With Al Kaline, one of the all-time great baseball players......

[wamose]

1. Hank Aaron. His numbers were better than Ruths.
2.Barry Bonds. If he took roids it doesn't matter because you still have to hit and catch the ball.
3.Babe Ruth. He can't be disrespected.
4. tie-Cal Ripken. Best shortstop probably ever in terms of an all around game.
Willey Mays/Griffey Jr.
5. Frank Robinson. I believe he was MVP in both leagues. That says it all.
6. Lou Gehrig. I don't think he was the best first baseman, but his numbers speak for themselves.
7. Nolan Ryan. Enough said.
8. Albert Pujols
9. Johnny Bench
10 tie-Brooks Robinson/Ozzie Smith/Frank White. Spectacular glovemen.

Roids does matter. Ruth played in a dead ball era and pitched his first several years. So different time periods means differences. The money became to much of a pull for grown men to cheat that the integrity of the game which had some ebbs and flows before, was destroyed by my estimation. An economic collapse would bring the balance back as sports salaries will drop to sensible levels. But a lot of pain will be felt by all citizens in that scenario.

Roids don't matter in baseball. You have got to be able to hit the baseball and catch the baseball. Ruth was not the best ever, that's all there is to it. Dead ball my ass, Aarons numbers are better than Ruths, and I believe Barry Bonds are too. Ruth did not compete against all the best players during his time either. The owners paid the money so don't blame the players for what you think money did to the game.

What are you talking about? Of course steroids matter In baseball.

Sammy and Mark became monsters

AND of course, Barry "Big Head" Bonds. He was a skinny guy, but great player, in his early years with the Pirates. If you compare pictures of him when he was with the Pirates to later in his career, after the late 1990's when he played for the Giants, he doesn't even look like the same person. He went from 165-170 lbs, in his rookie year to 230 plus, probably MORE like 240 lbs. late in his career. I've read, and with documented proof, his hat size even increased, giving him a noticeably BIGGER head. The ONLY thing that could have caused this had to have been steroids. The man who was Barry's biggest supplier, actually went to prison because he wouldn't rat on Big Head. Something tells me he was most likely warned about what would happen IF he ratted on him, and it wouldn't be pleasant. And I'm sure he was most likely paid handsomely for his silence.

I wrestled 158 pounds in college. My offseason weight was about 175. When I was 38, I weighed 210. I lifted weights and did no supplements. People gain weight when they are older and Bonds would have looked different had he done steroids. You don't get fat when you do steroids and Bonds was fat as he got older. But regardless he had to be able to hit the ball. Barry Bonds learned baseball from some of the greatest players ever while growing up. His father was a great player, Willie May was his team mate and so was Willie McCovey. They all taught Bonds baseball. So I was not surprised by what he did. Griffey Jr. was on his way to the home run record before injuries started on him and he was taught baseball by some of the greatest also.

So you're a wrestler, eh? Great game. Probably the toughest sport going. That probably makes you a pretty bad dude. I go to NCAA wrestling tourny every year even though those greedy bastards are doing their best to wreck it. ( By greedy I mean the NCAA) That's OK though. ESPN is giving it some pretty good coverage these days so maybe I'll just stay home and get fat myself. I should probably say fatter since I ain't exactly at playing weight . I have to agree with my other more conservative friends that it is good to agree with you on this. I always thought sports was a great unifier.

 

[Harry Dresden]

1. Hank Aaron. His numbers were better than Ruths.
2.Barry Bonds. If he took roids it doesn't matter because you still have to hit and catch the ball.
3.Babe Ruth. He can't be disrespected.
4. tie-Cal Ripken. Best shortstop probably ever in terms of an all around game.
Willey Mays/Griffey Jr.
5. Frank Robinson. I believe he was MVP in both leagues. That says it all.
6. Lou Gehrig. I don't think he was the best first baseman, but his numbers speak for themselves.
7. Nolan Ryan. Enough said.
8. Albert Pujols
9. Johnny Bench
10 tie-Brooks Robinson/Ozzie Smith/Frank White. Spectacular glovemen.

Roids does matter. Ruth played in a dead ball era and pitched his first several years. So different time periods means differences. The money became to much of a pull for grown men to cheat that the integrity of the game which had some ebbs and flows before, was destroyed by my estimation. An economic collapse would bring the balance back as sports salaries will drop to sensible levels. But a lot of pain will be felt by all citizens in that scenario.

Roids don't matter in baseball. You have got to be able to hit the baseball and catch the baseball. Ruth was not the best ever, that's all there is to it. Dead ball my ass, Aarons numbers are better than Ruths, and I believe Barry Bonds are too. Ruth did not compete against all the best players during his time either. The owners paid the money so don't blame the players for what you think money did to the game.

i have to agree.....the 1930s had better players than the 20's.....i wish black players like Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige would have been able to play during that time....

Can you imagine the numbers someone like Josh Gibson would've put up in major league baseball? Sadly, because of segregation, we'll never know.

He may have done less, we don't know. There were some good white pitchers out there in the majors too. But he still would have been a top notch power hitter. It's just too bad it happened how it did.

Yep. I have a feeling he would've done quite well. No one seems to know the exact number of career home runs he hit in the Negro Leagues, but most say it's somewhere between 800 to 1,000!

And I'm glad we've found some common ground we agree on and have knowledge of. I DON'T really think you're stupid, far from it. I have a tendency to let my anger and frustration get out of hand when I THINK I'm right about something. I WON'T harangue you with my sometimes asinine comments any more. It's childish to do so, I'll stop the crap from this point forward. It's refreshing to see that you obviously have extensive knowledge of the history of baseball. And thanks again for adding your comments to this thread.

Not a problem man. We were arguing about a difficult subject most of the time and it's a conversation that needs to be had no matter how nasty it gets. And I am glad that we can find something to agree on. I played baseball from the age of 5 until 18. I should have went on and played in college but I chose to wrestle. I love baseball and my favorite player was Brooks Robinson because I played 3rd base. Cheers to you.

Thanks very much for your kind reply.

I apologize for calling you a racist. I can see that I was very wrong. You know way too much about the negro leagues to be all that. I'm sorry and will not be doing that to you anymore.

Thanks, again. And your choice of Brooks Robinson is a wonderful one. He was, without question, THE greatest defensive third baseman, all-time. No one else is even close. And he was a decent hitter, as well. Just a fantastic player.

No doubt about it. I am glad I was able to see him play, even if it was on the TV.

one good thing about living in a baseball city is i have probably seen all the great American leaguers at least from 67 to this century......

 

[IM2]

1. Hank Aaron. His numbers were better than Ruths.
2.Barry Bonds. If he took roids it doesn't matter because you still have to hit and catch the ball.
3.Babe Ruth. He can't be disrespected.
4. tie-Cal Ripken. Best shortstop probably ever in terms of an all around game.
Willey Mays/Griffey Jr.
5. Frank Robinson. I believe he was MVP in both leagues. That says it all.
6. Lou Gehrig. I don't think he was the best first baseman, but his numbers speak for themselves.
7. Nolan Ryan. Enough said.
8. Albert Pujols
9. Johnny Bench
10 tie-Brooks Robinson/Ozzie Smith/Frank White. Spectacular glovemen.

Roids does matter. Ruth played in a dead ball era and pitched his first several years. So different time periods means differences. The money became to much of a pull for grown men to cheat that the integrity of the game which had some ebbs and flows before, was destroyed by my estimation. An economic collapse would bring the balance back as sports salaries will drop to sensible levels. But a lot of pain will be felt by all citizens in that scenario.

Roids don't matter in baseball. You have got to be able to hit the baseball and catch the baseball. Ruth was not the best ever, that's all there is to it. Dead ball my ass, Aarons numbers are better than Ruths, and I believe Barry Bonds are too. Ruth did not compete against all the best players during his time either. The owners paid the money so don't blame the players for what you think money did to the game.

What are you talking about? Of course steroids matter In baseball.

Sammy and Mark became monsters

AND of course, Barry "Big Head" Bonds. He was a skinny guy, but great player, in his early years with the Pirates. If you compare pictures of him when he was with the Pirates to later in his career, after the late 1990's when he played for the Giants, he doesn't even look like the same person. He went from 165-170 lbs, in his rookie year to 230 plus, probably MORE like 240 lbs. late in his career. I've read, and with documented proof, his hat size even increased, giving him a noticeably BIGGER head. The ONLY thing that could have caused this had to have been steroids. The man who was Barry's biggest supplier, actually went to prison because he wouldn't rat on Big Head. Something tells me he was most likely warned about what would happen IF he ratted on him, and it wouldn't be pleasant. And I'm sure he was most likely paid handsomely for his silence.

I wrestled 158 pounds in college. My offseason weight was about 175. When I was 38, I weighed 210. I lifted weights and did no supplements. People gain weight when they are older and Bonds would have looked different had he done steroids. You don't get fat when you do steroids and Bonds was fat as he got older. But regardless he had to be able to hit the ball. Barry Bonds learned baseball from some of the greatest players ever while growing up. His father was a great player, Willie May was his team mate and so was Willie McCovey. They all taught Bonds baseball. So I was not surprised by what he did. Griffey Jr. was on his way to the home run record before injuries started on him and he was taught baseball by some of the greatest also.

So you're a wrestler, eh? Great game. Probably the toughest sport going. That probably makes you a pretty bad dude. I go to NCAA wrestling tourny every year even though those greedy bastards are doing their best to wreck it. ( By greedy I mean the NCAA) That's OK though. ESPN is giving it some pretty good coverage these days so maybe I'll just stay home and get fat myself. I should probably say fatter since I ain't exactly at playing weight . I have to agree with my other more conservative friends that it is good to agree with you on this. I always thought sports was a great unifier.

Sports does unify, that is true. Wrestling was hard, but fun. And I watch the championships every year myself.

 

[22lcidw]

1. Hank Aaron. His numbers were better than Ruths.
2.Barry Bonds. If he took roids it doesn't matter because you still have to hit and catch the ball.
3.Babe Ruth. He can't be disrespected.
4. tie-Cal Ripken. Best shortstop probably ever in terms of an all around game.
Willey Mays/Griffey Jr.
5. Frank Robinson. I believe he was MVP in both leagues. That says it all.
6. Lou Gehrig. I don't think he was the best first baseman, but his numbers speak for themselves.
7. Nolan Ryan. Enough said.
8. Albert Pujols
9. Johnny Bench
10 tie-Brooks Robinson/Ozzie Smith/Frank White. Spectacular glovemen.

Roids does matter. Ruth played in a dead ball era and pitched his first several years. So different time periods means differences. The money became to much of a pull for grown men to cheat that the integrity of the game which had some ebbs and flows before, was destroyed by my estimation. An economic collapse would bring the balance back as sports salaries will drop to sensible levels. But a lot of pain will be felt by all citizens in that scenario.

Roids don't matter in baseball. You have got to be able to hit the baseball and catch the baseball. Ruth was not the best ever, that's all there is to it. Dead ball my ass, Aarons numbers are better than Ruths, and I believe Barry Bonds are too. Ruth did not compete against all the best players during his time either. The owners paid the money so don't blame the players for what you think money did to the game.

What are you talking about? Of course steroids matter In baseball.

Sammy and Mark became monsters

AND of course, Barry "Big Head" Bonds. He was a skinny guy, but great player, in his early years with the Pirates. If you compare pictures of him when he was with the Pirates to later in his career, after the late 1990's when he played for the Giants, he doesn't even look like the same person. He went from 165-170 lbs, in his rookie year to 230 plus, probably MORE like 240 lbs. late in his career. I've read, and with documented proof, his hat size even increased, giving him a noticeably BIGGER head. The ONLY thing that could have caused this had to have been steroids. The man who was Barry's biggest supplier, actually went to prison because he wouldn't rat on Big Head. Something tells me he was most likely warned about what would happen IF he ratted on him, and it wouldn't be pleasant. And I'm sure he was most likely paid handsomely for his silence.

I wrestled 158 pounds in college. My offseason weight was about 175. When I was 38, I weighed 210. I lifted weights and did no supplements. People gain weight when they are older and Bonds would have looked different had he done steroids. You don't get fat when you do steroids and Bonds was fat as he got older. But regardless he had to be able to hit the ball. Barry Bonds learned baseball from some of the greatest players ever while growing up. His father was a great player, Willie May was his team mate and so was Willie McCovey. They all taught Bonds baseball. So I was not surprised by what he did. Griffey Jr. was on his way to the home run record before injuries started on him and he was taught baseball by some of the greatest also.

So you're a wrestler, eh? Great game. Probably the toughest sport going. That probably makes you a pretty bad dude. I go to NCAA wrestling tourny every year even though those greedy bastards are doing their best to wreck it. ( By greedy I mean the NCAA) That's OK though. ESPN is giving it some pretty good coverage these days so maybe I'll just stay home and get fat myself. I should probably say fatter since I ain't exactly at playing weight . I have to agree with my other more conservative friends that it is good to agree with you on this. I always thought sports was a great unifier.

Sports does unify, that is true. Wrestling was hard, but fun. And I watch the championships every year myself.

When the price is within sensible limits sports are great. It is past for love of the game in the top sports. Its a business.