Zone1 Where does it say in the Bible only adults can be baptized?

[Marianne]

Baptism is the Sacrament of initiation into the Body of Christ. It is a statement that the parents and family are not going to raise their child in worldly ways, the way of Adam and Eve, but in the way of God as a follower and discipleship (discipline of) Christ. It is a statement that the child will be raised in obedience to the Way of Christ (I am the way the truth and the life) rather than the path of disobedience chosen by Adam and Eve.

Yes I agree. Obedience is better than sacrifice. Disobedience is what got us into this mess. Of course Jesus was both obedience and sacrifice


Baptism is obedience but also symbolic of rebirth. When you are born you go from being in water or amniotic fluid to being born. The Bible says we must be born again. Our baptism is symbolic of that rebirth. We once again emerge from the water and into the spirit. This was seen at Jesus’s baptism when the spirit in the form of a dove descended on Jesus and God said “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

Not being able to enter the kingdom unless you are born of water and spirit and child mortality being so high until recently, it’s understandable why the church and parents would want that process to begin ASAP rather than waiting until they become adults.

I was baptized as a baby but redid my baptism as an adult shortly after accepting Christ as my Lord and Savior. It was an act of obedience but also a public declaration and commitment of my faith.



Mathew 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

John 3:3

King James Version

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3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Matthew 3:16

King James Version

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16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

1 Samuel 15:22

King James Version

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22 And Samuel said, Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

 

[Meriweather]

Not being able to enter the kingdom unless you are born of water and spirit and child mortality being so high until recently, it’s understandable why the church and parents would want that process to begin ASAP rather than waiting until they become adults.

I was baptized as a baby but redid my baptism as an adult shortly after accepting Christ as my Lord and Savior. It was an act of obedience but also a public declaration and commitment of my faith.

I was baptized as a baby, and at a very young age (I'm speaking of toddler) understood who I was and what it meant. I would have no sooner given up my baptism than I would have given up my mom, dad, or any of my siblings. It was a part of who I was and was shaping myself to become and to be. I was determined to pursue and know God. I grew up hearing and praying, "I believe in one baptism, the forgiveness of sins..." And "accepting" Jesus as Lord and Savior would have been like saying to my parents, "I accept you as my parents, so let's go to a hospital and you can swaddle me up and drive me home so I have a memory of this happening." For me, it was a matter of always believing these were my parents and always believing in God and Christ as Lord and Savior of all.

This being said, I have also met people first baptized as an adult, or baptized again as an adult, and that means as much to them as being baptized as an infant means to me. I get it. And the great thing about baptism whenever it is done, it brings not only rejoicing but continual joy which came to me at a very young age--for which I credit my baptism.

 

[surada]

Where does the Bible say that?

Original sin became Christian doctrine in the 3rd century AD. Jews and Muslims don't believe in original sin.

 

[surada]

I'm not sure but it is there. I think it is the Gospel of John

It speaks of water baptism and compares it to Noah and the Flood.

something about "Baptism now saveth you"

That's ridiculous.

 

[Marianne]

I was baptized as a baby, and at a very young age (I'm speaking of toddler) understood who I was and what it meant. I would have no sooner given up my baptism than I would have given up my mom, dad, or any of my siblings. It was a part of who I was and was shaping myself to become and to be. I was determined to pursue and know God. I grew up hearing and praying, "I believe in one baptism, the forgiveness of sins..." And "accepting" Jesus as Lord and Savior would have been like saying to my parents, "I accept you as my parents, so let's go to a hospital and you can swaddle me up and drive me home so I have a memory of this happening." For me, it was a matter of always believing these were my parents and always believing in God and Christ as Lord and Savior of all.

This being said, I have also met people first baptized as an adult, or baptized again as an adult, and that means as much to them as being baptized as an infant means to me. I get it. And the great thing about baptism whenever it is done, it brings not only rejoicing but continual joy which came to me at a very young age--for which I credit my baptism.

I’ve been baptized 3 times. I don’t remember my first one because I was 3 months old.

