You want to "fix" healthcare?

[Remodeling Maidiac]

And the dems were so much better? Pahlezzz. My medical premiums went through the roof thanks to their help.

Rather than playing the blame game why not pool our thoughts and inform our representatives what we think & want regardless of party.

The election of Trump proves that Americans have power if they choose to exercise it.

World doesn't revolve around YOU and statistics show otherwise. Premiums and general healthcare spending growth has not gone through the roof compared to what was going on in 2000s, it was slower.

Election proves that Americans are more ignorant and desperate for that new car smell than anticipated.

Annnnnd you've gone off the rails.....

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

And the dems were so much better? Pahlezzz. My medical premiums went through the roof thanks to their help.

Rather than playing the blame game why not pool our thoughts and inform our representatives what we think & want regardless of party.

The election of Trump proves that Americans have power if they choose to exercise it.

World doesn't revolve around YOU and statistics show otherwise. Premiums and general healthcare spending growth has not gone through the roof compared to what was going on in 2000s, it was slower.

Election proves that Americans are more ignorant and desperate for that new car smell than some anticipated.

Trump has been everywhere from Single Payer to Universal Care to No Care, he is an orange buffoon without any real understanding of any issues, healthcare least of all.

My healthcare needs and expenses DO REVOLVE AROUND ME, shithead

 

[AntonToo]

And the dems were so much better? Pahlezzz. My medical premiums went through the roof thanks to their help.

Rather than playing the blame game why not pool our thoughts and inform our representatives what we think & want regardless of party.

The election of Trump proves that Americans have power if they choose to exercise it.

World doesn't revolve around YOU and statistics show otherwise. Premiums and general healthcare spending growth has not gone through the roof compared to what was going on in 2000s, it was slower.

Election proves that Americans are more ignorant and desperate for that new car smell than anticipated.

Annnnnd you've gone off the rails.....

whatever you say.

 

[AntonToo]

And the dems were so much better? Pahlezzz. My medical premiums went through the roof thanks to their help.

Rather than playing the blame game why not pool our thoughts and inform our representatives what we think & want regardless of party.

The election of Trump proves that Americans have power if they choose to exercise it.

World doesn't revolve around YOU and statistics show otherwise. Premiums and general healthcare spending growth has not gone through the roof compared to what was going on in 2000s, it was slower.

Election proves that Americans are more ignorant and desperate for that new car smell than some anticipated.

Trump has been everywhere from Single Payer to Universal Care to No Care, he is an orange buffoon without any real understanding of any issues, healthcare least of all.

My healthcare needs and expenses DO REVOLVE AROUND ME, shithead

SHITHEAD - NATIONAL POLICY DOES NOT GET CONSIDERED WITH YOU SPECIFICALLY IN MIND.

Dumb, ignorant memememememe asshole.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

And the dems were so much better? Pahlezzz. My medical premiums went through the roof thanks to their help.

Rather than playing the blame game why not pool our thoughts and inform our representatives what we think & want regardless of party.

The election of Trump proves that Americans have power if they choose to exercise it.

World doesn't revolve around YOU and statistics show otherwise. Premiums and general healthcare spending growth has not gone through the roof compared to what was going on in 2000s, it was slower.

Election proves that Americans are more ignorant and desperate for that new car smell than some anticipated.

Trump has been everywhere from Single Payer to Universal Care to No Care, he is an orange buffoon without any real understanding of any issues, healthcare least of all.

My healthcare needs and expenses DO REVOLVE AROUND ME, shithead

SHITHEAD - NATIONAL POLICY DOES NOT GET CONSIDERED WITH YOU SPECIFICALLY IN MIND.

Dumb, ignorant ****.

And that is why a NATIONAL policy is wrong.

Dumbfuck indeed. You just don't get it, like at all!
I know what the **** I need, congress doesn't.

 

[AntonToo]

And the dems were so much better? Pahlezzz. My medical premiums went through the roof thanks to their help.

Rather than playing the blame game why not pool our thoughts and inform our representatives what we think & want regardless of party.

