2012 Vice Presidential Debate Thread

[Remodeling Maidiac]

How sad is it that bumbling Joe had to rescue O

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, shouting down someone who has the floor at a town hall is criminal disruption, so, yes, it is not the same thing as Biden.

Foxfyre, the independents are the ones who are going to make the difference, and I imagine they are split among themselves on Biden's behavior.

You are right is is about who supports whom, so I gather you forget the support for the TP's histrionics at the Town Hall meetings in 2009.

Well you may be right. Democrats are mostly condoning and applauding the behavior. Republicans not at all. Independents not so much. So what does that mean? Perhaps what each group considers appropriate for their own guys?

However, I can't imagine Republians applauding their own candidate who behaved that way. So. . . . .

Some citizen standing up at a town hall meeting and shouting down a politician is NOT the same as the Vice President of the United States putting on that kind of a "performance" in a debate that we voters are supposed to use to choose who our leaders will be at this critical time in our history. Biden was a buffoon.

 

[EriktheRed]

Once again, sometimes ya just gotta get rude:

3. Biden laughed at Ryan constantly, and it pissed a lot of people off. Fuck them. It was the laugh of an old man who has heard enough bullshit to last ten lifetimes. Biden used to argue with Jesse Helms, one of the most craven, vile bastards to ever set foot in DC. He went toe-to-toe with Bob Dole. He was locked in a death match with Orrin Hatch for years. You think that Ryan was gonna throw anything at him that he hasn't heard before? It was the laugh of someone who sees through the con and wants everyone to know that he gets the joke. Biden laughed because he wanted to degrade the lies and half-answers that Ryan gave, because he wanted to turn Ryan into a laughingstock

Mostly, though, think of the debate this way: In 2008, Joe Biden, who smiled at Sarah Palin the way one does at a particularly precocious toddler, had to hold his fire for fear of seeming sexist or bullying to the then-governor. He got to unload on Ryan. And all those years in the Senate, all those years confronting presidents, all of it came to bear last night as he beat down Ryan viciously and mercilessly. Ryan is the perfect product of Republican America, someone who grew up in the Reagan era in a protected bubble, who learned at the knee of conservatives and worked for people like Sam Brownback, a man whose philosophy is a synthesis of cruel social conservatism and bastardized Ayn Rand. In other words, he is everything Joe Biden has fought against. Of course Biden was gonna cut off this puffed up punk at the knees. That Ryan asshole brought up a fatal car crash in front of the guy who lost his wife and daughter in one. Shit, when it was done, you half-expected the Vice President to brush his shoulder.

The Rude Pundit

 

[jamesparkerdoor]

Anyone watching other coverage?

Turner stations carry the Yankees.

I heard there is a football AND a baseball game tonight.lol I personally am going to watch something I am very excited about and that is Ryan and Biden, playing Kick Ball.

aThe way I understand it Romney bought companies, fied the employees and sold off the assets giving him a 50% return on his short investment

 

[Foxfyre]

Turner stations carry the Yankees.

I heard there is a football AND a baseball game tonight.lol I personally am going to watch something I am very excited about and that is Ryan and Biden, playing Kick Ball.

aThe way I understand it Romney bought companies, fied the employees and sold off the assets giving him a 50% return on his short investment

And you understand it wrong. That has long ago been thoroughly debunked. Romney through Bain Capital did downsize and closed some businesses that were beyond salvation. But he profited only from his own salary/commissions. Had he done what you suggest he would be serving 2 to 20 for insider trading.

He did however help save a number of companies that were failing, and that would include Bain Capital, and helped others expand into mini empires that resulted in a lot of good new jobs for a lot of people.

It is that kind of experience and track record that has convinced me he is the best choice among all who are running. He knows what businesses look for before they will take the risk to invest and expand and therefore start hiring people again; he knows how the economy works and what does and does not encourage it to prosper; and I trust him to love his country enough to do nothing out of political or personal interests to harm it.

There is nobody, and I do mean nobody else running that I trust that way.

 

[freedombecki]

I heard there is a football AND a baseball game tonight.lol I personally am going to watch something I am very excited about and that is Ryan and Biden, playing Kick Ball.

aThe way I understand it Romney bought companies, fied the employees and sold off the assets giving him a 50% return on his short investment

And you understand it wrong. That has long ago been thoroughly debunked. Romney through Bain Capital did downsize and closed some businesses that were beyond salvation. But he profited only from his own salary/commissions. Had he done what you suggest he would be serving 2 to 20 for insider trading.

He did however help save a number of companies that were failing, and that would include Bain Capital, and helped others expand into mini empires that resulted in a lot of good new jobs for a lot of people.

It is that kind of experience and track record that has convinced me he is the best choice among all who are running. He knows what businesses look for before they will take the risk to invest and expand and therefore start hiring people again; he knows how the economy works and what does and does not encourage it to prosper; and I trust him to love his country enough to do nothing out of political or personal interests to harm it.

There is nobody, and I do mean nobody else running that I trust that way.

<You must spread some reputation around before giving some to Foxfyre again.>

Thank you for shedding some light on this one Foxfyre. It was a familiar DNC talking point for some time now, and I heard it was false and why. You said it best.

 

[freedombecki]

I think Joe shined in the debate. He clearly won, which is why Fox News resorted to attacking him on style. He dominated when it came to substance.

Too bad the substance wasn't truth serum.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Not sure...

Dear Congressman Paul Ryan, I recently came across something that might interest you. I know it tickled my fancy.

I think of you more as an average, barely adequate, wingnut Congressman who would sell his soul to the Devil, if indeed the Devil actually existed. Having you as first in line in the case of incapacitation of the President? No thanks.


yours truly
an American Voter

 

[PixieStix]

Biden was showing off his veneers But a Maine Dentist thinks he needs some work

Maine Dentist | Drews Dental Services

 

[mudwhistle]

There are criminal elements on the right and the left.

Get over it, mud.

I'm sure there are.

But you're trying to criminalize free speech.

Why don't you just fuck off shit-for-brains.


I get a little tired of arguing with some dumb-ass that can't tell the difference between a private citizen and a public official.

 

[mudwhistle]

Yes, shouting down someone who has the floor at a town hall is criminal disruption, so, yes, it is not the same thing as Biden.

Foxfyre, the independents are the ones who are going to make the difference, and I imagine they are split among themselves on Biden's behavior.

You are right is is about who supports whom, so I gather you forget the support for the TP's histrionics at the Town Hall meetings in 2009.

Some citizen standing up at a town hall meeting and shouting down a politician is NOT the same as the Vice President of the United States putting on that kind of a "performance" in a debate that we voters are supposed to use to choose who our leaders will be at this critical time in our history. Biden was a buffoon.

Why don't you sight the law that was being broken.

 

[Oldstyle]

The Vice Presidential Debate: Joe Biden Was Right to Laugh | Matt Taibbi | Rolling Stone

First, let's get the excuses out of the way:

Duly noted is the standard rw excuse of the source. Yes, its true that Rolling Stone is over your heads. That's not the fault of Rolling Stone or of the author. Like Santorum said, you'll never get the smart ones.

Could we now just skip the rw whining and actually discuss the content?

(Yeah, I know... but, its always worth a try, right?)

Discuss the content? You know what's laughable? Matt Taibbi accuses Paul Ryan of lying and says that Joe Biden was right to laugh and mug for the camera and repeatedly interrupt Ryan. What Taibbi totally "whiffed" on is the fact that it was Biden who was telling the lies...not Ryan. Biden is the one who declared that he hadn't voted for either the war in Iraq or the war in Afghanistan when in fact he had voted for BOTH! It was Biden who declared that the entire fiasco in Benghazi was the fault of the nation's intelligence community because neither he nor the President knew anything about additional requests for security from Ambassador Stevens or that the attack wasn't a reaction to the U-Tube video. Joe Biden sat on that stage and lied repeatedly and Martha Raddatz let him get away with it because let's face it folks...Martha Raddatz is a liberal journalist and she was predisposed to let that happen...just as Jim Lehrer is a liberal journalist and Candy Crowley is a liberal journalist. The fact of the matter is that conservatives like Ryan and Romney go into these debates with a handicap because the moderators are not unbiased. What would reaction be from the left if all of the moderators were from Fox News or The National Review? They would go ballistic and rightly so...yet here we are with moderators that all lean to the left and that's OK?

