CDZ Zuckerberg Calls for a Universal Basic Income

[JimBowie1958]

This idea is gaining steam from people familiar with the coming Robotics Revolution.

For the sake of social stability we need to implement a UBI.

Mark Zuckerberg joins Silicon Valley bigwigs in calling for government to give everybody free money

"Every generation expands its definition of equality. Now it's time for our generation to define a new social contract," Zuckerberg said during his speech. "We should have a society that measures progress not by economic metrics like GDP but by how many of us have a role we find meaningful. We should explore ideas like universal basic income to make sure everyone has a cushion to try new ideas."


Zuckerberg said that, because he knew he had a safety net if projects like Facebook had failed, he was confident enough to continue on without fear of failing. Others, he said, such as children who need to support households instead of poking away on computers learning how to code, don't have the foundation Zuckerberg had. Universal basic income would provide that sort of cushion, Zuckerberg argued.​

 

[JimBowie1958]

Some good links on the issue.

A Guaranteed Income for Every American

http://www.modernmoneynetwork.org/sites/default/files/biblio/arguing_for_basic_income.pdf

A world without work is coming – it could be utopia or it could be hell | Ryan Avent

 

[RodISHI]

That may work out for some but not for all. People do not tend to have respect for what they did not work for. We have become a throw away society. Abortion is a good example of how some people think that even life its self of another living being is fully expendable without regard to what that life may contribute to society as a whole if allowed to grow. Perhaps they may want to start programs on how to teach your children respect first and go from there. Their attempt at forcing everyone to accept everyone and their brothers ideology of being acceptable to whatever isn't working out very well thus far.

 

[mudwhistle]

Zuckerberg has a good idea.

Let's just get rid of money and make everything free.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Zuckerberg has a good idea.

Let's just get rid of money and make everything free.

We cant get rid of money, silly, how else would the government tax us?

 

[Spare_change]

This idea is gaining steam from people familiar with the coming Robotics Revolution.

For the sake of social stability we need to implement a UBI.

Mark Zuckerberg joins Silicon Valley bigwigs in calling for government to give everybody free money

"Every generation expands its definition of equality. Now it's time for our generation to define a new social contract," Zuckerberg said during his speech. "We should have a society that measures progress not by economic metrics like GDP but by how many of us have a role we find meaningful. We should explore ideas like universal basic income to make sure everyone has a cushion to try new ideas."


Zuckerberg said that, because he knew he had a safety net if projects like Facebook had failed, he was confident enough to continue on without fear of failing. Others, he said, such as children who need to support households instead of poking away on computers learning how to code, don't have the foundation Zuckerberg had. Universal basic income would provide that sort of cushion, Zuckerberg argued.​

Ridiculous.

 

[Picaro]

Not a new idea. First time I heard about something like this was when Milton Freedman came up with it; a bill was proposed to implement a plan like this in the late 1960's and early 1970's, with his support, but got tabled in committee by Scoop Jackson. The monetarists should like it, since it keeps cash recirculating around the domestic economy instead of going straight to the top .1% and just sitting there.

Friedman's last estimate of the basic income needed was around $40,000 a year per adult person, basically just shy of minimum wage adjusted for inflation as it stood in about 2008. All the other bureaucracies involved in welfare and the like would disappear , at least theoretically. Many people would still work anyway, they just won't have to put up with assholes who think their employees are their personal slaves 24/7 any more, and many could get out of the cities and live in smaller, better places. This later is a real threat to the race baiters like Sharpton and most Democrats, though, as half the "Hoods empty out and disperse, so don't expect the DNC to ever get behind it unless some scheme to keep ghettoes simmering cesspools is included. It would also require much stricter immigration and criminal illegal alien controls or it will collapse in a very short time just like every other social safety net and public school systems have. Limiting it to those who can show 4 or 5 previous generations of living here is also desirable.

 

[Spare_change]

Not a new idea. First time I heard about something like this was when Milton Freedman came up with it; a bill was proposed to implement a plan like this in the late 1960's and early 1970's, with his support, but got tabled in committee by Scoop Jackson. The monetarists should like it, since it keeps cash recirculating around the domestic economy instead of going straight to the top .1% and just sitting there.