The election of Trump proves that Americans have power if they choose to exercise it.

World doesn't revolve around YOU and statistics show otherwise. Premiums and general healthcare spending growth has not gone through the roof compared to what was going on in 2000s, it was slower.

Election proves that Americans are more ignorant and desperate for that new car smell than some anticipated.

Trump has been everywhere from Single Payer to Universal Care to No Care, he is an orange buffoon without any real understanding of any issues, healthcare least of all.

My healthcare needs and expenses DO REVOLVE AROUND ME, shithead

SHITHEAD - NATIONAL POLICY DOES NOT GET CONSIDERED WITH YOU SPECIFICALLY IN MIND.

Dumb, ignorant ****.

And that is why a NATIONAL policy is wrong.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

And the dems were so much better? Pahlezzz. My medical premiums went through the roof thanks to their help.

Rather than playing the blame game why not pool our thoughts and inform our representatives what we think & want regardless of party.

The election of Trump proves that Americans have power if they choose to exercise it.

World doesn't revolve around YOU and statistics show otherwise. Premiums and general healthcare spending growth has not gone through the roof compared to what was going on in 2000s, it was slower.

Election proves that Americans are more ignorant and desperate for that new car smell than some anticipated.

Trump has been everywhere from Single Payer to Universal Care to No Care, he is an orange buffoon without any real understanding of any issues, healthcare least of all.

My healthcare needs and expenses DO REVOLVE AROUND ME, shithead

SHITHEAD - NATIONAL POLICY DOES NOT GET CONSIDERED WITH YOU SPECIFICALLY IN MIND.

Dumb, ignorant ****.

And that is why a NATIONAL policy is wrong.

Even after I rocked you asinine post you double down?

Washington insiders do not know the healthcare needs of anyone beyond their immediate family yet your eager to let them impose their idea of what you need on you while they exempt themselves from the same damn guidelines.

Facepalm indeed

 

[AntonToo]

World doesn't revolve around YOU and statistics show otherwise. Premiums and general healthcare spending growth has not gone through the roof compared to what was going on in 2000s, it was slower.

Election proves that Americans are more ignorant and desperate for that new car smell than some anticipated.

Trump has been everywhere from Single Payer to Universal Care to No Care, he is an orange buffoon without any real understanding of any issues, healthcare least of all.

My healthcare needs and expenses DO REVOLVE AROUND ME, shithead

SHITHEAD - NATIONAL POLICY DOES NOT GET CONSIDERED WITH YOU SPECIFICALLY IN MIND.

Dumb, ignorant ****.

And that is why a NATIONAL policy is wrong.

Even after I rocked you asinine post you double down?

Washington insiders do not know the healthcare needs of anyone beyond their immediate family yet your eager to let them impose their idea of what you need on you while they exempt themselves from the same damn guidelines.

Facepalm indeed

You don't know shit beyond your short little nose, just because something happened to you doesn't mean it happened to the rest of the world.

The arrogance and self importance is astounding.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Tort reform has to be part of controlling medical costs or nothing will work.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

My healthcare needs and expenses DO REVOLVE AROUND ME, shithead

SHITHEAD - NATIONAL POLICY DOES NOT GET CONSIDERED WITH YOU SPECIFICALLY IN MIND.

Dumb, ignorant ****.

And that is why a NATIONAL policy is wrong.

Even after I rocked you asinine post you double down?

Washington insiders do not know the healthcare needs of anyone beyond their immediate family yet your eager to let them impose their idea of what you need on you while they exempt themselves from the same damn guidelines.

Facepalm indeed

You don't know shit beyond your short little nose, just because something happened to you doesn't mean it happened to the rest of the world.

The arrogance and self importance is astounding.

Look, we had a decent conversation going until you got lost in the weeds. At this point I think it's time to call it quits.

I will just end my part with this. Costs are rising and care is declining. Obamacare is not the solution. I tried to offer my 2 cents on the issue which is what you all on the left constantly demand. And what did I get for my efforts? Your insults

 

[Flopper]

Ones health care is not a widget someone is buying.... if your kid breaks his arm and leg, or is hit by a car, you don't have time to shop around for the best price...

