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bamthin
Guest
The article I quoted confirms my belief that no formidable WMD exist in Iraq. Why would the US pull out so many of the search/inspection team if they felt they were still there?
-Bam
WMD smoke and mirrors, fabricated reason for war.
- Thread starter DKSuddeth
- Start date
The article I quoted confirms my belief that no formidable WMD exist in Iraq. Why would the US pull out so many of the search/inspection team if they felt they were still there?
-Bam
I only caught the tail end of it before i went out the door, but i saw headline on Fox news saying that chemical weapons have been found in Iraq in recent days.
You say the article helps confirm your belief that no WMD's exist in Iraq. Did your support for the war effort hinge on whether Saddam had WMD? It doesn't for me. There are plenty of other reasons why Saddam should have been removed. More on this in my other thread.
You say the article helps confirm your belief that no WMD's exist in Iraq. Did your support for the war effort hinge on whether Saddam had WMD? It doesn't for me. There are plenty of other reasons why Saddam should have been removed. More on this in my other thread.
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fort_ludios
Guest
An I would add another perspective. Pretending there are WMDs without tangible proof (only assertions/opinions) doesn't mean they exist! By postulating the existence you create the perception of existence...
Another example, the false (and fabricated) story about mobile labs: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/RIT302A.html
EXERPT:
Ritter termed a "fabrication" Powell's assertion that Iraq may have 18 trucks from which it can produce biological agents such as anthrax or botulinum toxin, and noted that U.N. inspectors who followed up on such U.S. intelligence based on defectors' testimony were only able to find two trucks used for testing food.
"They had nothing to do with biological laboratories. That's what (U.N. chief inspector) Hans Blix says. He says, 'There's no mobile lab."'
"You know who came up with the idea of mobile trucks? The inspectors...We sat back one day and said, 'If we were the Iraqis, how would we hide biological production? We'd put them on trucks,"' Ritter said.
"So we designed it and we went out looking for them. But the problem is, you look for something that you have no evidence exists, but by postulating the existence you create the perception of existence. Now we look for trucks...and we don't find them," he said.
In his presentation, Powell spoke of the futility of trying to find the trucks in question among the thousands that travel Iraqi roads daily without Baghdad voluntarily surrendering the information.
Ritter, however, said Powell was merely trying to create an impression that U.N. inspections could never work.
"You can never expect the inspectors to find these 18 trucks," he said, because "these trucks don't exist."
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fort_ludios
Guest
You just cannot compare both situations. In Germany, the political context was VERY different! Maqinly, Germany invaded its neighbors, deported foreign civilians to their work camps as slaves for the corporate Nazi regime - financed by Bush GD's bank by the way, the origin of Bush's extremism as his GD was a pro-Nazi - etc... THERE WAS NO QUESTION ABOUT LIBERATING GERMANY!! *g*
At a cost: just revisit documents about the Marshall plan, it was not free at all (which is normal). So far for being Samaritan.
There are numerous sources on the Web and foreign mainstream medias (as the BBC or The Guardian, UK's main news wires). But I guess that whenever a news broadcaster criticise Bush, in your mind it is irrelevent and thus "biased liberal/lefty/communist/whatever evil"
You should not laugh about your own cognitive dissonance...
If you are insinuating they took the time to hide them, it would just be contradictory and inconsistant with Saddam's asserted will to use them against USA! More over, he would have use'em knowing US troops came in Iraq to kick his arse don't you think? But again, as for WMDs, we're into suppositions and biased interpretations land...
In which case Iraq was NOT an imminent threat and as such the UN inspectors under res. 1441 should have been left doing their job, while Bush should've concentrate his efforts and resources in deterring real terrorists instead. Remember? 9-11, OBL, Al'Qaeda? No, yes?
Maybe that's how US troops were looking for WMDs, but heck, they have no expertise of doing so as UN experienced inspectors! And btw, that's not the way you look for WMDs. Just go to the UNSCOM Web site, you'll have plenty of information about this.Originally posted by NightTrain
You want to get a couple thousand Marines and give each of them a metal detector, have them stand shoulder-to-shoulder and start marching from border to border waving their detectors??? Are you serious??
Who cares?!? A jet plane is not prohibited nor is it a WMD. Have you ever been in a desert? Winds can make the sand cover a plane quite fast and easy. I've seen the picture btw: how in the hell would you move that plane from the rocks and cliffs that surrounded it? Was this a crached plane? And why hide planes under the sand when you are invaded? Actually, WHO DID THIS IF IT WAS BURRIED ON PURPOSE? After all the deceptions Bush served us, we could easilly conclude about some phony marketing "coup"... But again, who cares? They are not prohibited. Or did you whish to point out how France, Russia, Germany sold them? That's not an issue either since USA has done the same, even Cheney between 1998 and 2000!
So what, we already knew about all this! What YOU don't seem know is:
- UN inpectors destroyed most if not all WMDs untill 1998:
http://www.un.org/Depts/unscom/Achievements/achievements.html - The mass graves you're talking about is ancient history, of which USA was aware btw at the time those massacres happened. Bush dad is 50% responsible for these graves. He pushed Shiites to rebel against Saddam and help the allies during GW1, under the promise of his support for their rebelion and efforts to change regime. But right after GW1, Bush Sr not only got all resources and weapons out of Shiites hands and just ran away, but also he gave permission to let Saddam's helicopters fly over shiites zones so he could retaliate and massacre them!! Maybe the reason was Bush didn't like the idea of having a regime change in favor of another fundamentalist shiite regime, in which case he blatantly used them and decieved them. Graves for iranian bodies? The Kurds? Biological weapons were sold by USA to Saddam in his war against Iran. Funny that at the same time USA sold weapons to Iran so as to finance a US support to other terrorists, the Contras... That's the logic of money, NOT the logic of good will. About the Kurds, USA was also aware before hand this would happen, as Saddam TOLD THEM as if asking for permission! After the evil Saddam who was Dubya's daddy's bitch at the time was chemical gassing people all over....the U.N. attempted to impose sanctions for his naughty behaviour---THE U.S. VETOed the sanctions!
Why keeping discoveries secret?? Election timing? Wouldn't you then conclude that Bush is a fraud? Anyways, WMDs or not, it is too late: Iraq presented NO imminent threat to justify such a hurry in killing innocent civilians and invading Iraq, except for oil and $$, in which case neocons at the WH is a bunch of criminal mafia-like organisation.
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fort_ludios
Guest
You are wrong. Nobody except US and UK asserted Iraq posessed WMDs. Some US media right-wing-nut gurus were twisting the worldwide perception about this issue and as such were lying.
The UN case was about suspicions of Iraq's WMD reports. Not because they were sure Saddam had some left, rather because they had incomplete reports, since Saddam destroyed WMDs without reporting the exact number to the UN inspectors (Iraq was so incompetent that they made very bad inventory reports). At first sight, Saddam was incapable of any imminent WMD lauching and did not represent an immediate threat.
Oh while at it, regarding the late discovery of shells containing mustard gas... These shells have been reported by Baghdad to the UN inspectors as missing. Maybe that's why Bush was so sure to find WMDs!
http://www.un.org/Depts/unscom/sres98-920.htm
EXERPT
29. During the reporting period, some progress was achieved. Iraq provided documents and clarifications on a number of issues, which the Commission sought to verify. The status of outstanding issues is given below:
(a) Material balance of chemical munitions
- 155 mm shells filled with mustard. Iraq declared that 550 shells filled with mustard had been lost shortly after the Gulf war. To date, no evidence of the missing munitions has been found. A dozen mustard-filled shells were recovered at a former chemical weapons storage facility in the period 1997-1998. The chemical sampling of these munitions in April 1998 revealed that the mustard was still of the highest quality. After seven years, the purity of mustard ranged between 94 per cent and 97 per cent. Iraq still has to account for the missing shells and to provide verifiable evidence of their disposition. In July 1998, Iraq promised to provide clarifications on this matter. To date, only preliminary information has been provided by Iraq on its continuing internal investigation;
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bamthin
Guest
fort_ludios,
You are right on the money. Nice post.
-Bam
You are right on the money. Nice post.
-Bam
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bamthin
Guest
Originally posted by jimnyc
Allow me to translate:
"I am clueless and get ripped apart on this board daily. Please be my friend"
Awww...I see you're still sore from the embarrassment I caused you....
-Bam
Originally posted by bamthin
Awww...I see you're still sore from the embarrassment I caused you....
-Bam
I see my online stalker has returned!
You've only cause me to be embarassed FOR YOU. I'll admit you have me beat when it comes to conspiracy theories, but you're obviously in the dark when it comes to facts.
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