Women, children, elderly called to battle

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Kathianne
And the UN is in the position to take moral stands? I think not.

Where is the UN when an 8 month pregnant women and her 4 daughters are mowed down by gunfire? Where are they when soldiers carrying out their duty, whether they like it or not, are shot like dogs? No where. The UN lost credibility with many prior to the oil for food scandal. They've lost more since.

I could not agree more! And now they let their ambulances be used in attacks and in helping the terrorists. Getting more frightening every day....

 

[dilloduck]

Where's the media in reporting the cover up of the oil-for-food scandal? Do the libs need an oranization to fall back on if America
fails to bring peace and love to everyone?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Where's the media in reporting the cover up of the oil-for-food scandal? Do the libs need an oranization to fall back on if America
fails to bring peace and love to everyone?

That is the whole point. The EU is a steamroller of socialism that pretty well IS the UN and is a better place to hang their hats than the US is.

Take a look. The past, present, and (if you want to consider the Bible) future all match.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by NewGuy
That is the whole point. The EU is a steamroller of socialism that pretty well IS the UN and is a better place to hang their hats than the US is.

Take a look. The past, present, and (if you want to consider the Bible) future all match.

Since the EU is more like the USA now, does that mean that France will give up their seat on the security council? If they don't, then New York, Texas or California shoud be given a permanent seat considering their economic importance in the world...

Of course, I am being somewhat facetious, but oh well, just thinking outloud....

 

[Annie]

Free and Fun, you're correct, that is how it SHOULD work out, like EU and Africa each US state should have a UN vote. As you said, that wasn't the point.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by NewGuy
There is none.

You are refering to Christ and his two prophets which will come wearing sackcloth and prophecy while shooting flame from their mouths at people who try to kill them.

-The reference you have is often from another religion with a parallel but opposite view of end times which pits Christ as an evil demon and the two prophets as bad guys.

The BIBLE is CLEAR on the prophecies presented in Revelation and Daniel as far as the 2 prophets, a revived roman empire, and the world being against Israel.

Actually, there is.


Isaiah 14 :: King James Version (KJV)


You might find this very interesting, I certainly did.


Mind you I'm not a Christian, nor are my comments more than layman interpretations, but seriously this is some freaky stuff.


And it's not just the reference to his Sons at the end, the whole passage checks out.

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin...age=english&version=KJV&showfn=on&showxref=on

Isaiah 14
1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

(Isreal re-established)

2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

(Isreal dominating over Muslim Arabs, once ruthlessly oppressive of Judaism)

3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

(Clearly referencing Jewish holocaust)

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

(Former Babylon now located today within Iraq, geographically.)

5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

(Saddam's tyranny attacked by coalition, no other helps defend against his fall)

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

(The murdered here are questioning Saddam, similar to what we shall see in the upcoming trial, a challenge of his guilt and a promise of his union with the dead via execution)

11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

(Another reference to the grave, literally his last refuge before he was captured)

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

(Certainly Saddam weakened Kuwait and Iran, although this could also very well refer to the Oil-for-food scandal inevitably weakening the United Nations.)

11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


(Consistent with Saddam’s appeal to the Islamic faith to protect and support his regime, exalting his reign over God’s will. Also as the declared champion of Palestinians, a promise to sit upon the temple Mount applies directly.)

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Having boasted of glory and victory the end, INDEED he was brought down to the sides of a pit. Literally.


16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Ring a bell? Recall his capture and the reaction from the world to it. Was this really the Saddam who terrified the world and his own people?

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

He created a world of chaos (wilderness), eradicated the populations of several Kurd cities, and opened the house of prisoners, literally. He released most of the prisoners before he fled his throne.

18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

A deposed king among stable nations, and again, LITERALLY, "But thou art cast out of thy grave."

To be cast out out of a grave here, while clearly alive in the context of the text... there is absolutely no other metaphore that applies, is there?

20 [/b]Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people[/b]: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Destruction of Arab marshes, oil fires and spills in the first Gulf war, and obvious mass murder. The seed of his regime, those to follow his rule, destroyed.

21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

(Saddam's children slaughtered for the iniquity of the Father. So that they shall not rise and rule. WOW!)


22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.


So this part is what I remembered. The remnant, his son Uday, dead. A nephew, also dead, or at least one of them…http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?msid=45842937

Well, that’s some freaky stuff, given the ink has had plenty of time to dry on this prophesy, I give it a respectfull nod.

I’m certainly not religious, but it doesn’t mean I don’t pay attention to alternative beliefs. I'm not going to dump decades of independant thought for this, certainly, but I have to admit I will be cross referencing news vs. the prophecy in the future.