Even in an MRI situations, it's usually an important test that is needed right away.....

Health care will not ever be a free market widget, they usually have us by the balls on what we have to pay....

I CLEARLY made an exception for emergencies. And contrary to your belief, mri's, are not usually emergency prescribed. I've had around 6 of them. None were emergency situations.

Also it's sad to see that you've given into the status quo.

look, it is a mess, and yes it would be nice to know what someone is going to charge before they service you....

but it simply does not and can not work that way with Insurance in the picture. Each insurance company negotiates on the price they will have to pay the Hospital for each procedure....they sign a contract for that price...your neighbor's insurance company may not have gotten as good a price as your insurance company, for varying reasons...they may have fewer customers in the plan with the hospitals, they may have a plan that is covering only old people who are going to use hospital services more, etc etc etc etc etc.....than the insurance plan you are on, or less....it is filled with variables.... I think I read once that Jjohn Hopkins had 125 different insurance plans with 125 different prices that they had to deal with in their billing office, costing the hospital a fortune in just clerical work keeping up with the different plans and different prices the plans would pay....

It's a royal mess, I agree, but mostly due to the free market with Insurance companies being the middle men collecting the dough for clerical processing........

You are excusing the very problem I am talking about. Insurance pools would be unnecessary if everyone had the power to barter for the same price. You are allowing the medical industry to treat you as a probable car buyer with this logic.

If insurance is not necessary, who is going to pay the medical bills. Oh, I know it's going to be cheaper because the patient who is sick with cancer is going to be spending all of their time in between radiation, chemo, and and the ER determining the lowest cost on dozens of medications, procedures, doctors, and hospitals so they can get a bargain price of only $200,000 instead of $300,000. So who the hell, is going to be able to pay that $200,000 without insurance.

IMHO, very sick people should be concentrating on getting well, selecting the best doctors, hospitals, and medications not the cheapest.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Ones health care is not a widget someone is buying.... if your kid breaks his arm and leg, or is hit by a car, you don't have time to shop around for the best price...

Even in an MRI situations, it's usually an important test that is needed right away.....

Health care will not ever be a free market widget, they usually have us by the balls on what we have to pay....

I CLEARLY made an exception for emergencies. And contrary to your belief, mri's, are not usually emergency prescribed. I've had around 6 of them. None were emergency situations.

Also it's sad to see that you've given into the status quo.

look, it is a mess, and yes it would be nice to know what someone is going to charge before they service you....

but it simply does not and can not work that way with Insurance in the picture. Each insurance company negotiates on the price they will have to pay the Hospital for each procedure....they sign a contract for that price...your neighbor's insurance company may not have gotten as good a price as your insurance company, for varying reasons...they may have fewer customers in the plan with the hospitals, they may have a plan that is covering only old people who are going to use hospital services more, etc etc etc etc etc.....than the insurance plan you are on, or less....it is filled with variables.... I think I read once that Jjohn Hopkins had 125 different insurance plans with 125 different prices that they had to deal with in their billing office, costing the hospital a fortune in just clerical work keeping up with the different plans and different prices the plans would pay....

It's a royal mess, I agree, but mostly due to the free market with Insurance companies being the middle men collecting the dough for clerical processing........

You are excusing the very problem I am talking about. Insurance pools would be unnecessary if everyone had the power to barter for the same price. You are allowing the medical industry to treat you as a probable car buyer with this logic.

If insurance is not necessary, who is going to pay the medical bills. Oh, I know it's going to be cheaper because the patient who is sick with cancer is going to be spending all of their time in between radiation, chemo, and and the emergency determining the lowest cost on dozens of medications, procedures, doctors, and hospitals so they can get a bargain price of only $200,000 instead of $300,000. So who the hell, is going to be able to pay that $200,000 without insurance.

IMHO, very sick people should be concentrating on getting well, selecting the best doctors, hospitals, and medications not the cheapest.

