Can Humanity Get Away from Fossil Fuels? If we can, Will We?

Seymour Flops

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Nov 25, 2021
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Yes, and yes.

We can move away from fossil fuels. In fact, it is nearly inevitable that we do. If fossil fuels become scarce, as they almost certainly will, it will become expensive to use them, and the free market will move to renewable energy. But it will be a very gradual and deliberate process.

Along with dire predictions about the effects of using fossil fuels that inevitbly fail to come true, there have been many predictions by "experts" that we would move quickly to renewable energy. These predictions also failed.

Renewable energy sources could take the world by storm. That is what well-known advocate Amory Lovins envisaged in 1976. He claimed that by the year 2000, 33 percent of America's energy would come from many small, decentralized renewable sources. Decades later, in July 2008, environmentalist Al Gore claimed that completely repowering the country's electricity supply in a single decade would be “achievable, affordable and transformative.” And in November 2009 Mark Jacobson and Mark Delucchi published “A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables” in Scientific American, presenting a plan for converting the global energy supply entirely to renewables in just two decades.

Yet from 1990 to 2012 the world's energy from fossil fuels barely changed, down from 88 to 87 percent. In 2011 renewables generated less than 10 percent of the U.S. energy supply, and most of that came from “old” renewables, such as hydroelectric plants and burning wood waste from lumbering operations. After more than 20 years of highly subsidized development, new renewables such as wind and solar and modern biofuels such as corn ethanol have claimed only 3.35 percent of the country's energy supply.



If government takes steps to hurry that process, it can annoy us by making fossil fuels artificially expensive before they become scarce. It will not speed the transition by a noticeable amount, but it would be no more wasteful than most government actions.

If they try to rush it too much, and use too much force, they can damage the economies of the world's energy consumers, leading to famine, and death due to lack of medical care. They would shut down factories if they attemped to force them to be powered by windmills. Farms will not do well if government forces them to operate with solar powered tractors.

There has never been a government that has found a way to motivate producers more than a free market does. The purple haired college students demanding we end the use of fossil fuels are unlikely to ever compost their own feces to grow food for themselves in an urban garden. Even if they did, they would immediately be set upon by fellow students demanding a handout because they are too studious, artistic, sensitive, hormonal from transgender care, anxious, or offended by something or other, to do any useful work.

Of course, since the left focuses entirely on the U.S., and gives countries whose polution levels are far higher a pass, it would only be the U.S. economy that would suffer directly. But that will drag down the economies of nations that don't bother trying to "stop the climate from changing." Speaking of windmills, trying to do that is the epitome of tilting at them.
 
No one give a crap about the environment, or much of anything else.
 


In 2011 renewables generated less than 10 percent of the U.S. energy supply, and most of that came from “old” renewables, such as hydroelectric plants and burning wood waste from lumbering operations.
You haven't seen 'wood waste' until you've seen the aftermath of hardwood logging operations. Or the dead wood in an aging forest, or downed trees after a storm. The fuel potential is staggering, but few see it except hunters and a few nature lovers.

Of course, the biggest potential for green energy production is food waste, from the field to the table. Staggering doesn't begin to cover it.
 
You haven't seen 'wood waste' until you've seen the aftermath of hardwood logging operations. Or the dead wood in an aging forest, or downed trees after a storm. The fuel potential is staggering, but few see it except hunters and a few nature lovers.

Of course, the biggest potential for green energy production is food waste, from the field to the table. Staggering doesn't begin to cover it.

Stop exporting our petroleum products like morons, for one thing; natural gas is ridiculously over-priced for another. It should have been free for years, but instead it was just burned off to keep prices inflated.
 
Stop exporting our petroleum products like morons, for one thing; natural gas is ridiculously over-priced for another. It should have been free for years, but instead it was just burned off to keep prices inflated.
Affordable energy raises the standard of living of everyone. And even though that can lead to yet more energy consumption in itself it can also mean smaller families, which is at least a little offsetting.
 
Yes, and yes.

We can move away from fossil fuels. In fact, it is nearly inevitable that we do. If fossil fuels become scarce, as they almost certainly will, it will become expensive to use them, and the free market will move to renewable energy. But it will be a very gradual and deliberate process.

Along with dire predictions about the effects of using fossil fuels that inevitbly fail to come true, there have been many predictions by "experts" that we would move quickly to renewable energy. These predictions also failed.