Friedman's last estimate of the basic income needed was around $40,000 a year per adult person, basically just shy of minimum wage adjusted for inflation as it stood in about 2008. All the other bureaucracies involved in welfare and the like would disappear , at least theoretically. Many people would still work anyway, they just won't have to put up with assholes who think their employees are their personal slaves 24/7 any more, and many could get out of the cities and live in smaller, better places. This later is a real threat to the race baiters like Sharpton and most Democrats, though, as half the "Hoods empty out and disperse, so don't expect the DNC to ever get behind it unless some scheme to keep ghettoes simmering cesspools is included. It would also require much stricter immigration and criminal illegal alien controls or it will collapse in a very short time just like every other social safety net and public school systems have. Limiting it to those who can show 4 or 5 previous generations of living here is also desirable.

You don't SERIOUSLY believe all that, do you?

 

[Picaro]

Not a new idea. First time I heard about something like this was when Milton Freedman came up with it; a bill was proposed to implement a plan like this in the late 1960's and early 1970's, with his support, but got tabled in committee by Scoop Jackson. The monetarists should like it, since it keeps cash recirculating around the domestic economy instead of going straight to the top .1% and just sitting there.

Friedman's last estimate of the basic income needed was around $40,000 a year per adult person, basically just shy of minimum wage adjusted for inflation as it stood in about 2008. All the other bureaucracies involved in welfare and the like would disappear , at least theoretically. Many people would still work anyway, they just won't have to put up with assholes who think their employees are their personal slaves 24/7 any more, and many could get out of the cities and live in smaller, better places. This later is a real threat to the race baiters like Sharpton and most Democrats, though, as half the "Hoods empty out and disperse, so don't expect the DNC to ever get behind it unless some scheme to keep ghettoes simmering cesspools is included. It would also require much stricter immigration and criminal illegal alien controls or it will collapse in a very short time just like every other social safety net and public school systems have. Limiting it to those who can show 4 or 5 previous generations of living here is also desirable.

You don't SERIOUSLY believe all that, do you?

Believe all of what? The history is accurate, so is the commentary. I prefer different schemes, but this is a thread about minimum incomes, and so that's what I'm discussing.

 

[SYTFE]

Good thread topic.

I've mentioned my thoughts on this forum before that technology is the coldest double edged sword we've ever had in human history, and combined with a capitalist system, a society where jobs are no longer relevant is the inevitable conclusion.

Greed combined with technological savvy is what is driving us towards this conclusion. Guys like Zuckerberg are among the biggest contributors. I could rant for hours about Facebook, but I'll reserve my thoughts on that platform for another thread. Most so-called "disruptive" businesses are leading us to this end. If someone can figure out a way that beat the traditional way on price and convenience and make it all easy to do online or on a smartphone, they'll likely be successful...but this success will come at a long term price.

Even more disturbing is that we've all become willing participants in our own job destruction. Every time we decide to "stream" an album we never purchased from our favorite band, we're helping to put the final nails in the coffin of the music industry. Every time we buy from Amazon, we're helping to kill jobs at Sears. Every time we order from Blue Apron, we slowly kill jobs at grocery stores.

We're also becoming more and more reliant on apps and technology to do the thinking for us. Remember when we used maps to find the location we wanted to drive to? Now all we have to do is use the wayz app and let our smart phones do the work. Up next will be self driving cars, we'll no longer have to think at all when driving. Oh, and when that happens -- all driving jobs will be gone as well, including all those Uber drivers who are unknowingly working for a company who will ultimately eliminate their own jobs when even those are no longer needed.

Another way of looking at this is to realize that a lot of new businesses are exploiting our own inherent tendencies to not think about consequences, and to make a huge appeal to our greed (to save money) and sloth (to make things super convenient.) As long as we're all asleep at the wheel, we become vulnerable to exploitation and we enrich those who are capitalizing on us, and we put our own future at risk for our children and grandchildren. When I think about the future, I'm fucking terrified.