Strawman. I never said remove insurance.
It's nice to make up shit to then argue against but ultimately pointless

 

[AntonToo]

Tort reform has to be part of controlling medical costs or nothing will work.

Can you point to slowed medical costs in states where tort reform was passed?

ALL of medical litigation awards amount to something like 3-4 billion, even assuming 20 fold effect on healthcare spending there is just not much savings on the table.

Overall annual medical liability system costs, including defensive medicine, are estimated to be $55.6 billion in 2008 dollars, or 2.4 percent of total health care spending.

National Costs Of The Medical Liability System

That's it. That is big bad idea. If we make it illegal to sue for medical malpractice we will lower healthcare spending by around 2.4% (while leaving victims without any recourse)

 

[AntonToo]

Ones health care is not a widget someone is buying.... if your kid breaks his arm and leg, or is hit by a car, you don't have time to shop around for the best price...

Even in an MRI situations, it's usually an important test that is needed right away.....

Health care will not ever be a free market widget, they usually have us by the balls on what we have to pay....

I CLEARLY made an exception for emergencies. And contrary to your belief, mri's, are not usually emergency prescribed. I've had around 6 of them. None were emergency situations.

Also it's sad to see that you've given into the status quo.

look, it is a mess, and yes it would be nice to know what someone is going to charge before they service you....

but it simply does not and can not work that way with Insurance in the picture. Each insurance company negotiates on the price they will have to pay the Hospital for each procedure....they sign a contract for that price...your neighbor's insurance company may not have gotten as good a price as your insurance company, for varying reasons...they may have fewer customers in the plan with the hospitals, they may have a plan that is covering only old people who are going to use hospital services more, etc etc etc etc etc.....than the insurance plan you are on, or less....it is filled with variables.... I think I read once that Jjohn Hopkins had 125 different insurance plans with 125 different prices that they had to deal with in their billing office, costing the hospital a fortune in just clerical work keeping up with the different plans and different prices the plans would pay....

It's a royal mess, I agree, but mostly due to the free market with Insurance companies being the middle men collecting the dough for clerical processing........

You are excusing the very problem I am talking about. Insurance pools would be unnecessary if everyone had the power to barter for the same price. You are allowing the medical industry to treat you as a probable car buyer with this logic.

If insurance is not necessary, who is going to pay the medical bills. Oh, I know it's going to be cheaper because the patient who is sick with cancer is going to be spending all of their time in between radiation, chemo, and and the emergency determining the lowest cost on dozens of medications, procedures, doctors, and hospitals so they can get a bargain price of only $200,000 instead of $300,000. So who the hell, is going to be able to pay that $200,000 without insurance.

IMHO, very sick people should be concentrating on getting well, selecting the best doctors, hospitals, and medications not the cheapest.

Strawman. I never said remove insurance.
It's nice to make up shit to then argue against but ultimately pointless

...just insurance pools which would be unnecessary?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This thread is ultimately about controlling costs and their subsequent increases.

The cost of setting my broken toe were basically the same today as they would have been 40 years ago. Snap it back into place, brace it and give me a Tylenol on the way out.
But because of today's red tape and insurance bullshit that doctor visit of a couple hundred bucks at most cost me 2k. The splint that cost 1.20 to make cost me 70.00 bucks. And that ******* 2 cent asprin cost me 300.00. After that I paid thousands in "processing" fees that had little to do with my medical needs and everything to do with gaming the system for a profit.

 

[Care4all]

Start with pricing. Open & public pricing would create competition among healthcare providers for your dollar and your healthcare needs.

Pricing is different for most, depending on complex negotiations with payers. Therefore showing it is also very complex. Single payer doesn't have such issues - the prices are transparent and set for one payer.

That doesn't mean it can't be done, but it is a lot more involved then you might imagine and none of this necessitates repeal of Obamacare, which has other cost reducing mechanisms already in place, already reducing costs.

I just realized you made my point for me.

"Pricing is complex because of negotiations with payers" ie, insurance companies.