My second Baptism means the most to me so there’s my “ one Baptism”. I was an adult and it was my personal decision to follow Christ made public.

My third was in the Jordan River in Israel. Who wouldn’t want the chance to be baptized in the same river where Jesus was baptized?

I’m glad you remember your child baptism. I remember back to the first year of my life but not until I was almost one. I wish I could remember that first baptism. I remember my confirmation but it didn’t really mean anything to me at the time. I was just doing what my parents told me to. For me it was September 3,1981 that meant the most to me. That’s the day I accepted Christ as my Savior and made a personal decision to follow Christ.
Your blessed to have your ducks in a row so young. God is good.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

I'm not going to argue a straw man.

Find out what True Catholicism is, for starters

I'm asking questions, not presenting straw men.

 

[Meriweather]

The only way out of this dilemma that I can see is that unbaptized children/fetuses that die are reincarnated. While there some evidence for reincarnation in the Bible, there also some against it. I don't know that any Christian sect has opted for this explanation.

There was no dilemma. Etymology and changes in language still offer the best explanation. When the question arose about what happened to babies who were not baptized, the matter was studied. It was discovered scripture didn't address this possibility, so the church (not the baby) was in limbo, meaning at the edge of any possible answer. Edge of hell? Edge of heaven? No Biblical answer or tradition. It took little time for "Limbo" to become a place instead of an explanation, which is why Vatican II changed the teaching to babies who died before being baptized are in the hands of a merciful and loving God.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

There was no dilemma. Etymology and changes in language still offer the best explanation. When the question arose about what happened to babies who were not baptized, the matter was studied. It was discovered scripture didn't address this possibility, so the church (not the baby) was in limbo, meaning at the edge of any possible answer. Edge of hell? Edge of heaven? No Biblical answer or tradition. It took little time for "Limbo" to become a place instead of an explanation, which is why Vatican II changed the teaching to babies who died before being baptized are in the hands of a merciful and loving God.

Limbo doesn't solve the dilemma. Eventually God either sends the baby to Hell or Heaven. If even one baby gets sent to Hell then that God is a monster. If they all go to Heaven then infanticide is a moral imperative.

 

[Meriweather]

Limbo doesn't solve the dilemma. Eventually God either sends the baby to Hell or Heaven. If even one baby gets sent to Hell then that God is a monster. If they all go to Heaven then infanticide is a moral imperative.

By whose logic?

 

[LeroyDumonde]

By whose logic?

Is that the best dodge you can come up with?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It doesn't. I have read the Bible. I know it's a shock to hear a Catholic say that, but it's a true story. I've actually read or heard it over and over because the Catholic Church gives us scripture every day, not just on Sunday.

Anyhow, it does not say in the Bible you can't baptize infants and it is inferred that infants were indeed baptized. In Acts, it says "whole households" were baptized. Most households had infants and/or children.

Jesus said to let the children come to Him.

etc

one must ACCEPT Jesus and that requires the person be old enough to understand the concept.

 

[Cougarbear]

It doesn't. I have read the Bible. I know it's a shock to hear a Catholic say that, but it's a true story. I've actually read or heard it over and over because the Catholic Church gives us scripture every day, not just on Sunday.

Anyhow, it does not say in the Bible you can't baptize infants and it is inferred that infants were indeed baptized. In Acts, it says "whole households" were baptized. Most households had infants and/or children.

Jesus said to let the children come to Him.

etc

Doctrine like baptism has been polluted for centuries by misunderstanding or changing the doctrine of baptism. Do Catholics believe baptism is for the remission of sins for those who repent? I don't believe so. I believe they think it has to do with washing away the stain of Adam's transgression and that infants and small children are dirty without it. Yet, Jesus said we should be as little children because such is the kingdom of God.

The truth is we are not responsible for the sins and transgressions of our father all the way back to Adam. We are affected by their decisions by influences we may encounter. But, we are not guilty of any sin they committed including Adam and Eve's original sins. There is no reason to baptize infants and small children. When they get to a point that they understand sin and the consequences of sin, then they need to be baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. That's about at the age of 8.