 

[Defiant1]

Good thread topic.

I've mentioned my thoughts on this forum before that technology is the coldest double edged sword we've ever had in human history, and combined with a capitalist system, a society where jobs are no longer relevant is the inevitable conclusion.

Greed combined with technological savvy is what is driving us towards this conclusion. Guys like Zuckerberg are among the biggest contributors. I could rant for hours about Facebook, but I'll reserve my thoughts on that platform for another thread. Most so-called "disruptive" businesses are leading us to this end. If someone can figure out a way that beat the traditional way on price and convenience and make it all easy to do online or on a smartphone, they'll likely be successful...but this success will come at a long term price.

Even more disturbing is that we've all become willing participants in our own job destruction. Every time we decide to "stream" an album we never purchased from our favorite band, we're helping to put the final nails in the coffin of the music industry. Every time we buy from Amazon, we're helping to kill jobs at Sears. Every time we order from Blue Apron, we slowly kill jobs at grocery stores.

We're also becoming more and more reliant on apps and technology to do the thinking for us. Remember when we used maps to find the location we wanted to drive to? Now all we have to do is use the wayz app and let our smart phones do the work. Up next will be self driving cars, we'll no longer have to think at all when driving. Oh, and when that happens -- all driving jobs will be gone as well, including all those Uber drivers who are unknowingly working for a company who will ultimately eliminate their own jobs when even those are no longer needed.

Another way of looking at this is to realize that a lot of new businesses are exploiting our own inherent tendencies to not think about consequences, and to make a huge appeal to our greed (to save money) and sloth (to make things super convenient.) As long as we're all asleep at the wheel, we become vulnerable to exploitation and we enrich those who are capitalizing on us, and we put our own future at risk for our children and grandchildren. When I think about the future, I'm fucking terrified.

Would the world come to an end if musicians had to get real jobs?

 

[SYTFE]

Good thread topic.

I've mentioned my thoughts on this forum before that technology is the coldest double edged sword we've ever had in human history, and combined with a capitalist system, a society where jobs are no longer relevant is the inevitable conclusion.

Greed combined with technological savvy is what is driving us towards this conclusion. Guys like Zuckerberg are among the biggest contributors. I could rant for hours about Facebook, but I'll reserve my thoughts on that platform for another thread. Most so-called "disruptive" businesses are leading us to this end. If someone can figure out a way that beat the traditional way on price and convenience and make it all easy to do online or on a smartphone, they'll likely be successful...but this success will come at a long term price.

Even more disturbing is that we've all become willing participants in our own job destruction. Every time we decide to "stream" an album we never purchased from our favorite band, we're helping to put the final nails in the coffin of the music industry. Every time we buy from Amazon, we're helping to kill jobs at Sears. Every time we order from Blue Apron, we slowly kill jobs at grocery stores.

We're also becoming more and more reliant on apps and technology to do the thinking for us. Remember when we used maps to find the location we wanted to drive to? Now all we have to do is use the wayz app and let our smart phones do the work. Up next will be self driving cars, we'll no longer have to think at all when driving. Oh, and when that happens -- all driving jobs will be gone as well, including all those Uber drivers who are unknowingly working for a company who will ultimately eliminate their own jobs when even those are no longer needed.

Another way of looking at this is to realize that a lot of new businesses are exploiting our own inherent tendencies to not think about consequences, and to make a huge appeal to our greed (to save money) and sloth (to make things super convenient.) As long as we're all asleep at the wheel, we become vulnerable to exploitation and we enrich those who are capitalizing on us, and we put our own future at risk for our children and grandchildren. When I think about the future, I'm fucking terrified.

Would the world come to an end if musicians had to get real jobs?

It just might! Imagine a world without music...

 

[Defiant1]

Good thread topic.

I've mentioned my thoughts on this forum before that technology is the coldest double edged sword we've ever had in human history, and combined with a capitalist system, a society where jobs are no longer relevant is the inevitable conclusion.