Give that power to the consumer. Treat medical insurance like every other kind of insurance. If my house burns down my insurer doesn't negotiate the cost of a replacement tv or refrigerator with best buy, I do. They cut a check and I get the best deal I can. I may have no out of pocket expenses or I may upgrade and add my own money to the pot.
Why allow a third party dictate what we can or can not have in regards to our very lives when we don't for the most unimportant things?

that's just not true....your car insurance is going to give you x amount for your repair, once they have examined your wrecked car, calculate the estimated cost for repairs in your area, and gives you what THEY think is fair for them...you have no idea when you are buying insurance how much they are going to give you for a wreck that didn't happen yet....

even with health insurance, you can call them and they will tell you what your insurance company will pay for an MRI they approve, and you can right now call around to different xray centers to find their prices for MRI's and go to the cheapest... but health insurers will not just send you the check amount, so you could pocket the money and not get the approved mri done at all, allowing yourself to get sicker, costing them more down the road...

our health care is not an automobile.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I CLEARLY made an exception for emergencies. And contrary to your belief, mri's, are not usually emergency prescribed. I've had around 6 of them. None were emergency situations.

Also it's sad to see that you've given into the status quo.

look, it is a mess, and yes it would be nice to know what someone is going to charge before they service you....

but it simply does not and can not work that way with Insurance in the picture. Each insurance company negotiates on the price they will have to pay the Hospital for each procedure....they sign a contract for that price...your neighbor's insurance company may not have gotten as good a price as your insurance company, for varying reasons...they may have fewer customers in the plan with the hospitals, they may have a plan that is covering only old people who are going to use hospital services more, etc etc etc etc etc.....than the insurance plan you are on, or less....it is filled with variables.... I think I read once that Jjohn Hopkins had 125 different insurance plans with 125 different prices that they had to deal with in their billing office, costing the hospital a fortune in just clerical work keeping up with the different plans and different prices the plans would pay....

It's a royal mess, I agree, but mostly due to the free market with Insurance companies being the middle men collecting the dough for clerical processing........

You are excusing the very problem I am talking about. Insurance pools would be unnecessary if everyone had the power to barter for the same price. You are allowing the medical industry to treat you as a probable car buyer with this logic.

If insurance is not necessary, who is going to pay the medical bills. Oh, I know it's going to be cheaper because the patient who is sick with cancer is going to be spending all of their time in between radiation, chemo, and and the emergency determining the lowest cost on dozens of medications, procedures, doctors, and hospitals so they can get a bargain price of only $200,000 instead of $300,000. So who the hell, is going to be able to pay that $200,000 without insurance.

IMHO, very sick people should be concentrating on getting well, selecting the best doctors, hospitals, and medications not the cheapest.

Strawman. I never said remove insurance.
It's nice to make up shit to then argue against but ultimately pointless

...just insurance pools which would be unnecessary?

Yes pools. This may come as news to you but people like me get FUCKED. I am a sole proprietor with only a few employees so my buying power for coverage is shit. The big companies get all the power to negotiate terms because of their employees base while I get lumped into higher risk pools as a "higher" risk. I pay more for the same coverage because I don't work for or run say, IBM or BestBuy

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Start with pricing. Open & public pricing would create competition among healthcare providers for your dollar and your healthcare needs.

Pricing is different for most, depending on complex negotiations with payers. Therefore showing it is also very complex. Single payer doesn't have such issues - the prices are transparent and set for one payer.

That doesn't mean it can't be done, but it is a lot more involved then you might imagine and none of this necessitates repeal of Obamacare, which has other cost reducing mechanisms already in place, already reducing costs.

I just realized you made my point for me.

"Pricing is complex because of negotiations with payers" ie, insurance companies.

