Will the Palis step up to the plate?

[Ravi]

I think overall that Obama made sense when he repeated what is basically Bill Clinton's original suggestion that Israel needs to base its borders on what existed in 1967 with mutually agreed upon land swaps.

Israel needs clearly defined borders before any other problems are solved.

I think Netanyahu will eventually come around to this line of reasoning.

But what of the Palis? Will they continue to push for the destruction of Israel? Or will they act like grown ups and do what is in the best interest of their future generations?

 

[High_Gravity]

Well from what I hear they are now saying the 1967 borders are not enough.

 

[Tank]

The Palis will always be a violent and hateful people

 

[Baruch Menachem]

The borders are not the issue. Everyone is agreeing to the same formulation. Land swaps, border close to the June 1, 1967 lines.

The problem Obama made was making this the first requirement. Israel is angry because Security comes first, the Arabs are upset because he does not address the issue of Right of Return.

Neither side is going to budge on what, to them, is the big issue. The Palestinians want 100% right of return of all properties before they even begin to negotiate. The Israelis are saying, no way in hell.

The border issue is the very last item on either party's agenda. Maybe after debating the color of ink in the pens at the signing. Maybe before.

 

[High_Gravity]

The right of return means Israel basically has to give everything back right?

 

[Ravi]

Well from what I hear they are now saying the 1967 borders are not enough.

That would be Hamas making that statement. The Palis need to purge Hamas.

 

[High_Gravity]

Well from what I hear they are now saying the 1967 borders are not enough.

That would be Hamas making that statement. The Palis need to purge Hamas.

I agree 100%.

 

[Ravi]

The right of return means Israel basically has to give everything back right?

Not really. But the "right of return" is just as ridiculous as reparations for blacks in this country or giving America back to the Natives.

Some things are just not going to happen.

But those things cannot be addressed until borders are agreed upon.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I think overall that Obama made sense when he repeated what is basically Bill Clinton's original suggestion that Israel needs to base its borders on what existed in 1967 with mutually agreed upon land swaps.

Israel needs clearly defined borders before any other problems are solved.

I think Netanyahu will eventually come around to this line of reasoning.

But what of the Palis? Will they continue to push for the destruction of Israel? Or will they act like grown ups and do what is in the best interest of their future generations?

It's not the Palis anymore, it's Hamas. A terror group backed by Iran.

Yes. It's in thier charter. The PLO got Israel to trade land for peace once before. Then they kept on fighting, encouraged by what they had done to make Israel smaller.
They think destroying Israel is in the best intrest of thier childrens future, no matter how many of them have to kill themselves.

 

[Tank]

The Palis need to purge Hamas.

They are the same

 

[Two Thumbs]

Well from what I hear they are now saying the 1967 borders are not enough.

That would be Hamas making that statement. The Palis need to purge Hamas.

The Pals elected them.

they want what they bring.

 

[High_Gravity]

Well from what I hear they are now saying the 1967 borders are not enough.

That would be Hamas making that statement. The Palis need to purge Hamas.

The Pals elected them.

they want what they bring.

Hamas had a chance to show what they were made of in Gaza, if they were serious about peace they could turn Gaza into another Singapore, but instead they turned Gaza into Eritrea.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Not quite. First the british and then the Israelis kept the old Ottoman land tenure laws. And the Jews owned large amounts of land that was directly purchased from the Ottoman overlords.

But pretty the attitude is, that if it was in private control by an arab family in 1948, they have to give all that back. State land is still state land. And since we are talking Ottoman land tenure laws, it pretty much is all state land.

The Israeli position is not that it was abandoned due to war conditions, but that much of it was turned over to the Arab militaries for use in slaughtering jews. If it were just abandoned due to war, they would have no claim on it. Their position seems to be it was seized contraband.

The Israeli position also seems to be that x number of jews were robbed of their possessions by the arab states and dumped on Israel. Therefore it is just that x number of Palestinians who left their spots should also be dispossessed.

Both sides suck when it comes to being overly legalistic and formalistic about what amounts to robbery with violence. I am just presenting their positions without endorsement on either side.

My personal view is that the arabs decided war was better than negotiation. And they lost. They gambled and crapped out. If you decide war is a better option and loose, than you have to take the consequences of your own foolishness.

 

[GHook93]

I think overall that Obama made sense when he repeated what is basically Bill Clinton's original suggestion that Israel needs to base its borders on what existed in 1967 with mutually agreed upon land swaps.

Israel needs clearly defined borders before any other problems are solved.

I think Netanyahu will eventually come around to this line of reasoning.

But what of the Palis? Will they continue to push for the destruction of Israel? Or will they act like grown ups and do what is in the best interest of their future generations?

They did! Hamas just asked for '48 line and right of return of 4.8 million Palestinians. Otherwise they will go to war!

 

[Ropey]

My personal view is that the arabs decided war was better than negotiation. And they lost. They gambled and crapped out. If you decide war is a better option and loose, than you have to take the consequences of your own foolishness.

Not when you are an Arab it would seem.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Well from what I hear they are now saying the 1967 borders are not enough.

That would be Hamas making that statement. The Palis need to purge Hamas.

Purge meaning what? Hamas is a political party. The Palestinians are a nation. I wish you had not chosen such an infelicitous phrase.

Though the only real alternative is to do re education Chinese/vietnamese style. that is not a good option either.

 

[Ravi]

Not vote for them. Not let them dictate the future of the middle east.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Not vote for them. Not let them dictate the future of the middle east.

Hamas pol; Vote for me! And I will destroy Israel.
Palis; No, I'm tired of all the killing, besides it's not that bad if we work on it.

*the sound of a rifle round being loaded*

Hamas pol; Vote for me! And I will destroy Israel.
Palis; You make a great point. I will vote for you, twice.

 

[High_Gravity]

Not vote for them. Not let them dictate the future of the middle east.

Hamas pol; Vote for me! And I will destroy Israel.
Palis; No, I'm tired of all the killing, besides it's not that bad if we work on it.

*the sound of a rifle round being loaded*

Hamas pol; Vote for me! And I will destroy Israel.
Palis; You make a great point. I will vote for you, twice.

Yup, if you live in Gaza and you dont vote Hamas, good luck explaining why you didn't.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Not vote for them. Not let them dictate the future of the middle east.

Hamas pol; Vote for me! And I will destroy Israel.
Palis; No, I'm tired of all the killing, besides it's not that bad if we work on it.

*the sound of a rifle round being loaded*

Hamas pol; Vote for me! And I will destroy Israel.
Palis; You make a great point. I will vote for you, twice.

Yup, if you live in Gaza and you dont vote Hamas, good luck explaining why you didn't.

What? You mean to tell me there's no right to privacy under Shira law?

i'm stunned, no really, i'm so shocked i can barely type this