 

[freeandfun1]

I'm not trying to make you become religious, as that is up to you. But once you read this, if it makes sense, don't you think it is something you should investigate more?

Just a thought.....

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
I'm not trying to make you become religious, as that is up to you. But once you read this, if it makes sense, don't you think it is something you should investigate more?

Just a thought.....

Well I have to say I'm still cynical, only because I've always imagined such revelations are essentially interpretable in thousands of ways.

I rationally know there is a tendancy for one to apply such language to apply in terms of one's own understanding of the world. That's why I ask you, seriously, what do you think.

Am I misinterpreting it? Sloppy with my interpretations?

I have to say this is as close as I've seen a religious text emulate real life. I just don't want to hype it beyond what it represents.

One thing as well... the passage itself predicts events after Isreal is re-established, but before the Second Coming, so it's relatively in the right time line.

So I have to get a second opinion. Not from a priest, but from an open mind..

 

[freeandfun1]

I have must declare (so as to be as honest as possible about this) that I was raised in a fairly Christian household. Southern Baptist at that....

Therefore, I was raised in that "fire and brimstone" kinda way. Of course, as with most young people, I rejected it and went on my merry way.

I have done a lot of very "sinful" things in my life and, for the most part, continue to do so today but just at a less frequent rate.

Now, on to what I think.....

I have gone through it all.... from finding "spirituality" to considering Buddhism, to looking at all kinds of stuff. But in recent weeks (months?) I have been drawn back to reading the Bible and once again getting acquainted with the scriptures. As of late, I have been doing a lot of reading online. I have found sites that quote the scriptures and that come up with a myriad of interpretations.

having said that, I look for the ones that make the most sense based on what is happening in the world today combined with historical references.

The biggest one that should make people perk up and listen is the fact that the scriptures predicted that Israel would be reborn. That alone should make one be curious. I, like many, ignored that for years thinking, "oh well, a bunch of Christian dudes read the scriptures and decided to establish Israel to support the Bible...." then the formation of the EU came along.... then, the first Gulf War and now this Gulf War which will lead to the rebuilding of Babylon....

Well, now I am saying, "wait a minute, either all these white Christian dudes got together and decide to make the Bible look right, or it really is right...."

I think its right and every day I am seeing more and more of the prophecies coming to fruition. I like discussing them even with people that don't believe in them as it is just, frankly, interesting.

EDIT: One last point - even though many of the site I look at have a myriad of interpretations, for the most part, they all come to the same conclusions. The biggest debate seems to be on when the rapture will occur. Will it be before the destruction of Damascus or before? Will it be before the 7 year treaty is signed or after, etc.

I think it is after the destruction of Damascus but before Russia's attack on Israel.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
I have must declare (so as to be as honest as possible about this) that I was raised in a fairly Christian household. Southern Baptist at that....

Therefore, I was raised in that "fire and brimstone" kinda way. Of course, as with most young people, I rejected it and went on my merry way.7

I have done a lot of very "sinful" things in my life and, for the most part, continue to do so today but just at a less frequent rate.

Now, on to what I think.....

I have gone through it all.... from finding "spirituality" to considering Buddhism, to looking at all kinds of stuff. But in recent weeks (months?) I have been drawn back to reading the Bible and once again getting acquainted with the scriptures. As of late, I have been doing a lot of reading online. I have found sites that quote the scriptures and that come up with a myriad of interpretations.

Exactly what I probably would do, had I been raised religious. You are obviously thinking for yourself. Also you actually have insight I lack on religion. Cool!

having said that, I look for the ones that make the most sense based on what is happening in the world today combined with historical references.

The biggest one that should make people perk up and listen is the fact that the scriptures predicted that Israel would be reborn. That alone should make one be curious. I, like many, ignored that for years thinking, "oh well, a bunch of Christian dudes read the scriptures and decided to establish Israel to support the Bible...." then the formation of the EU came along.... then, the first Gulf War and now this Gulf War which will lead to the rebuilding of Babylon....

The E.U. in the prophecy, do you remember where? I'd like to look that up!

Well, now I am saying, "wait a minute, either all these white Christian dudes got together and decide to make the Bible look right, or it really is right...."

And like you the idea of self-fullfilling prophecy re:Isreal seems to nag at my mind, hehe.

I think its right and every day I am seeing more and more of the prophecies coming to fruition. I like discussing them even with people that don't believe in them as it is just, frankly, interesting.

I do too... like I said I'm not even religious but it's just very interesting to see how closely I can tie these verses to current events. I'm actually hoping someone will come along and set me straight, if I'm just making this last relationship up. It's just so damn convincing w/o a devils advocate to slap me across the face.