 

[Cougarbear]

one must ACCEPT Jesus and that requires the person be old enough to understand the concept.

Not just that but to understand sin so they can repent of their sins. That means they need the Holy Ghost as well so they know when they have sin because the Holy Ghost withdraws at that point until repentance.

 

[Meriweather]

Is that the best dodge you can come up with?

You are confusing curiosity with dodging. No matter.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Jesus said that the only way to the Father is through him. Since babies haven't accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior they go to Hell when they die. Those who believe in infant baptism invented a loophole.

says you

The Catholic Church doesn't say that at all

 

[forkintheroad7]

Repentance and an outward show of faith is usually part of baptism. Babies can neither repent nor make an outward show of faith. It’s also a sign of obedience. Babies don’t know what obedience is.

Thanks for enlightening me on this

Who knew?!

 

[forkintheroad7]

Baptism is the Sacrament of initiation into the Body of Christ. It is a statement that the parents and family are not going to raise their child in worldly ways, the way of Adam and Eve, but in the way of God as a follower and discipleship (discipline of) Christ. It is a statement that the child will be raised in obedience to the Way of Christ (I am the way the truth and the life) rather than the path of disobedience chosen by Adam and Eve.

but it is also a Sacrament, which means that it does a tangible good for the soul of the baptized whether a child or not. Children are far more open to such spiritual realities than adults anyway

 

[forkintheroad7]

I was baptized as a baby, and at a very young age (I'm speaking of toddler) understood who I was and what it meant. I would have no sooner given up my baptism than I would have given up my mom, dad, or any of my siblings. It was a part of who I was and was shaping myself to become and to be. I was determined to pursue and know God. I grew up hearing and praying, "I believe in one baptism, the forgiveness of sins..." And "accepting" Jesus as Lord and Savior would have been like saying to my parents, "I accept you as my parents, so let's go to a hospital and you can swaddle me up and drive me home so I have a memory of this happening." For me, it was a matter of always believing these were my parents and always believing in God and Christ as Lord and Savior of all.

This being said, I have also met people first baptized as an adult, or baptized again as an adult, and that means as much to them as being baptized as an infant means to me. I get it. And the great thing about baptism whenever it is done, it brings not only rejoicing but continual joy which came to me at a very young age--for which I credit my baptism.

maybe I am wrong to do this but I kind of look at Confirmation as a re-baptizing event even though the Church would frown on that description. But in any case, that is the event when a child makes a conscious decision to follow Christ, a choice involving the will. My own Confirmation wasn't that memorable and I don't recall anyone specifically asking me or anyone being confirmed if I have given my heart and my life to Jesus. I think someone should have... But a sacrament accomplishes its goal even when things like that don't happen... something non Catholics don't understand

 

[forkintheroad7]

The truth is we are not responsible for the sins and transgressions of our father all the way back to Adam.

That is absolutely NOT true. Humans FELL when they disobeyed and they fall every time they do so personally also... so we are a MESS.

Baptism cleanses us of original sin. When a person gets into a car wreck and is seriously injured, has to go to the hospital, etc... it takes a lot to get that person... say, out of a body cast and at least somewhat back to what the person once was, health-wise. It is the same with this original sin that screwed us up... It is worse than people realize... and even after baptism, obviously, we have this bent to sin... All we need to prove that is to look around at all the sin and its horrible consequences, seen all around us

 

[dudmuck]

That is absolutely NOT true. Humans FELL when they disobeyed and they fall every time they do so personally also... so we are a MESS.

Baptism cleanses us of original sin. When a person gets into a car wreck and is seriously injured, has to go to the hospital, etc... it takes a lot to get that person... say, out of a body cast and at least somewhat back to what the person once was, health-wise. It is the same with this original sin that screwed us up... It is worse than people realize... and even after baptism, obviously, we have this bent to sin... All we need to prove that is to look around at all the sin and its horrible consequences, seen all around us

according to this, it would seem infant baptism wasnt a thing prior to approx AD150-200. Problems with the logic?