16% of Americans do not believe in Climate Change.

[Abraham3]

What difference does that make?

If 95% of Americans "believe" that the Nazis were the bad guys in WWII, that means that maybe 5% think that the Nazi's were the good guys. Neither "side" can claim a victory in the debate based on the percentage of believers.

Flip it around. If 95% believed that the Nazis were the good guys, would that make it true?

The OP is about Americans' beliefs regarding climate change.

And the OP has been shown to be factually incorrect. Thanks for playing..

Just saying it doesn't make it so.

 

[Saigon]

Ilar -

You didn't answer the question.

You know as well as I do that scientists overwhelmingly support AGW, and that very, very few scientists share your opinion.

Scientists overwhelmingly believed that stress caused stomach ulcers. Scientists overwhelmingly believed that plate tectonics was not true. Scientists overwhelmingly believed that quasicrystals did not exist. What's your point? The list of what scientists have overwhelmingly believed that turned out to be wrong is embarassingly long and in this case, the claims of consensus are fabricated.

I guess we should just abandon science altogether. Science is obviously incompetent. Instead, we should rely on... you?

The only reason you know that those things were wrong was that science found out and told you so. The proportion of things science believes that are incorrect has been decreasing since the time of Francis Bacon. This is not evidence that science is flawed, this is evidence that science keeps moving closer to the truth - as they're supposed to.

I am at a complete loss how you manage to maintain the reputation you have with some people here.

Indeed - and this is what it comes down to.

Faith-based posters want us to ignore scientists and listen to them instead.

But why would any sensible person do so?

If scientists come to faulty conclusions 1% of the time - how is that worse than the record of sceptics and faith-healers?

Do the same people who deny science here also think rhino horn is better than any western medicine?

 

[Saigon]

Broken Wall -

And the OP has been shown to be factually incorrect. Thanks for playing..

The material is linked at the beginning of the thread.

Of course different research studies will show differing results, but the basic trend is clear for everyone.

For all else - see my sig line. You have never proven anything on this board and never will - least of all to yourself.

 

[Toro]

What difference does that make?

If 95% of Americans "believe" that the Nazis were the bad guys in WWII, that means that maybe 5% think that the Nazi's were the good guys. Neither "side" can claim a victory in the debate based on the percentage of believers.

Flip it around. If 95% believed that the Nazis were the good guys, would that make it true?

The OP is about Americans' beliefs regarding climate change.

And the OP has been shown to be factually incorrect. Thanks for playing..

I have no opinion on global warming. The OP is about American perceptions about global warming, not whether there is man-made global warming. So unless you have shown the polls posted in the OP are methodologically wrong, or there are other polls contradicting the OP, the OP is not factually incorrect.

You do understand this, right?

 

[westwall]

The OP is about Americans' beliefs regarding climate change.

And the OP has been shown to be factually incorrect. Thanks for playing..

Just saying it doesn't make it so.

So, for those too lazy or stupid to check back to page two let's demolish the OP yet again!

Poll: Many Americans not all that concerned about climate change


Poll: Many Americans not all that concerned about climate change ? CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


Americans Among Least Concerned About Climate Change


Americans Among Least Concerned About Climate Change


And then the ultimate demonstration of the laughable position, and total lack of the reality of the situation now playing out to the fraudsters we have this....


New EU Poll: Europeans No Longer Concerned About Climate Change

Last year a paltry 5% of all Europeans rated climate change as their most pressing concern. In the new poll the percentage has gone down to 4%. Most likely climate change will soon disappear completely, despite of the barrage of alarmist propaganda produced in Brussels (and funded by European taxpayers).

Only in Malta (22%), Sweden (19%) and Germany (10%) does the number get into double digits. Even in Hedegaard’s home country Denmark, only 9% of the people rate climate change as their main concern. And in seven countries Slovakia, Hungary, Portugal, Spain, Latvia, Estonia and Greece the number is zero (0%).

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/eb/eb79/eb79_first_en.pdf


That is the REALITY of your bullshit polls.

But you guys are religious fanatics so facts and science don't matter to you. We get it....but they DO matter to the real world.

 

[westwall]

The OP is about Americans' beliefs regarding climate change.

And the OP has been shown to be factually incorrect. Thanks for playing..