Greed combined with technological savvy is what is driving us towards this conclusion. Guys like Zuckerberg are among the biggest contributors. I could rant for hours about Facebook, but I'll reserve my thoughts on that platform for another thread. Most so-called "disruptive" businesses are leading us to this end. If someone can figure out a way that beat the traditional way on price and convenience and make it all easy to do online or on a smartphone, they'll likely be successful...but this success will come at a long term price.

Even more disturbing is that we've all become willing participants in our own job destruction. Every time we decide to "stream" an album we never purchased from our favorite band, we're helping to put the final nails in the coffin of the music industry. Every time we buy from Amazon, we're helping to kill jobs at Sears. Every time we order from Blue Apron, we slowly kill jobs at grocery stores.

We're also becoming more and more reliant on apps and technology to do the thinking for us. Remember when we used maps to find the location we wanted to drive to? Now all we have to do is use the wayz app and let our smart phones do the work. Up next will be self driving cars, we'll no longer have to think at all when driving. Oh, and when that happens -- all driving jobs will be gone as well, including all those Uber drivers who are unknowingly working for a company who will ultimately eliminate their own jobs when even those are no longer needed.

Another way of looking at this is to realize that a lot of new businesses are exploiting our own inherent tendencies to not think about consequences, and to make a huge appeal to our greed (to save money) and sloth (to make things super convenient.) As long as we're all asleep at the wheel, we become vulnerable to exploitation and we enrich those who are capitalizing on us, and we put our own future at risk for our children and grandchildren. When I think about the future, I'm fucking terrified.

Would the world come to an end if musicians had to get real jobs?

It just might! Imagine a world without music...

I'll still be able to play and I'll still be able to sing.

 

[edthecynic]

R Buckminster Fuller said in "I seem To Be A Verb" that man is basically a creative and inventive creature and most men would never do nothing. He said, if a man wants to go fishing, let him go fishing, you never know he might find a better way to fish.

He then cited a newspaper article where a man liked to sit on his porch at night and look at the stars with nothing more than a pair of binoculars, and ended up finding a star that all the astronomers with all their telescopes missed. The star was named after him.

 

[Anathema]

For me this is the Ultimate argument on ehy we need to look at the Moral implications of technology even moreso than the technological implications.

I have no use for a UBI. I have no use for anyone who would take a UBI. I hate my job. Id love to not have to go there every day, but I know it is my obligation.... moral snd financial to go there and earn a,living fir myself and my fsmily.

 

[Spare_change]

Not a new idea. First time I heard about something like this was when Milton Freedman came up with it; a bill was proposed to implement a plan like this in the late 1960's and early 1970's, with his support, but got tabled in committee by Scoop Jackson. The monetarists should like it, since it keeps cash recirculating around the domestic economy instead of going straight to the top .1% and just sitting there.

Friedman's last estimate of the basic income needed was around $40,000 a year per adult person, basically just shy of minimum wage adjusted for inflation as it stood in about 2008. All the other bureaucracies involved in welfare and the like would disappear , at least theoretically. Many people would still work anyway, they just won't have to put up with assholes who think their employees are their personal slaves 24/7 any more, and many could get out of the cities and live in smaller, better places. This later is a real threat to the race baiters like Sharpton and most Democrats, though, as half the "Hoods empty out and disperse, so don't expect the DNC to ever get behind it unless some scheme to keep ghettoes simmering cesspools is included. It would also require much stricter immigration and criminal illegal alien controls or it will collapse in a very short time just like every other social safety net and public school systems have. Limiting it to those who can show 4 or 5 previous generations of living here is also desirable.

You don't SERIOUSLY believe all that, do you?

Believe all of what? The history is accurate, so is the commentary. I prefer different schemes, but this is a thread about minimum incomes, and so that's what I'm discussing.

You have attempted to provide "credibility" for a universal basic income. My question was simply .... you aren't serious, right? You just wanted to give us a history lesson, right? I mean .. your point is well taken ... people do incredibly stupid stuff over and over again.

So ... what is your opinion of the sociological impacts of such an approach?

 

[Spare_change]

Good thread topic.