Renewable energy sources could take the world by storm. That is what well-known advocate Amory Lovins envisaged in 1976. He claimed that by the year 2000, 33 percent of America's energy would come from many small, decentralized renewable sources. Decades later, in July 2008, environmentalist Al Gore claimed that completely repowering the country's electricity supply in a single decade would be “achievable, affordable and transformative.” And in November 2009 Mark Jacobson and Mark Delucchi published “A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables” in Scientific American, presenting a plan for converting the global energy supply entirely to renewables in just two decades.

Yet from 1990 to 2012 the world's energy from fossil fuels barely changed, down from 88 to 87 percent. In 2011 renewables generated less than 10 percent of the U.S. energy supply, and most of that came from “old” renewables, such as hydroelectric plants and burning wood waste from lumbering operations. After more than 20 years of highly subsidized development, new renewables such as wind and solar and modern biofuels such as corn ethanol have claimed only 3.35 percent of the country's energy supply.



If government takes steps to hurry that process, it can annoy us by making fossil fuels artificially expensive before they become scarce. It will not speed the transition by a noticeable amount, but it would be no more wasteful than most government actions.

If they try to rush it too much, and use too much force, they can damage the economies of the world's energy consumers, leading to famine, and death due to lack of medical care. They would shut down factories if they attemped to force them to be powered by windmills. Farms will not do well if government forces them to operate with solar powered tractors.

There has never been a government that has found a way to motivate producers more than a free market does. The purple haired college students demanding we end the use of fossil fuels are unlikely to ever compost their own feces to grow food for themselves in an urban garden. Even if they did, they would immediately be set upon by fellow students demanding a handout because they are too studious, artistic, sensitive, hormonal from transgender care, anxious, or offended by something or other, to do any useful work.

Of course, since the left focuses entirely on the U.S., and gives countries whose polution levels are far higher a pass, it would only be the U.S. economy that would suffer directly. But that will drag down the economies of nations that don't bother trying to "stop the climate from changing." Speaking of windmills, trying to do that is the epitome of tilting at them.


No, and no. Though it would be nice if it were possible.
 
Yes, and yes.

We can move away from fossil fuels. In fact, it is nearly inevitable that we do. If fossil fuels become scarce, as they almost certainly will, it will become expensive to use them, and the free market will move to renewable energy.
Renewables are a product of fossil fuels.

Your premise is nonsense
 
Yes, and yes.

We can move away from fossil fuels. In fact, it is nearly inevitable that we do. If fossil fuels become scarce, as they almost certainly will, it will become expensive to use them, and the free market will move to renewable energy. But it will be a very gradual and deliberate process.

Along with dire predictions about the effects of using fossil fuels that inevitbly fail to come true, there have been many predictions by "experts" that we would move quickly to renewable energy. These predictions also failed.

Renewable energy sources could take the world by storm. That is what well-known advocate Amory Lovins envisaged in 1976. He claimed that by the year 2000, 33 percent of America's energy would come from many small, decentralized renewable sources. Decades later, in July 2008, environmentalist Al Gore claimed that completely repowering the country's electricity supply in a single decade would be “achievable, affordable and transformative.” And in November 2009 Mark Jacobson and Mark Delucchi published “A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables” in Scientific American, presenting a plan for converting the global energy supply entirely to renewables in just two decades.

Yet from 1990 to 2012 the world's energy from fossil fuels barely changed, down from 88 to 87 percent. In 2011 renewables generated less than 10 percent of the U.S. energy supply, and most of that came from “old” renewables, such as hydroelectric plants and burning wood waste from lumbering operations. After more than 20 years of highly subsidized development, new renewables such as wind and solar and modern biofuels such as corn ethanol have claimed only 3.35 percent of the country's energy supply.



If government takes steps to hurry that process, it can annoy us by making fossil fuels artificially expensive before they become scarce. It will not speed the transition by a noticeable amount, but it would be no more wasteful than most government actions.

If they try to rush it too much, and use too much force, they can damage the economies of the world's energy consumers, leading to famine, and death due to lack of medical care. They would shut down factories if they attemped to force them to be powered by windmills. Farms will not do well if government forces them to operate with solar powered tractors.

There has never been a government that has found a way to motivate producers more than a free market does. The purple haired college students demanding we end the use of fossil fuels are unlikely to ever compost their own feces to grow food for themselves in an urban garden. Even if they did, they would immediately be set upon by fellow students demanding a handout because they are too studious, artistic, sensitive, hormonal from transgender care, anxious, or offended by something or other, to do any useful work.