I have no opinion on global warming. The OP is about American perceptions about global warming, not whether there is man-made global warming. So unless you have shown the polls posted in the OP are methodologically wrong, or there are other polls contradicting the OP, the OP is not factually incorrect.

You do understand this, right?

Which I did on page two, and just posted again for your entertainment and education. And will do so again!


Poll: Many Americans not all that concerned about climate change

Poll: Many Americans not all that concerned about climate change ? CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


Americans Among Least Concerned About Climate Change

Americans Among Least Concerned About Climate Change

And then the ultimate demonstration of the laughable position, and total lack of the reality of the situation now playing out to the fraudsters we have this....


New EU Poll: Europeans No Longer Concerned About Climate Change


Last year a paltry 5% of all Europeans rated climate change as their most pressing concern. In the new poll the percentage has gone down to 4%.[/COLOR] Most likely climate change will soon disappear completely, despite of the barrage of alarmist propaganda produced in Brussels (and funded by European taxpayers).

Only in Malta (22%), Sweden (19%) and Germany (10%) does the number get into double digits. Even in Hedegaard’s home country Denmark, only 9% of the people rate climate change as their main concern. And in seven countries Slovakia, Hungary, Portugal, Spain, Latvia, Estonia and Greece the number is zero (0%).[/COLOR]

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/eb/eb79/eb79_first_en.pdf



That is the REALITY of your bullshit polls.

But you guys are religious fanatics so facts and science don't matter to you. We get it....but they DO matter to the real world.

 

[Toro]

"Not concerned" and "not believing" are two different things.

 

[westwall]

"Not concerned" and "not believing" are two different things.

Only to religious fanatics maybe. In the real world you are being proven wrong over and over and over again.

Thanks for playing.......

 

[Saigon]

Broken Wall -

So, for those too lazy or stupid to check back to page two let's demolish the OP yet again!

Firstly, what one poll shows does not mean another poll is false - they were conducted at different times,with different subject groups.

Secondly, you are lying about what 'your' poll does show - present the results honestly and they largely back-up the results of 'my' poll.

Funnily enough - I actually pointed out your biggest lie with this earlier (you claim only 5% of Europeans citing climate change as the biggest problem, when in fact 75% list it is as a crisis!) and yet here you are repeating it again.

Why not post honestly?

Seriously - I challenge you to present the results of your poll as they are....can you do that? Or are you just going to keep lying?

 

[Saigon]

"Not concerned" and "not believing" are two different things.

Indeed.

I'm amazed how difficult it is for some posters to accept the basic facts in their own material and post accordingly.

 

[gslack]

Broken Wall -

So, for those too lazy or stupid to check back to page two let's demolish the OP yet again!

Firstly, what one poll shows does not mean another poll is false - they were conducted at different times,with different subject groups.

Secondly, you are lying about what 'your' poll does show - present the results honestly and they largely back-up the results of 'my' poll.

Funnily enough - I actually pointed out your biggest lie with this earlier (you claim only 5% of Europeans citing climate change as the biggest problem, when in fact 75% list it is as a crisis!) and yet here you are repeating it again.

Why not post honestly?

Seriously - I challenge you to present the results of your poll as they are....can you do that? Or are you just going to keep lying?

Why don't you post honestly?

You provided a poll done by a collaberation of two climate change advocacy groups and pretend it's perfectly honest... one self interest is as least as viable as any other, so drop the pretense...

your poll conducted by the Yale Project on Climate Change Communication and The George Mason University Center for Climate change communication...

No climate crisis, no funding, no funding no center for climate change communication.... LOL, you listed a poll done by Climate change PR groups and you have the nerve to accuse others of dishonesty?

ROFL, what BS....

Make sure you neg-rep me again crybaby, wouldn't want you to miss one..

 

[Saigon]

Gslack -

I have material here from FIVE other independent agencies, all of which show broadly similar results. The only reason I didn't add them all in here was because I'd recently included them in another thread.

I'm happy to post them all if you commit to commenting on them honestly and with an open mind. Deal?

 

[westwall]

Gslack -

I have material here from FIVE other independent agencies, all of which show broadly similar results. The only reason I didn't add them all in here was because I'd recently included them in another thread.

I'm happy to post them all if you commit to commenting on them honestly and with an open mind. Deal?