EDIT: One last point - even though many of the site I look at have a myriad of interpretations, for the most part, they all come to the same conclusions. The biggest debate seems to be on when the rapture will occur. Will it be before the destruction of Damascus or before? Will it be before the 7 year treaty is signed or after, etc.

I think it is after the destruction of Damascus but before Russia's attack on Israel.

Definately interested, can you link me to something on this? Maybe we should move to a new thead if you think we're hogging this one. Then again nobody seems to care to post anything on-topic here anyway.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Comrade
The E.U. in the prophecy, do you remember where? I'd like to look that up!

In Revelations, Chapter 17, the Bible speaks of the seven-headed dragon, with 10 horns and 10 crowns as follows:

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

There are many interpretations of this but they all generally fall pretty close together.

Many say the seven mountains or hills represent Rome and more specifically, the Vatican. Rome was universally recognized to have been built on the seven hills of Romulus. Rome is the city which rules over all the world (Rev 17:18).

The seven heads are said to be the kings of Rome, the Caesars who ruled Rome in John's day until the fall of the Empire. (these are the powers that were "restraining" which Paul refers to in 2 Thes 2). The meaning of the apocalyptic phrase "5 have fallen, one is, and the other is yet to come" is the symbolic way to express the fact that in John's day, the reign of the Caesars is about to end, but there are still more Caesars to come in the future before they are "taken out of the way" (2 Thes 2:7)

One variation is that the "Beast" is a re-born 8th incarnation of the Roman Empire or, the EU. (Yesterday NG posted an article on how the EU is considering signing their new constitution in Rome).

The 10 horns some say represent the 10 militaries of the 10 the ten nations of the Western European Alliance that have a separate status as full members of the EU and the 10 crowns, the leaders of those countries. But there are differing opinions on this. . . .

This has been an interesting SITE even though I haven't been able to go thru' it all yet.....

The referenced link covers the part of the Bible that talks about Gog and Magog. Just about every historian recognizes that Magog most likely refers to Russia. Now, the weird part is Gog. There is a lot of debate on this. Some think that Gog actually refers to a "demon" or a fallen Angel. There are sites that refer to the book of Enoch that talks about the Sethites. It starts getting pretty weird here, but not unbelievable frankly.

The site also talks about Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc.

And like you the idea of self-fulfilling prophecy re: Israel seems to nag at my mind, hehe.

Israel should be the most undisputable of the prophecies so far. It does exist as it was said it would.....

I do too... like I said I'm not even religious but it's just very interesting to see how closely I can tie these verses to current events. I'm actually hoping someone will come along and set me straight, if I'm just making this last relationship up. It's just so damn convincing w/o a devils advocate to slap me across the face.

Perhaps it is so damn convincing because it is true. I too was hoping to be shown how I am being "lured" into believing something that isn't so, but the more I read, the more I see. I was not all that religious myself just a few short months ago, but I can feel myself changing daily as I understand more and more and as I see more of the prophecies either being fulfilled or being close to being fulfilled.

Definitely interested, can you link me to something on this? Maybe we should move to a new thread if you think we're hogging this one. Then again nobody seems to care to post anything on-topic here anyway.

Start out HERE but also cruise around a lot. You are going to see a lot of different stuff said on a lot of different sites. Just try to figure out on your own what they mean.

A little warning to you and anybody else that reads this post:

If you are Catholic, you will most likely get offended by much of what you see. It is pretty much a consensus among those trying to interpret the prophecies that the Catholic Church will play a major role and not a good one.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Comrade
Well I have to say I'm still cynical, only because I've always imagined such revelations are essentially interpretable in thousands of ways.

I rationally know there is a tendancy for one to apply such language to apply in terms of one's own understanding of the world. That's why I ask you, seriously, what do you think.

Am I misinterpreting it? Sloppy with my interpretations?

Innocently enough, yes. Here is why:

Isaiah 14 is about the 2nd coming of Christ. Several things have to happen.

-You have to have the seals opened first: (pestillence and other ugly things pouring God's wrath upon the people). You have to have an anti-christ who places his mark upon the people. This is in Revelation talking about a beast and a woman riding. The woman riding is the religion steering the antichrist (who is the beast himself). The woman wears a crown which reads "mystery, Babylon". Babylon has a couple references in the Bible including ROME. Therefore, ROME is to be understood as ROMAN CATHOLOCISM the woman rules with. -IE Roman catholocism is the authority the religion steering the antichrist uses.

As such, you have then Babylon in this text being refered to as the belief system behined the antichrist movement. The antichrist will be infused with satan as dictated in prophecy as well.

