Who Owns Palestine?

[Shusha]

FAFO

Yep.

 

[Sayaras]

Palestine ended in 1948 ( Prior to that is was a British Mandate region )

Simple truth

 

[Nobody911]

Who owns Palestine? I ask this question in the context of defining Israel's geographical boundaries within the "river to the sea." I am beginning to think that without that answer, acceptance of Israel's "right to exist" is a false condition for lasting peace in that region.

What if Israel publicly disclaimed any territory outside of its borders and recognized a Palestinian State? In that event, wouldn't that allow Israel to declare war on Palestine if it allowed attacks on Israel from within its borders? Wouldn't that place Israel's incursions on a sounder legal footing and place a burden of resolution of this conflict (rather than condemnation) on the UN?

I understand that a "two-state solution" is a dirty word to most Israelis, but what other description can fit the current situation? Unless Israel really wants to incorporate the entire area and a huge hostile population with it, what is the alternative? Perpetual warfare?

According to the Bible, who owns the earth?

The Bible teaches that God is the owner of the earth. Psalm 24:1 states, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it". This verse emphasizes that God has authority over the land and exercises sovereignty over those who dwell on it.

Additionally, Psalm 115:16 states, "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S; But the earth He has given to the children of men". This verse clarifies that while God owns the earth, He has given humans the use of it, not the title deed of ownership. Therefore, according to the Bible, God is the ultimate owner of the earth.

==> Palestine is part of the earth, so God owns this land. We humans, all races, have right to use Palestine. But no humans allowed to own Palestine or the earth.

However, humans themselves have GREED. They ignore God. Humans keep killing each other for lands that are nothing but their own graveyards. Amen!

Edit:
It's important to note that different interpretations and perspectives exist regarding this topic. However, the cited verses provide insight into the biblical understanding of God's ownership of the earth.

Sources :

1. Who Owns the Land?

2. God Owns The Earth

 

[P F Tinmore]

Interesting question. Here is where you have to look at real history not just talking points.

The talking points say that in the 1948 war, Israel captured more territory than that allotted to it in Resolution 181. There are some problems here.

One is that Resolution 181 was never implemented. There was no allotted territory.

Another is that it is inadmissible to acquire territory through the threat or use of force. All conquered territory must be returned.

 

[eagle1462010]

Palestine doesnt exist. Palestinian Mandate from the British did.

Brirain made that JORDAN

 

[Shusha]

... All conquered territory must be returned.

Good thing both Jordan and Egypt returned it to Israel, then.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Interesting question. Here is where you have to look at real history not just talking points.

The talking points say that in the 1948 war, Israel captured more territory than that allotted to it in Resolution 181. There are some problems here.

One is that Resolution 181 was never implemented. There was no allotted territory.

Another is that it is inadmissible to acquire territory through the threat or use of force. All conquered territory must be returned.

Sorry, it's not going to be returned to the Ottoman Empire.

 

[rylah]

Interesting question. Here is where you have to look at real history not just talking points.

The talking points say that in the 1948 war, Israel captured more territory than that allotted to it in Resolution 181. There are some problems here.

One is that Resolution 181 was never implemented. There was no allotted territory.

Another is that it is inadmissible to acquire territory through the threat or use of force. All conquered territory must be returned.

Here's the problem, the land was already allotted to the Jewish nation,

by rejecting 181, outside agreement with Israel,

any Arab rule in the land is illegal.

So who is your doctor?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Sorry, it's not going to be returned to the Ottoman Empire.

That is true. The Ottoman Empire ceded that territory to Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Here's the problem, the land was already allotted to the Jewish nation,

by rejecting 181, any Arab rule in the land is illegal.

So who is your doctor?

Here's the problem, the land was already allotted to the Jewish nation,

By whom?

 

[Failzero]

Or

Sorry, it's not going to be returned to the Ottoman Empire.

Or Rome or the Macedonians

 

[Shusha]

That is true. The Ottoman Empire ceded that territory to Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.

Correction: The Ottoman Empire renounced all rights and title to the territory.

 

[rylah]

By whom?

By the same international law

that created all the states in the region.

Why do you come here if you know so little?

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

Who owns Palestine? I ask this question in the context of defining Israel's geographical boundaries within the "river to the sea." I am beginning to think that without that answer, acceptance of Israel's "right to exist" is a false condition for lasting peace in that region.

What if Israel publicly disclaimed any territory outside of its borders and recognized a Palestinian State? In that event, wouldn't that allow Israel to declare war on Palestine if it allowed attacks on Israel from within its borders? Wouldn't that place Israel's incursions on a sounder legal footing and place a burden of resolution of this conflict (rather than condemnation) on the UN?

I understand that a "two-state solution" is a dirty word to most Israelis, but what other description can fit the current situation? Unless Israel really wants to incorporate the entire area and a huge hostile population with it, what is the alternative? Perpetual warfare?

Israel is essentially the over lord controlling the water , food and supplies into the Palestinian Territories.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That is true. The Ottoman Empire ceded that territory to Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne.

Ceded it to the allies, not to a bunch of Arab squatters.

 

[rylah]

That is true. The Ottoman Empire ceded that territory to Palestine in the Treaty of Lausanne

Nonsense,

and you had more than a decade

to find that reference, why can't you?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Interesting question. Here is where you have to look at real history not just talking points.

The talking points say that in the 1948 war, Israel captured more territory than that allotted to it in Resolution 181. There are some problems here.

One is that Resolution 181 was never implemented. There was no allotted territory.

Another is that it is inadmissible to acquire territory through the threat or use of force. All conquered territory must be returned.