Of course, since the left focuses entirely on the U.S., and gives countries whose polution levels are far higher a pass, it would only be the U.S. economy that would suffer directly. But that will drag down the economies of nations that don't bother trying to "stop the climate from changing." Speaking of windmills, trying to do that is the epitome of tilting at them.
Nope -

Russia has found huge oil and gas reserves in British Antarctic territory

 
As long as we strictly regulate how they are extracted we can count on them. It's easy to comply with safe water and air regulations.
 
cargo ships.jpg



OP...it is not just fuel. Petrochemicals use of crude and NG is huge. No fossil fuels and it is a 90%+ die off, bub. Crude built our world, rip it out and no world as we know it. No fungible replacement for crude oil.
 
We have no choice since fossil fuels come from 100 million year old swamps, that are disappearing.

But EVs make no sense because of the heavy batteries they require you cart around.

The most logical are bio fuels like ethanol, or hydrogen from nuclear power.
 
Yes, and yes.

We can move away from fossil fuels. In fact, it is nearly inevitable that we do. If fossil fuels become scarce, as they almost certainly will, it will become expensive to use them, and the free market will move to renewable energy. But it will be a very gradual and deliberate process.

Along with dire predictions about the effects of using fossil fuels that inevitbly fail to come true, there have been many predictions by "experts" that we would move quickly to renewable energy. These predictions also failed.

Renewable energy sources could take the world by storm. That is what well-known advocate Amory Lovins envisaged in 1976. He claimed that by the year 2000, 33 percent of America's energy would come from many small, decentralized renewable sources. Decades later, in July 2008, environmentalist Al Gore claimed that completely repowering the country's electricity supply in a single decade would be “achievable, affordable and transformative.” And in November 2009 Mark Jacobson and Mark Delucchi published “A Plan to Power 100 Percent of the Planet with Renewables” in Scientific American, presenting a plan for converting the global energy supply entirely to renewables in just two decades.

Yet from 1990 to 2012 the world's energy from fossil fuels barely changed, down from 88 to 87 percent. In 2011 renewables generated less than 10 percent of the U.S. energy supply, and most of that came from “old” renewables, such as hydroelectric plants and burning wood waste from lumbering operations. After more than 20 years of highly subsidized development, new renewables such as wind and solar and modern biofuels such as corn ethanol have claimed only 3.35 percent of the country's energy supply.



If government takes steps to hurry that process, it can annoy us by making fossil fuels artificially expensive before they become scarce. It will not speed the transition by a noticeable amount, but it would be no more wasteful than most government actions.

If they try to rush it too much, and use too much force, they can damage the economies of the world's energy consumers, leading to famine, and death due to lack of medical care. They would shut down factories if they attemped to force them to be powered by windmills. Farms will not do well if government forces them to operate with solar powered tractors.

There has never been a government that has found a way to motivate producers more than a free market does. The purple haired college students demanding we end the use of fossil fuels are unlikely to ever compost their own feces to grow food for themselves in an urban garden. Even if they did, they would immediately be set upon by fellow students demanding a handout because they are too studious, artistic, sensitive, hormonal from transgender care, anxious, or offended by something or other, to do any useful work.

Of course, since the left focuses entirely on the U.S., and gives countries whose polution levels are far higher a pass, it would only be the U.S. economy that would suffer directly. But that will drag down the economies of nations that don't bother trying to "stop the climate from changing." Speaking of windmills, trying to do that is the epitome of tilting at them.
Zero-point exists....It's being withheld from us, in order to keep the hoi poloy on the hamster wheel.
 
We could do hydrogen from nuclear.

Brazil does ethanol from melons.
We could do ethanol from melons, sugar beets, sugar cane, etc.
Geothermal is extremely expensive, dirty, toxic. Not really green or renewable
Brazil does ethanol from sugarcane and it is terrible as a fuel.

There is no need for ethanol, it takes like two gallons of gas to make a gallon of ethanol.
And I am sure the people starving across the USA, the World, would prefer to eat melons and have sugar
Turning more farmland into a fuel will make food much more expensive. Then of course, where will you get the Ammonia you need to grow sugar beets, and cane (melons are dumb).
 
Conservation, insulation, and innovation will give us decades if not centuries more time to figger it out.

"If we each do a little, we can all do a lot."

Is doing a little too much to ask?
 

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