 

[George Costanza]

I wonder what our Republican friends would be saying if the roles had been reversed in the vice presidential debate, and it had been Ryan who was accusing Biden of lying, laughing whenever he felt Biden was lying, interrupting Biden, showing contempt for his viewpoints, etc. I think I know what they would be saying. It would go something like this:

Listen - Ryan won that debate hands down. Biden was a wuss, who couldn't stand up for himself or his own party. What you Dems need to do is stop whining - your man got his ass handed to him.

What are we hearing from our Republican friends in the wake of the vice presidential debate? Faux outrage.

Fucking hypocrites.

wrong, pathetic loser. Had the roles been reversed, I'd be saying 'WTF is Ryan doing? What's with that dumb ass grin?"

You FAIL

Actually, laughing the way Biden did during Ryan's "misstatements" was the POLITE thing to do. Think about it. He probably wanted to turn to Ryan and yell: "That's a God damn LIE, you fucking LIAR!!!!" Now, if he had done that, your criticism of him would be justified. But he didn't. He just laughed to show his disdain for what Ryan was saying.

 

[George Costanza]

Yes, shouting down someone who has the floor at a town hall is criminal disruption, so, yes, it is not the same thing as Biden.

Some citizen standing up at a town hall meeting and shouting down a politician is NOT the same as the Vice President of the United States putting on that kind of a "performance" in a debate that we voters are supposed to use to choose who our leaders will be at this critical time in our history. Biden was a buffoon.

Why don't you sight the law that was being broken.

I'd sight it for you, but it isn't in sight yet. Maybe if we hunt around enough, we might be able to find someone who can cite the law for us, ya think?

And you call someone else "shit-for-brains"?

 

[Liability]

I wonder what our Republican friends would be saying if the roles had been reversed in the vice presidential debate, and it had been Ryan who was accusing Biden of lying, laughing whenever he felt Biden was lying, interrupting Biden, showing contempt for his viewpoints, etc. I think I know what they would be saying. It would go something like this:

Listen - Ryan won that debate hands down. Biden was a wuss, who couldn't stand up for himself or his own party. What you Dems need to do is stop whining - your man got his ass handed to him.

What are we hearing from our Republican friends in the wake of the vice presidential debate? Faux outrage.

Fucking hypocrites.

wrong, pathetic loser. Had the roles been reversed, I'd be saying 'WTF is Ryan doing? What's with that dumb ass grin?"

You FAIL

Actually, laughing the way Biden did during Ryan's "misstatements" was the POLITE thing to do. Think about it. He probably wanted to turn to Ryan and yell: "That's a God damn LIE, you fucking LIAR!!!!" Now, if he had done that, your criticism of him would be justified. But he didn't. He just laughed to show his disdain for what Ryan was saying.

Partisan tripe.

The VP was rude and the constant interruption of Ryan demonstrated that he wanted to shout down the points that were being made. And that's clearly because the dishonest VP had no honest or persuasive rejoinders.

The liberals' "defense" of Biden's behavior is strictly laughable.

And that some Democratics still imagine that VP Biden "won" the debate is pure partisan hackery. The pathetic "defense" of VP Biden's "performance is fFunny, but completely devoid of truth.

 

[Oldstyle]

I wonder what our Republican friends would be saying if the roles had been reversed in the vice presidential debate, and it had been Ryan who was accusing Biden of lying, laughing whenever he felt Biden was lying, interrupting Biden, showing contempt for his viewpoints, etc. I think I know what they would be saying. It would go something like this:

Listen - Ryan won that debate hands down. Biden was a wuss, who couldn't stand up for himself or his own party. What you Dems need to do is stop whining - your man got his ass handed to him.

What are we hearing from our Republican friends in the wake of the vice presidential debate? Faux outrage.

Fucking hypocrites.

wrong, pathetic loser. Had the roles been reversed, I'd be saying 'WTF is Ryan doing? What's with that dumb ass grin?"

You FAIL

Actually, laughing the way Biden did during Ryan's "misstatements" was the POLITE thing to do. Think about it. He probably wanted to turn to Ryan and yell: "That's a God damn LIE, you fucking LIAR!!!!" Now, if he had done that, your criticism of him would be justified. But he didn't. He just laughed to show his disdain for what Ryan was saying.