I've mentioned my thoughts on this forum before that technology is the coldest double edged sword we've ever had in human history, and combined with a capitalist system, a society where jobs are no longer relevant is the inevitable conclusion.

Greed combined with technological savvy is what is driving us towards this conclusion. Guys like Zuckerberg are among the biggest contributors. I could rant for hours about Facebook, but I'll reserve my thoughts on that platform for another thread. Most so-called "disruptive" businesses are leading us to this end. If someone can figure out a way that beat the traditional way on price and convenience and make it all easy to do online or on a smartphone, they'll likely be successful...but this success will come at a long term price.

Even more disturbing is that we've all become willing participants in our own job destruction. Every time we decide to "stream" an album we never purchased from our favorite band, we're helping to put the final nails in the coffin of the music industry. Every time we buy from Amazon, we're helping to kill jobs at Sears. Every time we order from Blue Apron, we slowly kill jobs at grocery stores.

We're also becoming more and more reliant on apps and technology to do the thinking for us. Remember when we used maps to find the location we wanted to drive to? Now all we have to do is use the wayz app and let our smart phones do the work. Up next will be self driving cars, we'll no longer have to think at all when driving. Oh, and when that happens -- all driving jobs will be gone as well, including all those Uber drivers who are unknowingly working for a company who will ultimately eliminate their own jobs when even those are no longer needed.

Another way of looking at this is to realize that a lot of new businesses are exploiting our own inherent tendencies to not think about consequences, and to make a huge appeal to our greed (to save money) and sloth (to make things super convenient.) As long as we're all asleep at the wheel, we become vulnerable to exploitation and we enrich those who are capitalizing on us, and we put our own future at risk for our children and grandchildren. When I think about the future, I'm fucking terrified.

Always the victim ....

Does it make you feel comfortable to wrap yourself in your play for pity?

 

[SYTFE]

Good thread topic.

I've mentioned my thoughts on this forum before that technology is the coldest double edged sword we've ever had in human history, and combined with a capitalist system, a society where jobs are no longer relevant is the inevitable conclusion.

Greed combined with technological savvy is what is driving us towards this conclusion. Guys like Zuckerberg are among the biggest contributors. I could rant for hours about Facebook, but I'll reserve my thoughts on that platform for another thread. Most so-called "disruptive" businesses are leading us to this end. If someone can figure out a way that beat the traditional way on price and convenience and make it all easy to do online or on a smartphone, they'll likely be successful...but this success will come at a long term price.

Even more disturbing is that we've all become willing participants in our own job destruction. Every time we decide to "stream" an album we never purchased from our favorite band, we're helping to put the final nails in the coffin of the music industry. Every time we buy from Amazon, we're helping to kill jobs at Sears. Every time we order from Blue Apron, we slowly kill jobs at grocery stores.

We're also becoming more and more reliant on apps and technology to do the thinking for us. Remember when we used maps to find the location we wanted to drive to? Now all we have to do is use the wayz app and let our smart phones do the work. Up next will be self driving cars, we'll no longer have to think at all when driving. Oh, and when that happens -- all driving jobs will be gone as well, including all those Uber drivers who are unknowingly working for a company who will ultimately eliminate their own jobs when even those are no longer needed.

Another way of looking at this is to realize that a lot of new businesses are exploiting our own inherent tendencies to not think about consequences, and to make a huge appeal to our greed (to save money) and sloth (to make things super convenient.) As long as we're all asleep at the wheel, we become vulnerable to exploitation and we enrich those who are capitalizing on us, and we put our own future at risk for our children and grandchildren. When I think about the future, I'm fucking terrified.

Always the victim ....

Does it make you feel comfortable to wrap yourself in your play for pity?

Huh? Dude, I make my living online. I am super in tune to what is happening.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Huh? Dude, I make my living online. I am super in tune to what is happening.

Interesting.

So what do you do? Is it Robotable?

 

[Picaro]

It just might! Imagine a world without music...

That's easy; just put on a Beatles album or a Bob Dylan song. That will take you directly to one, without passing Go and collecting $200.