT falling.

<<<

Some people have bought that lie....some people can think for themselves. Then end is near. A man flew his plane into an IRS building after writing a rather well written suicide note about the change of our government and how we've become a fascist nation. I think most people who say what you did don't really believe it themselves but believe if they can convince enough people, it will stave off the downfall.

fuck off.

A apologize for the above 'fuck off'

 

[Againsheila]

tax cuts will only exacerbate things.

Actually, if they put tax cuts on the middle class instead of the wealthy, more money would be spent and our economy would get better. JFK proved that tax breaks on the middle class do help. Unfortunately, the cons have used that example as their excuse for reducing taxes on the wealthy....and we have what we have today. A widening income gap, high unemployment and a lot of homeless people.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

tax cuts will only exacerbate things.

Actually, if they put tax cuts on the middle class instead of the wealthy, more money would be spent and our economy would get better. JFK proved that tax breaks on the middle class do help. Unfortunately, the cons have used that example as their excuse for reducing taxes on the wealthy....and we have what we have today. A widening income gap, high unemployment and a lot of homeless people.

okay, I see where I agree with you. but right now a tax break would pull more state governments into bankrupt status. what to do? better minds than mine will decide, and more often than not those better minds have been wrong.

sigh

 

[Old Rocks]

Funny thread.

First, if, in 2012, the DOW were at 20,000, unemployment were at 2%, and we had a positive balance of trade, the people on this board would still insist that President Obama was a failure.

Second, both parties are in a state of denial about the budget. You cannot cut taxes and increase the government income. You cannot spend and not create a larger deficit.

So, what do we do in the current economic crisis? Spend on things that bring a return. Infrastructure, energy that we create ourselves. Raise the taxes on the wealthy to the point that they see the same percentage taken out of their income as the working man does. And don't give me that shit about them already paying more. See what Warren Buffet has to say on this subject.

Decrease spending on things that no longer matter. Do we really need a military this big if we are not dependent on other peoples petroleum? What about subsidies to energy companies that are already making billions per quarter? Does that make sense?

And how about Health Care? Why are we paying twice as much per capita for a system that does not cover a significant portion of our citizens? And forces hundreds of thousands of American families into barnruptcy every year. Perhaps the whole nation would be better off financially if we adapted a real health care system.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Funny thread.

First, if, in 2012, the DOW were at 20,000, unemployment were at 2%, and we had a positive balance of trade, the people on this board would still insist that President Obama was a failure.

Second, both parties are in a state of denial about the budget. You cannot cut taxes and increase the government income. You cannot spend and not create a larger deficit.

So, what do we do in the current economic crisis? Spend on things that bring a return. Infrastructure, energy that we create ourselves. Raise the taxes on the wealthy to the point that they see the same percentage taken out of their income as the working man does. And don't give me that shit about them already paying more. See what Warren Buffet has to say on this subject.

Decrease spending on things that no longer matter. Do we really need a military this big if we are not dependent on other peoples petroleum? What about subsidies to energy companies that are already making billions per quarter? Does that make sense?

And how about Health Care? Why are we paying twice as much per capita for a system that does not cover a significant portion of our citizens? And forces hundreds of thousands of American families into barnruptcy every year. Perhaps the whole nation would be better off financially if we adapted a real health care system.

sometimes you make so much sense, you scare me.

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

We’ve come through the second-worst financial crisis in the history of the world bruised and shocked, but on the road to recovery. Agree?

Who gets the credit for averting complete disaster, the invisible hand or Obama? If not Obama, who?

Unemployment is high, there is a sense of bewilderment clouding the minds of the public, but all signs say we are out of the wood and on the road to recovery. Are you better off now than where only a year ago, you thought you'd be?

Credit has to go to somebody. Why haven't Obama and the Democrats formulated a message around this?

Who says we're through it?

Stupid people and politicians.

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

Actually, some of us think we will see a double dip recession when the Bush tax cuts expire next year. Anyone who can claw income into this year to avoid the tax hike is doing so (I include myself in this). 2010 tax receipts will be temporarily inflated, but then drop next year.

It's also likely that the Fed will increase interest rates, thus leading to increases in mortgage rates and dampening the anemic real estate and construction markets.

The real answer is to cut taxes and have government get out of the way of the private sector, but that isn't in Obama's DNA.

Some see it as much more than that.

Mises.org

 

[csbarry]

We’ve come through the second-worst financial crisis in the history of the world bruised and shocked, but on the road to recovery. Agree?

Who gets the credit for averting complete disaster, the invisible hand or Obama? If not Obama, who?

Unemployment is high, there is a sense of bewilderment clouding the minds of the public, but all signs say we are out of the wood and on the road to recovery. Are you better off now than where only a year ago, you thought you'd be?

Credit has to go to somebody. Why haven't Obama and the Democrats formulated a message around this?