Who cares? No one in Europe or America seems to care. Well, no one except those who hope to get fabulously rich by screwing over the middle class. YOU guys care a LOT.

 

[gslack]

Gslack -

I have material here from FIVE other independent agencies, all of which show broadly similar results. The only reason I didn't add them all in here was because I'd recently included them in another thread.

I'm happy to post them all if you commit to commenting on them honestly and with an open mind. Deal?

Translation = So what if your OP was a bias piece of PR, you have more bias pieces from other similarly bias sources...

An overwhelming amount of tainted evidence, is still tainted evidence, and not proof of anything...

I would expect a self-proclaimed JOURNALIST would know this, even a finnish one who isn't actually finnish or even in finland...

 

[Saigon]

Gslack -

I do like to give you the opportunity to discuss the topic like an adult every so often.

The fact that you run away from doing so speaks volumes.

 

[SSDD]

I guess we should just abandon science altogether. Science is obviously incompetent. Instead, we should rely on... you?

No. We should go back to doing science via real world experiment as opposed to accepting the output of computer models as if it were actual data.

For example, actual real world measurements taken along the same line of latitude and in fact some taken at the same location with varying degrees of humidity find that increased humidity decreases the temperature lapse rate in direct opposition to the greenhouse hypothesis that predicts that additional greenhouse gasses (water being one of the most powerful) would increase the temperature lapse rate and cause the mythical hot spot that is supposed to be the fingerprint of manmade global warming.

So tell me, how does an increase in humidity result in a decrease of the temperature lapse rate and increase the temperature differential between ground level air and the tropopause if in fact, the greenhouse gas hypothesis is true?

The fact is that real world observations prove the greenhouse/AGW hypotheses wrong on a daily basis.

The only reason you know that those things were wrong was that science found out and told you so.

The only reason we know those things were wrong is because actual scientists doing actual science opposed the group think of the consensus and proved the consensus wrong (after a very long time I might add as the consensus tends to think itself right and reject evidence that it is wrong out of hand) There is ample proof that the consensus on global warming is wrong. Just recently Kevin Trenberth, one of the fathers of global warming has now stated that global warming is really just a hot spot that moves around unpredictably. He knows that the hypothesis in general has failed and is now trying to salvage what he can.

 

[SSDD]

Indeed - and this is what it comes down to.

Faith-based posters want us to ignore scientists and listen to them instead.

I am afraid that it is you and yours who are operating on faith. You can't point to a single shred of evidence that proves that adding x amount of CO2 to the atmosphere results in y amount of warming. The actual evidence proves that adding so called greenhouse gasses to the air decreases the lapse rate and in turn decrease the temperature differential between the ground and the tropopause.

If scientists come to faulty conclusions 1% of the time - how is that worse than the record of sceptics and faith-healers?

Prove your 1% claim.

 

[Saigon]

We should go back to doing science via real world experiment as opposed to accepting the output of computer models as if it were actual data.

And how would you suggest scientists forecast future trends?

 

[gslack]

Gslack -

I do like to give you the opportunity to discuss the topic like an adult every so often.

The fact that you run away from doing so speaks volumes.

Saigon - Quit being a douchebag... Your refusal to quote the posts you respond to only draws attention to your dishonest nature...

And there was no running, there was nothing to even run from.. What did you do? Nothing but claim you have more such information. You didn't post it, you didn't cite it, you didn't link to it, hell man you didn't even talk about it....

If you want me to argue the merits of your other information, you have to supply it first.. That's how it works. We don't argue on things you could post IF you felt like it, or IF you feel I will obey your rules..

Post it sparky, then we will see.

 

[Intense]

Gslack -

I have material here from FIVE other independent agencies, all of which show broadly similar results. The only reason I didn't add them all in here was because I'd recently included them in another thread.

I'm happy to post them all if you commit to commenting on them honestly and with an open mind. Deal?

Translation = So what if your OP was a bias piece of PR, you have more bias pieces from other similarly bias sources...

An overwhelming amount of tainted evidence, is still tainted evidence, and not proof of anything...

I would expect a self-proclaimed JOURNALIST would know this, even a finnish one who isn't actually finnish or even in finland...

Saigon requested that his physical location be confirmed, we will help there, as far as Country and City. This should put the issue to rest.

Country: Finland fi flag
State/Region: Southern Finland
City: Helsinki