Lets look at references in Isaiah:
" 4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

(Former Babylon now located today within Iraq, geographically.)"

This is what MANY people try to use to say America is the antichrist which goes contrary to scripture since the anti-christ is CLEARLY a man. They do this because there are too many people who believe roman catholocism to be pure and good. -It ISNT Christianity, though. In fact, it is drunk with its own riches and political power through "fornication" with world leaders and, quite recently, the people as well. THIS IS SCRIPTURE. Again, Babylon is refered to in revelation clearly with the woman riding the beast as roman catholocism.

"5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

(Saddam's tyranny attacked by coalition, no other helps defend against his fall)"

Incorrect: The antichrist ruled ALL nations world wide. They ALL submit to him. He breaks the treaty with Israel after a 3 1/2 year span after making the deal for 7 originally. He gets angry with the Jews and hunts them down in a way that makes the holocaust look like hide and seek. This after going after Christians. This ruler after breaking the treaty is angry at other nations that start to rebel, and he rules out of anger. Christ comes and defeats him. -Again, revelation shows this.

"7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

(The murdered here are questioning Saddam, similar to what we shall see in the upcoming trial, a challenge of his guilt and a promise of his union with the dead via execution)"

This is a fantastic reference to the antichrist being overthrown. It refers to the dead rising, (as indicated elsewhere in prophecy) just prior to Christs return which SIGNALS His return. Christ second coming has Him wearing the words "king of kings" and "lord of lords". Christ shall kill the antichrist so easilly after the antichrist has proven through miracles and world conquering to be so great. The people will realize he was only human. -Again, revelation for reference.

"11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

(Another reference to the grave, literally his last refuge before he was captured)

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

(Certainly Saddam weakened Kuwait and Iran, although this could also very well refer to the Oil-for-food scandal inevitably weakening the United Nations.)"

Totally wrong and grasping at straws. Revelation is shown in multiple ways through multiple prophets in the Bible to give a perspective from a layman, a Jew, and a Gentile and other viewpoints so that all will understand the important 2nd coming. Christ wants us all to know Him, not focus on world events. This twisting shows that His word is being turned into blasphemy. All end times scripture can be verified against its other references in the Bible.

Verse 11 shows the antichrist is merely human after his egotistical attempt (and the world's) to replace God with man for the hope of salvation.

Verse 12 is self explainitory--satan loses. He has finally been defeated and the antichrist, which he has inhabited spiritually, is no more.

Again, see revelation.

" 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:


(Consistent with Saddam’s appeal to the Islamic faith to protect and support his regime, exalting his reign over God’s will. Also as the declared champion of Palestinians, a promise to sit upon the temple Mount applies directly.)"

-NO. Again, revelation states that the antichrist desecrates the temple and decides to claim himself mankind's savior.

"14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Having boasted of glory and victory the end, INDEED he was brought down to the sides of a pit. Literally."

Again, wrong. Revelation dictates the antichrist WILL BE BROUGHT DOWN TO THE PIT. -IE: He will burn in the "lake of fire" with satan.

"16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Ring a bell? Recall his capture and the reaction from the world to it. Was this really the Saddam who terrified the world and his own people?"

NOPE. We just covered this.

"17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

He created a world of chaos (wilderness), eradicated the populations of several Kurd cities, and opened the house of prisoners, literally. He released most of the prisoners before he fled his throne.

18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet."

A deposed king among stable nations, and again, LITERALLY, "But thou art cast out of thy grave."

To be cast out out of a grave here, while clearly alive in the context of the text... there is absolutely no other metaphore that applies, is there?"

WRONG AGAIN. Cast out of the grave means that death will not be applied here. The antichrist and satan, as dictated in revelation will be cast into the lake of fire and not killed. They will burn for eternity.

"20 [/b]Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people[/b]: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Destruction of Arab marshes, oil fires and spills in the first Gulf war, and obvious mass murder. The seed of his regime, those to follow his rule, destroyed.

21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

(Saddam's children slaughtered for the iniquity of the Father. So that they shall not rise and rule. WOW!)"

NO. Revelation calls this the destruction of the antichrist and all who support him.

" 22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
"
Glory to God in the HIGHEST.

There is only one "unpardonable sin" in the Bible. -It is the rejection of Christ in your heart. For that, there can be no salvation. According to revelation, all who take the mark of the beast (antichrist), will choose him over Chirst as savior once and for all. The only way for God's eternal justice to BE justice, is to deny those people His salvation. -The people get what they want. It is always a choice.

They will not be allowed the Father, Son, or the Holy Spirit to reside with them forever like the Christians (believers) get.