No.

Nothings been averted; no one gets credit.

Wrong, and we're certainly no better off than we were a year ago.

The only message anyone should be sending out is; get your waders on, the shit's going to get pretty deep!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We’ve come through the second-worst financial crisis in the history of the world bruised and shocked, but on the road to recovery. Agree?

Who gets the credit for averting complete disaster, the invisible hand or Obama? If not Obama, who?

Unemployment is high, there is a sense of bewilderment clouding the minds of the public, but all signs say we are out of the wood and on the road to recovery. Are you better off now than where only a year ago, you thought you'd be?

Credit has to go to somebody. Why haven't Obama and the Democrats formulated a message around this?

Who says we're through it?

Stupid people and politicians.

get off the 'puter and go outside. when you get out there, look up.

you will notice the sky is not really falling.

 

[csbarry]

Funny thread.

First, if, in 2012, the DOW were at 20,000, unemployment were at 2%, and we had a positive balance of trade, the people on this board would still insist that President Obama was a failure.

Second, both parties are in a state of denial about the budget. You cannot cut taxes and increase the government income. You cannot spend and not create a larger deficit.

So, what do we do in the current economic crisis? Spend on things that bring a return. Infrastructure, energy that we create ourselves. Raise the taxes on the wealthy to the point that they see the same percentage taken out of their income as the working man does. And don't give me that shit about them already paying more. See what Warren Buffet has to say on this subject.

Decrease spending on things that no longer matter. Do we really need a military this big if we are not dependent on other peoples petroleum? What about subsidies to energy companies that are already making billions per quarter? Does that make sense?

And how about Health Care? Why are we paying twice as much per capita for a system that does not cover a significant portion of our citizens? And forces hundreds of thousands of American families into barnruptcy every year. Perhaps the whole nation would be better off financially if we adapted a real health care system.

Yeah, I'm with you on this one!

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

Actually, it is falling right now. In big clear drops. Really cold drops. Quite heavily.


I fucking loathe monsoon season

 

[csbarry]

Who says we're through it?

Stupid people and politicians.

get off the 'puter and go outside. when you get out there, look up.

you will notice the sky is not really falling.

Maybe yours isn't, but for many it is, as is the ground beneath their feet.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

We’ve come through the second-worst financial crisis in the history of the world bruised and shocked, but on the road to recovery. Agree?

Who gets the credit for averting complete disaster, the invisible hand or Obama? If not Obama, who?

Unemployment is high, there is a sense of bewilderment clouding the minds of the public, but all signs say we are out of the wood and on the road to recovery. Are you better off now than where only a year ago, you thought you'd be?

Credit has to go to somebody. Why haven't Obama and the Democrats formulated a message around this?

No

Nothings been averted; no one gets credit.

Wrong, and we're certainly no better off than we were a year ago.

The only message anyone should be sending out is; get your waders on, the shit's going to get pretty deep!

.we're not better off than we were a year ago? we were losing jobs at what rate? banks were in danger of dissolving. the financial system faced collapse.

seek help

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Stupid people and politicians.

get off the 'puter and go outside. when you get out there, look up.

you will notice the sky is not really falling.

Maybe yours isn't, but for many it is, as is the ground beneath their feet.

it would've been worse had Obama not acted.

you can argue whether he did enough, but to deny the fact that his actions saved teh system from total collapse is lunacy.

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

We’ve come through the second-worst financial crisis in the history of the world bruised and shocked, but on the road to recovery. Agree?

Who gets the credit for averting complete disaster, the invisible hand or Obama? If not Obama, who?

Unemployment is high, there is a sense of bewilderment clouding the minds of the public, but all signs say we are out of the wood and on the road to recovery. Are you better off now than where only a year ago, you thought you'd be?

Credit has to go to somebody. Why haven't Obama and the Democrats formulated a message around this?

No

Nothings been averted; no one gets credit.

Wrong, and we're certainly no better off than we were a year ago.

The only message anyone should be sending out is; get your waders on, the shit's going to get pretty deep!

.we're not better off than we were a year ago? we were losing jobs at what rate? banks were in danger of dissolving. the financial system faced collapse.

seek help

In the long run, he's just fucking us deeper and harder

 

[&#9773;proletarian&#9773;]

get off the 'puter and go outside. when you get out there, look up.

you will notice the sky is not really falling.

Maybe yours isn't, but for many it is, as is the ground beneath their feet.

it would've been worse had Obama not acted.

you can argue whether he did enough, but to deny the fact that his actions saved teh system from total collapse is lunacy.

That's like saying the JB Weld holding the engine together saved you from engine failure and going on a drive down Route 66.


When your trapped in the desert with no cell phone signal, no vehicle, and no hope, we'll be driving past you- because we took the time to wait and replace the engine.

Again...


Mises.org