Give that power to the consumer. Treat medical insurance like every other kind of insurance. If my house burns down my insurer doesn't negotiate the cost of a replacement tv or refrigerator with best buy, I do. They cut a check and I get the best deal I can. I may have no out of pocket expenses or I may upgrade and add my own money to the pot.
Why allow a third party dictate what we can or can not have in regards to our very lives when we don't for the most unimportant things?

that's just not true....your car insurance is going to give you x amount for your repair, once they have examined your wrecked car, calculate the estimated cost for repairs in your area, and gives you what THEY think is fair for them...you have no idea when you are buying insurance how much they are going to give you for a wreck that didn't happen yet....

even with health insurance, you can call them and they will tell you what your insurance company will pay for an MRI they approve, and you can right now call around to different xray centers to find their prices for MRI's and go to the cheapest... but health insurers will not just send you the check amount, so you could pocket the money and not get the approved mri done at all, allowing yourself to get sicker, costing them more down the road...

our health care is not an automobile.

False.

I determine the type of coverage and the level of coverage. I have the option to go with a company that offers new car replacement or minimum coverage. And even with minimum coverage I still have options on what level of coverage I want as long as I'm within state standards, and those are very low.

 

[Flopper]

Start with pricing. Open & public pricing would create competition among healthcare providers for your dollar and your healthcare needs.

Pricing is different for most, depending on complex negotiations with payers. Therefore showing it is also very complex. Single payer doesn't have such issues - the prices are transparent and set for one payer.

That doesn't mean it can't be done, but it is a lot more involved then you might imagine and none of this necessitates repeal of Obamacare, which has other cost reducing mechanisms already in place, already reducing costs.

I just realized you made my point for me.

"Pricing is complex because of negotiations with payers" ie, insurance companies.

Give that power to the consumer. Treat medical insurance like every other kind of insurance. If my house burns down my insurer doesn't negotiate the cost of a replacement tv or refrigerator with best buy, I do. They cut a check and I get the best deal I can. I may have no out of pocket expenses or I may upgrade and add my own money to the pot.
Why allow a third party dictate what we can or can not have in regards to our very lives when we don't for the most unimportant things?

...you negotiated TV price because you paid for it out of pocket well before emergency hit. That's not how healthcare works, the analogy is false.

There is SOME truth to your post but not every healthcare need is an emergency. I think in those cases the general idea is very much valid

According to the CDC, chronic disease accounts for approximately 75 percent of the nation's aggregate health care spending and most the cost in treating these diseases are routine not emergencies.

Emergency rooms visits are very expensive because of the amount of resources required, dozens of doctors on call, millions of dollars in medical equipment that sits hours sometimes days without being used, and large staffs of highly trained and paid personnel and of course the requirement that every patient regardless of their ability to pay will be serviced to a point that the emergency has stabilized.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Start with pricing. Open & public pricing would create competition among healthcare providers for your dollar and your healthcare needs.

Pricing is different for most, depending on complex negotiations with payers. Therefore showing it is also very complex. Single payer doesn't have such issues - the prices are transparent and set for one payer.

That doesn't mean it can't be done, but it is a lot more involved then you might imagine and none of this necessitates repeal of Obamacare, which has other cost reducing mechanisms already in place, already reducing costs.

I just realized you made my point for me.

"Pricing is complex because of negotiations with payers" ie, insurance companies.

Give that power to the consumer. Treat medical insurance like every other kind of insurance. If my house burns down my insurer doesn't negotiate the cost of a replacement tv or refrigerator with best buy, I do. They cut a check and I get the best deal I can. I may have no out of pocket expenses or I may upgrade and add my own money to the pot.
Why allow a third party dictate what we can or can not have in regards to our very lives when we don't for the most unimportant things?

...you negotiated TV price because you paid for it out of pocket well before emergency hit. That's not how healthcare works, the analogy is false.

There is SOME truth to your post but not every healthcare need is an emergency. I think in those cases the general idea is very much valid

According to the CDC, chronic disease accounts for approximately 75 percent of the nation's aggregate health care spending and most the cost in treating these diseases are routine not emergencies.

Emergency rooms visits are very expensive because of the amount of resources required, dozens of doctors on call, millions of dollars in medical equipment that sits hours sometimes days without being used, and large staffs of highly trained and paid personnel and of course the requirement that every patient regardless of their ability to pay will be serviced to a point that the emergency has stabilized.

Thank you Captain Obvious