This is about the whole point of the Bible....redemption of man. -Not a great story about nations warring.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I have to say this is as close as I've seen a religious text emulate real life. I just don't want to hype it beyond what it represents."

Then hype Christ. No man may know the future. This proves the Bible devine, and Christ what He claims to be. The Bible says every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that He is Lord. -But not all will accept it, and therefore not all will be saved.

Accept Him into your heart.

"One thing as well... the passage itself predicts events after Isreal is re-established, but before the Second Coming, so it's relatively in the right time line."

No. It is only stating this before the second coming because it has been left on its own without cross checking with other passages fortelling the same event. In other words, it is taken out of context and used in an incorrect fashion. The timeline IS fairly accurate, however, from a thousand year view. We are IN end times. In no other time in history has there been a revived roman empire capable of world domination and a leader capable of using a mark on foreheads and hands to be necessary to buy or sell worldwide.

"So I have to get a second opinion. Not from a priest, but from an open mind.."

I can easier break this down, but this may already be overwhelming. Chirst says as believers, Christians are all priests, and He is the HIGH priest. Believers have Christ in their lives and have an active relationship with Him, not just a fuzzy feel good kind of notion. Open minds often do not have that and do not understand what is Biblical because they too run from the overwhlming implication of man requiring God, yet having no price to pay for salvation.

We need to merely accept His incredible gift of grace through faith.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
I have must declare (so as to be as honest as possible about this) that I was raised in a fairly Christian household. Southern Baptist at that....

Therefore, I was raised in that "fire and brimstone" kinda way. Of course, as with most young people, I rejected it and went on my merry way.

I have done a lot of very "sinful" things in my life and, for the most part, continue to do so today but just at a less frequent rate.

I was not rasied with anything and was a die hard evolutionist.

A great book called "Evidence that Demands A Verdict" showed me that I was now facing historical scientific evidence showing the Bible to be an irrent book of prophecy. I had to determine real fast which was right.

I am a heavy duty thinker and a PROVE IT kind of guy, so I had to be able to prove I had the RIGHT "religion". I could not beat the logic. -And dang it, I TRIED. HARD.

In fact it hurts to think about how wrong I was.

Prophecy is the key. No other book on the planet can predict the future. No man can either. The Bible DOES. Make it prove its self. Do not accept any opinion or direction otherwise. Make prophecy the key and PROVE IT. The facts are undeniable.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by NewGuy
I was not rasied with anything and was a die hard evolutionist.

A great book called "Evidence that Demands A Verdict" showed me that I was now facing historical scientific evidence showing the Bible to be an irrent book of prophecy. I had to determine real fast which was right.

I am a heavy duty thinker and a PROVE IT kind of guy, so I had to be able to prove I had the RIGHT "religion". I could not beat the logic. -And dang it, I TRIED. HARD.

In fact it hurts to think about how wrong I was.

Prophecy is the key. No other book on the planet can predict the future. No man can either. The Bible DOES. Make it prove its self. Do not accept any opinion or direction otherwise. Make prophecy the key and PROVE IT. The facts are undeniable.

Have you checked out all that bible code stuff, where they find prophetic words by skipping at regular intervals through the texts of the bible?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Have you checked out all that bible code stuff, where they find prophetic words by skipping at regular intervals through the texts of the bible?

Most of the stuff I have seen is showing how by algorithm, they can determine "hidden things".

Supposedly, the only thing prophetic that they can determine is related to present or PAST events. Anything future cannot be deemed definite as they cannot seem to perfect that.

I am left with a few conclusions:

1. Satan is referreed to in scripture as the "deciever" and "father of lies" and so forth. Should I be surprised this may be another way to detract form the validity of prophetic scripture?

2. Prophetic scripture is written in a fairly easy to understand framework. The reason people have trouble is that they do not read the Bible in context. After all, it changes tenses and goes between dreams and reality, poems and songs, and parables and historical event telling. Anyone NOT taking it in context, or trying to tear it apart will ALWAYS end up with something different. -The biggest issue, however, is not a misunderstanding, but a fear. Most people cannot understand the Bible becasue of a base desire to justify our own egos and sins so we ignore or twist scripture subconsciously in order to feel more at ease with ourselves.

Why should we rely on "codes"?

3. If the Bible is what it claims, it must be right when it says that it is the divine word of God. Codes take away from that and cause us to try to be fortune tellers instead of followers of Christ. This distraction feeds man's ego and takes our eyes off of our relationship with Christ. As such, the Bible codes are not a good thing.

In total, the "codes" really cannot surpass or even equal what one could get from just reading the Bible, so I don't give them any validity.