Nonsense. 181 defined the territories for the proposed Jewish state and the proposed Arab state and the Jews accepted the land proposed in 181, so it was implemented. The Arabs, both those in the proposed Jewish state and the Arabs nations, announced a war of genocide against the Jews, and were soundly defeated and the truce lines were then recognized as the borders of the new Jewish state. The land the Jews acquired while defeating the invading Arabs was the unincorporated remnant of the Mandate for Palestine after the state of Jordan had been created so no one else had a claim to it.

Azzam's Genocidal Threat​

War of Extermination​

An October 11, 1947 report on the pan-Arab summit in the Lebanese town of Aley,[9] by Akhbar al-Yom's editor Mustafa Amin, contained an interview he held with Arab League secretary-general Azzam. Titled, "A War of Extermination," the interview read as follows (translated by Efraim Karsh; all ellipses are in the original text):

Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha spoke to me about the horrific war that was in the offing… saying:
"I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre[10] or the Crusader wars. I believe that the number of volunteers from outside Palestine will be larger than Palestine's Arab population, for I know that volunteers will be arriving to us from [as far as] India, Afghanistan, and China to win the honor of martyrdom for the sake of Palestine … You might be surprised to learn that hundreds of Englishmen expressed their wish to volunteer in the Arab armies to fight the Jews.

"This war will be distinguished by three serious matters. First—faith: as each fighter deems his death on behalf of Palestine as the shortest road to paradise; second, [the war] will be an opportunity for vast plunder. Third, it will be impossible to contain the zealous volunteers arriving from all corners of the world to avenge the martyrdom of the Palestine Arabs, and viewing the war as dignifying every Arab and every Muslim throughout the world …

"The Arab is superior to the Jew in that he accepts defeat with a smile: Should the Jews defeat us in the first battle, we will defeat them in the second or the third battle … or the final one… whereas one defeat will shatter the Jew's morale! Most desert Arabians take pleasure in fighting. I recall being tasked with mediating a truce in a desert war (in which I participated) that lasted for nine months…While en route to sign the truce, I was approached by some of my comrades in arms who told me: 'Shame on you! You are a man of the people, so how could you wish to end the war … How can we live without war?' This is because war gives the Bedouin a sense of happiness, bliss, and security that peace does not provide! …

"I warned the Jewish leaders I met in London to desist from their policy,[11] telling them that the Arab was the mightiest of soldiers and the day he draws his weapon, he will not lay it down until firing the last bullet in the battle, and we will fire the last shot …"

Azzam's Genocidal Threat

Of the countless threats of violence, made by Arab and Palestinian leaders in the run up to and in the wake of the November 29, 1947 partition resolution, none has resonated more widely than the warning by Abdul Rahman Azzam, the Arab League's first

www.meforum.org

 

[rylah]

Who owns Palestine? I ask this question in the context of defining Israel's geographical boundaries within the "river to the sea." I am beginning to think that without that answer, acceptance of Israel's "right to exist" is a false condition for lasting peace in that region.

What if Israel publicly disclaimed any territory outside of its borders and recognized a Palestinian State? In that event, wouldn't that allow Israel to declare war on Palestine if it allowed attacks on Israel from within its borders? Wouldn't that place Israel's incursions on a sounder legal footing and place a burden of resolution of this conflict (rather than condemnation) on the UN?

I understand that a "two-state solution" is a dirty word to most Israelis, but what other description can fit the current situation? Unless Israel really wants to incorporate the entire area and a huge hostile population with it, what is the alternative? Perpetual warfare?

Arab imperialists -

who can't even pronounce it?

 

[Stryder50]

There was a "two-state" solution @76 years ago with the U.N. partition into a Jewish State=Israel and an Arab/Islam 'State' = "Palestine".

Arab/Islam nations in the region rejected that solution, attacked Israel to eliminate it and the Jews, hence the first "conflict"/"war", in 1948.

Essentially that has continued, been on-going, and resolution will not be pleasant, or acceptable to Islam.

I was expecting many to see between the lines, so here's another attempt.

Historically, the victor in a war decides the boundaries that exist afterwards.

The 1948 Israel-Arab war was started by the Arabs with intent to destroy nation of Israel and kill and/or expel all the Jews in the Levant. Thus the terms were set by the attackers, "Winner takes all."

While the "International Community" would have sat back and done nothing had the Arabs/Muslims won, and finished what the Nazis started; they weren't about to let the Jews/Israel win by "too much". Hence added efforts by the U.N. and others to effect a ceasefire and allow some of the partitioned Levant remain in Muslim/Arab/"Palestinian" hands.

See these maps for some visual on the ebb and flow and final results by 1949.

1948 Arab–Israeli War​

1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia ​

en.wikipedia.org

Once the fighting ceased, this became the "Green Line" or redone boundaries.

Green Line (Israel) - Wikipedia ​

en.wikipedia.org

 

[P F Tinmore]

I was expecting many to see between the lines, so here's another attempt.

Historically, the victor in a war decides the boundaries that exist afterwards.

The 1948 Israel-Arab war was started by the Arabs with intent to destroy nation of Israel and kill and/or expel all the Jews in the Levant. Thus the terms were set by the attackers, "Winner takes all."

While the "International Community" would have sat back and done nothing had the Arabs/Muslims won, and finished what the Nazis started; they weren't about to let the Jews/Israel win by "too much". Hence added efforts by the U.N. and others to effect a ceasefire and allow some of the partitioned Levant remain in Muslim/Arab/"Palestinian" hands.

See these maps for some visual on the ebb and flow and final results by 1949.

1948 Arab–Israeli War​

1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia ​

en.wikipedia.org

Once the fighting ceased, this became the "Green Line" or redone boundaries.

Green Line (Israel) - Wikipedia ​

en.wikipedia.org

Thanks for the map of Palestine. Look in the legend for the symbol for International Boundaries, then find them on the map.

BTW, the Green Line was specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries.