The Gantz Megillah.

[ESay]

Read your Koran Fatima, it’s right there in the beginning. The natives aren’t the Arab invaders, they're the Children of Israel that entered the Promised land of Zion after leaving servitude in Egypt around 3500 years ago.

But didn't they massacre other people who had lived before them in this land?

 

[Roudy]

But didn't they massacre other people who had lived before them in this land?

Wrong that is not what all three holy books say.

 

[Failzero]

Jews have a target on their backs again

 

[ESay]

Wrong that is not what all three holy books say.

The OT (Torah) colourfully depicts how the Jews seized the land of Canaan. No?

 

[Failzero]

The OT (Torah) colourfully depicts how the Jews seized the land of Canaan. No?

From Giants like the ones in the Lovelock Nevada Cave or Cousins of “ The Kandahar Giant “ or Goliath of the David Story ?

 

[ESay]

From Giants like the ones in the Lovelock Nevada Cave or Cousins of “ The Kandahar Giant “ or Goliath of the David Story ?

No, a bit later. When the stories there began to remotely describe historical events.

 

[Roudy]

The OT (Torah) colourfully depicts how the Jews seized the land of Canaan. No?

Again, dipstick, there were no Arabs or Palestinians back then in the land of Israel. It was largely uninhabited land, and some of the Jews mixed with the Canaanites.

Judaism and Jews are far more peaceful than both Islam and Christianity. All these nations that now call themselves Arab (26 of them) came into existence when Mohammad appeared in the Arabian peninsula and his followers invaded and committed genocide and ethnic cleansing for the last 1400 years. Would you like to see the list?

 

[ESay]

Again, dipstick, there were no Arabs or Palestinians back then in the land of Israel. It was largely uninhabited land, and some of the Jews mixed with the Canaanites.

Judaism and Jews are far more peaceful than both Islam and Christianity. All these nations that now call themselves Arab (26 of them) came into existence when Mohammad appeared in the Arabian peninsula and his followers invaded and committed genocide and ethnic cleansing for the last 1400 years. Would you like to see the list?

Once again, the Jews seized the land of Canaan and massacred its population there. Their sacred book tells the story about that. Right or wrong?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Once again, the Jews seized the land of Canaan and massacred its population there. Their sacred book tells the story about that. Right or wrong?

While the Bible suggests they were wiped out by the Israelites under Joshua in the land of Canaan, later passages appear to contradict this and state that there were survivors. Some Biblical scholars have argued the passages describing the Canaanites wholesale destruction are hyperbole and inconclusive, and the genetic research would indeed appear to indicate the slaughter was much less extensive than described.

Scientists just disproved a historical event described in the Bible

‘You shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[ESay]

While the Bible suggests they were wiped out by the Israelites under Joshua in the land of Canaan, later passages appear to contradict this and state that there were survivors. Some Biblical scholars have argued the passages describing the Canaanites wholesale destruction are hyperbole and inconclusive, and the genetic research would indeed appear to indicate the slaughter was much less extensive than described.

Scientists just disproved a historical event described in the Bible

‘You shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them’

www.independent.co.uk

That was not the point. The point was that the Jews are not natives of that land.

 

[toomuchtime_]

That was not the point. The point was that the Jews are not natives of that land.

To what land? According to all the sources I've seen, the tribes that became the Hebrews were indigenous to the ME. According to the bible, the Hebrews were descended from one of Noah's sons, so they were not only indigenous to the ME, but they were also they were the only people in the area after the flood. Secular sources say they came from the city of Ur in what is now Iraq; they were herders so they traveled widely. After returning from captivity in Egypt, they returned to find others, such as the Canaanites, were now living in the places where after the flood, the Hebrews were the only people.

On the other hand, there were no Palestinians in those days; in fact, there were no Arabs, only Jews and some peoples who are now lost to history.

 

[expat500]

On the other hand, there were no Palestinians in those days

They were invented by Yasser Arafat. There weren’t any during the Jordanian occupation.

And prior to that, they were Jews and Arabs in Mandate Palestine, a convenient geopolitical and regional location adopted by the British for Eretz Israel.

 

[ESay]

To what land? According to all the sources I've seen, the tribes that became the Hebrews were indigenous to the ME. According to the bible, the Hebrews were descended from one of Noah's sons, so they were not only indigenous to the ME, but they were also they were the only people in the area after the flood. Secular sources say they came from the city of Ur in what is now Iraq; they were herders so they traveled widely. After returning from captivity in Egypt, they returned to find others, such as the Canaanites, were now living in the places where after the flood, the Hebrews were the only people.

On the other hand, there were no Palestinians in those days; in fact, there were no Arabs, only Jews and some peoples who are now lost to history.

I am talking specifically about the land of what now is Israel and the Palestinian autonomy; and was known in the 'prehistoric' times as Canaan (though, Canaan encompassed a larger area).

From what I can get out of my knowledge is that the land was inhabited by various tribes that had similar language, culture, religious etc. They traded with each other, fought each other, intermarried etc. And they migrated from one place to another. In other words, they did what all tribes did around the world before they became 'nations'.

Out of some of these tribes the Israelite nation was formed with its leaders, religion, traditions and that felt itself not connected with its former 'cousins'.

Now, a question arises who can be considered a descendant of the 'Canaan people'. The Jews? Yes. The 'Palestinians', Lebanese, partially Jordanians and Syrians? Maybe yes, also.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I am talking specifically about the land of what now is Israel and the Palestinian autonomy; and was known in the 'prehistoric' times as Canaan (though, Canaan encompassed a larger area).

From what I can get out of my knowledge is that the land was inhabited by various tribes that had similar language, culture, religious etc. They traded with each other, fought each other, intermarried etc. And they migrated from one place to another. In other words, they did what all tribes did around the world before they became 'nations'.

Out of some of these tribes the Israelite nation was formed with its leaders, religion, traditions and that felt itself not connected with its former 'cousins'.

Now, a question arises who can be considered a descendant of the 'Canaan people'. The Jews? Yes. The 'Palestinians', Lebanese, partially Jordanians and Syrians? Maybe yes, also.

If as you claim, the Canaanites were wiped out by the Israelites, then clearly no one can be considered a descendant of the Canaanites.

You are mistaken to think there were the Israelites and then everyone else. Each group of tribes had its own gods, its own culture and often its own language until the Muslims rode out of Arabia and with fire and sword homogenized all the others except for the Christians and Jews.

Ancient Israel lay on major trade routes between Africa and the East, so the population was quite cosmopolitan, and the bible is full of examples of ancient Jews intermarrying with other groups. Perhaps in your mind there are the Jews and then everyone else, but that was never the case. Before ancient Christians conquered Europe and obliterated all the other cultures they encountered, Jews were just one of many different cultures, but when they refused to be assimilated into the new Christian culture that ruled Europe, they wee perceived as an affront to the Christian rulers, and that's where your perception of the ancient world being composed of Jews and then everyone else comes from. The same is true of the Muslim conquest of the ME and beyond, but no such dichotomy existed in the ancient world.

While these issues may be interesting, they are completely irrelevant to what is going on in the ME today. Neither side would grant any concessions if the other side could prove it was descended from the Canaanites, so all this discussion is just a deep dive into Arab antisemitism with perhaps a little Christian bigotry thrown in.

 

[Roudy]

That was not the point. The point was that the Jews are not natives of that land.

So I guess going back 3500 years ago doesn’t make a people natives of the land. How far back do they have to go to become “natives”…the Bronze Age or Perhaps the Stone Age? Maybe you can be the head of the spear for a movement to give Israel back to the Canaanites…..OOOPS! They’re an extinct people.

You do realize that the history of the world is one empires or civilization invading other lands.

 

[ESay]

If as you claim, the Canaanites were wiped out by the Israelites, then clearly no one can be considered a descendant of the Canaanites.

You are mistaken to think there were the Israelites and then everyone else. Each group of tribes had its own gods, its own culture and often its own language until the Muslims rode out of Arabia and with fire and sword homogenized all the others except for the Christians and Jews.