Laughing during someone else's time during a debate is "POLITE"? Come on...get serious! That's as far from polite as you can get. Polite is waiting your turn and then making a response on YOUR time...it isn't talking over the other person...it isn't laughing or mugging for the camera while the other person is speaking.

Joe Biden laughed while Paul Ryan was speaking because he was trying to intimidate his opponent. You know as well as I do that what we witnessed on that stage was planned. What Joe Biden did was what the Obama Campaign decided was the best way to counter the attacks on their abysmal economic record...namely distract from it. They don't have a credible defense for the state of the economy and Romney/Ryan hammer them with the numbers over and over again so instead of trying to debate the issues they sent Joe Biden out there to disrupt the proceedings with the side show he put on.

The "disdain" that was shown was for the American people. We deserved a debate on the issues by two serious people. Instead what we got was Joe Biden playing the class clown because his side doesn't really want to talk about serious issues because his side has no answers TO those serious issues.

 

[Foxfyre]

wrong, pathetic loser. Had the roles been reversed, I'd be saying 'WTF is Ryan doing? What's with that dumb ass grin?"

You FAIL

Actually, laughing the way Biden did during Ryan's "misstatements" was the POLITE thing to do. Think about it. He probably wanted to turn to Ryan and yell: "That's a God damn LIE, you fucking LIAR!!!!" Now, if he had done that, your criticism of him would be justified. But he didn't. He just laughed to show his disdain for what Ryan was saying.

Laughing during someone else's time during a debate is "POLITE"? Come on...get serious! That's as far from polite as you can get. Polite is waiting your turn and then making a response on YOUR time...it isn't talking over the other person...it isn't laughing or mugging for the camera while the other person is speaking.

Joe Biden laughed while Paul Ryan was speaking because he was trying to intimidate his opponent. You know as well as I do that what we witnessed on that stage was planned. What Joe Biden did was what the Obama Campaign decided was the best way to counter the attacks on their abysmal economic record...namely distract from it. They don't have a credible defense for the state of the economy and Romney/Ryan hammer them with the numbers over and over again so instead of trying to debate the issues they sent Joe Biden out there to disrupt the proceedings with the side show he put on.

The "disdain" that was shown was for the American people. We deserved a debate on the issues by two serious people. Instead what we got was Joe Biden playing the class clown because his side doesn't really want to talk about serious issues because his side has no answers TO those serious issues.

Yup. And mission accomplished. Few remember anything Ryan said during the debate because everything he tried to say was covered by Biden's guffawing, snickering, raucous laughter, mugging, and verbal interruptions. All any of us really remember is that aspect of the debate. Of course it was orchestrated and planned that way, and no doubt arranged with the moderator to allow it as she never once attempted to try to curtail it.

It is a really sad commentary on the Obama camp that they thought this tactic was safer than allowing a debate between Joe Biden and Paul Ryan. They (apparently rightfully) trusted their base to approve the tactic, defend Biden, or at least justify and forgive him as it always does.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It is in sight, yet?

Yes, shouting down someone who has the floor at a town hall is criminal disruption, so, yes, it is not the same thing as Biden.

Why don't you sight the law that was being broken.

I'd sight it for you, but it isn't in sight yet. Maybe if we hunt around enough, we might be able to find someone who can cite the law for us, ya think?

And you call someone else "shit-for-brains"?

 

[JakeStarkey]

If you think Biden's behavor was orchestrated with the moderator, Foxfyre, you are becoming delusional.

You are becoming a sad yet accurate facsimile of the libertarian wing and the extremist wing descending into unreality.

 

[Oldstyle]

If you think Biden's behavor was orchestrated with the moderator, Foxfyre, you are becoming delusional.

You are becoming a sad yet accurate facsimile of the libertarian wing and the extremist wing descending into unreality.

If Martha Raddatz had REALLY wanted a debate, Jake...she would have given Joe Biden a short lecture on debate etiquette and told him to refrain from what he was doing. His actions went so far across the line that it's something that should have been done but in Raddatz's defense I'm sure she had no inkling that a Vice President of the United States would act in such a way and was hesitant to lecture him like you would a disruptive schoolboy making farting noises in the back of class.