Ancient Israel lay on major trade routes between Africa and the East, so the population was quite cosmopolitan, and the bible is full of examples of ancient Jews intermarrying with other groups. Perhaps in your mind there are the Jews and then everyone else, but that was never the case. Before ancient Christians conquered Europe and obliterated all the other cultures they encountered, Jews were just one of many different cultures, but when they refused to be assimilated into the new Christian culture that ruled Europe, they wee perceived as an affront to the Christian rulers, and that's where your perception of the ancient world being composed of Jews and then everyone else comes from. The same is true of the Muslim conquest of the ME and beyond, but no such dichotomy existed in the ancient world.

While these issues may be interesting, they are completely irrelevant to what is going on in the ME today. Neither side would grant any concessions if the other side could prove it was descended from the Canaanites, so all this discussion is just a deep dive into Arab antisemitism with perhaps a little Christian bigotry thrown in.

Once I again, it is not me who claims the Canaanites were wiped out. It is some sacred book says so.

Yes, I think that there were the Israelis and 'everyone else'. Those 'everyone' didn't just evaporated in thin air. They lived there, migrated, were assimilated etc. In other words, they did what other 'ancient' people did.

I also think that these historical excursions have little sense. But it is the Jews who base their territorial claims on them.

 

[ESay]

So I guess going back 3500 years ago doesn’t make a people natives of the land. How far back do they have to go to become “natives”…the Bronze Age or Perhaps the Stone Age? Maybe you can be the head of the spear for a movement to give Israel back to the Canaanites…..OOOPS! They’re an extinct people.

You do realize that the history of the world is one empires or civilization invading other lands.

Dude, it is not me who says 'Hey, our forefathers lived there in the Bronze Age, so give us this land'. It is me who says the last ages also have meaning, and you can't just expel people who lived there for centuries.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Once I again, it is not me who claims the Canaanites were wiped out. It is some sacred book says so.

Yes, I think that there were the Israelis and 'everyone else'. Those 'everyone' didn't just evaporated in thin air. They lived there, migrated, were assimilated etc. In other words, they did what other 'ancient' people did.

I also think that these historical excursions have little sense. But it is the Jews who base their territorial claims on them.

The choice of Palestine as a homeland for the Jews was based on the history of the Jews, but the state of Israel is not based on an historical claim but by international law, the promise of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine to create a homeland for the Jews in Palestine, and the relentless attacks by Arabs that forced the Jews to turn that homeland into a state that was capable of defending itself.

The Arabs who live in the area today have no historical connection to the ancient peoples who once lived there. When the newly minted Muslims swept out of Arabia to conquer the ME and beyond, they destroyed the languages, religion and cultures of all the peoples they conquered and imposed a new culture, a new religion and a new language on them, so while these discussions of ancient history can be interesting, they are entirely irrelevant to what is going on in the ME today.

 

[ESay]

The choice of Palestine as a homeland for the Jews was based on the history of the Jews, but the state of Israel is not based on an historical claim but by international law, the promise of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine to create a homeland for the Jews in Palestine, and the relentless attacks by Arabs that forced the Jews to turn that homeland into a state that was capable of defending itself.

The Arabs who live in the area today have no historical connection to the ancient peoples who once lived there. When the newly minted Muslims swept out of Arabia to conquer the ME and beyond, they destroyed the languages, religion and cultures of all the peoples they conquered and imposed a new culture, a new religion and a new language on them, so while these discussions of ancient history can be interesting, they are entirely irrelevant to what is going on in the ME today.

You always return to these historical narratives, but then claim they are irrelevant to today's events. Okay, what we have today? We have the Israeli state that has all rights to existence. And we have so called Palestinian autonomy, that is recognized as a sovereign state by majority of the UN members states and that has all rights to existence too.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You always return to these historical narratives, but then claim they are irrelevant to today's events. Okay, what we have today? We have the Israeli state that has all rights to existence. And we have so called Palestinian autonomy, that is recognized as a sovereign state by majority of the UN members states and that has all rights to existence too.

So much for diplomacy: how can they recognize a state that doesn't exist? If Israel stopped hunting down Hamas in the West Bank, the PA would quickly be overrun by Hamas and Israel would be forced to wage war in the West Bank just as it had to in Gaza. Until the so called Palestinians decide to live in peace with Israel, a Palestinian state is simply not feasible.