Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[GWV5903]

That seems to be the problem, doesn't it? Finishing the job. It's rather hard to finish the job when you're chasing ghosts and boogeymen. We set fire in our own living room and then invade the neighbor's house.

It depends on what your definition of "finishing" means, doesn't it? My suggestion is to make Pakistan into a mound of ruble for hiding OBL, that is quit simple, no one is going to do anything about it if we do...

The OBL rationalization for the '93 WTC Bombing and subsequently the 9/11/2001 destruction of the WTC with 3,000 innocent victims was that our troops were in Saudi Arabia, right? Yet we supported the Afghan's and helped them defeat the USSR, correct?

So after all of this, your analogy is "We set fire in our own living room and then invade the neighbor's house" that may get a few laughs in a comedy routine, in fact I am sure certain people would do just that, but I know the family's of the 9/11 tragedy and the victims of these cold cowards terrorist bombings around the world, who by the way have nothing to do with our living rooms, would find it quit the opposite...

Nagasaki & Hiroshima put a end to Japan's attempt to rule Asia...

Make Pakistan into a mound of....???????
The world is such a simple place in your head isn't it?

No, not at all...

So how many more innocent people need to die before it is a decision you would consider?

No one wants to make these decisions, can't say I blame them either, but sooner or later it will have to be made...

 

[FactFinder]

Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

It was a failure because we went into additonal debt of over a Trillion and we should not have been there in the 1st place.

Tell me what value going there was....please please. What value are we receiving from being there still?

 

[JakeStarkey]

We had no business going to war in Iraq, and the ten years have proven that.

 

[traveler52]

We had no business going to war in Iraq, and the ten years have proven that.

Simply Put and Well Stated.

 

[traveler52]

Double Post.

 

[Unkotare]

We had no business going to war in Iraq, and the ten years have proven that.

He says as the Arab Spring rolls on...

 

[georgephillip]

We had no business going to war in Iraq, and the ten years have proven that.

He says as the Arab Spring rolls on...

Who says?

"The illegal American invasion of Iraq and subsequent occupation was so epochal a catastrophe that it spawned a negative phrase in Arabic, “to Iraqize” or `arqana. Tonight I heard an Alarabiya anchor ask a spokesman for the new government in Libya whether there as a danger of the country being 'Iraqized.'

"He was taken aback and asked her what she meant.

"Apparently she meant chaos, civil war, no services, etc. (Those Neoconservatives who trumpet their Iraq misadventure as a predecessor to the Arab Spring should take a lesson; no one cites Iraq among the youth movements except as an example of what must be avoided)..."

How to Avoid Bush's Iraq Mistakes in Libya | Informed Comment

 

[JakeStarkey]

Arab Spring is antithetical to the elements released by the American invasion of Iraq.

 

[Unkotare]

We had no business going to war in Iraq, and the ten years have proven that.

He says as the Arab Spring rolls on...

Who says?

"The illegal American invasion of Iraq and subsequent occupation was so epochal a catastrophe that it spawned a negative phrase in Arabic, “to Iraqize” or `arqana. Tonight I heard an Alarabiya anchor ask a spokesman for the new government in Libya whether there as a danger of the country being 'Iraqized.'

"He was taken aback and asked her what she meant.

"Apparently she meant chaos, civil war, no services, etc. (Those Neoconservatives who trumpet their Iraq misadventure as a predecessor to the Arab Spring should take a lesson; no one cites Iraq among the youth movements except as an example of what must be avoided)..."

How to Avoid Bush's Iraq Mistakes in Libya | Informed Comment

The US invasion of Iraq was not "illegal," and you and yours will find it harder and harder to deny the sweep of history that is playing out before us.

 

[Unkotare]

Arab Spring is antithetical to the elements released by the American invasion of Iraq.

The belief that freedom from tyranical dictatorship is possible? The willingness to risk personal safety for the sake of securing representative government and all that goes with it?

Yeah...

 

[JRK]

The ugly truth is that Obama is squandering a trillion dollars and decimating American wealth in order to push his selfish agendas of arrogant pride on how he hurt and got rid of all America's mean old wealthy people who gave for years to lift other desperate countries of cruel political circumstance.

No, that's an ugly lie and unrelated to the thread.

So now you're backing away from the topic of the thread?

Gee, I wonder why...

No, the truth is, Obama is so desperate and determined to discredit President Bush's astonishing good of freeing 50,000,000 Arabs from despotic rulers, he is willing to pull the carpet out from underneath the Iraqis trying to fight off the old Saddam cabal by removing American troops too soon. That's why there was a State Department warning issued to American citizens. The people our troops were containing are now out to murder and kidnap any American they can lay their mitts on.

State Department Iraqi Travel Warning.

Bahamas, The 08/23/2011
Libya 08/23/2011
Somalia 08/19/2011
Chad 08/16/2011
Haiti 08/08/2011
Pakistan 08/08/2011
Syria 08/05/2011
Niger 08/05/2011
Saudi Arabia 08/05/2011
Central African Republic 07/28/2011
Colombia 07/22/2011
Congo, Democratic Republic of the 07/19/2011
Republic of South Sudan 07/12/2011
Israel, the West Bank and Gaza 06/22/2011
Sudan 06/22/2011
Cote d'Ivoire 06/16/2011
Philippines 06/14/2011
Burundi 06/01/2011
Yemen 05/25/2011
Syria 04/25/2011
Uzbekistan 04/25/2011
Mexico 04/22/2011
Burkina Faso 04/19/2011
Nigeria 04/15/2011
Iraq 04/12/2011
Lebanon 04/04/2011
Algeria 03/16/2011
Mauritania 03/11/2011
Afghanistan 03/08/2011
Mali 03/02/2011
Eritrea 02/27/2011
Pakistan 02/02/2011
Nepal 01/12/2011
Kenya 12/28/2010
Guinea 12/03/2010
Iran 10/08/2010
Korea, Democratic People's Republic of 08/27/2010

He knows he won't be able to fudge elections in 2012 because the Republicans are going to be watching former ACORN Precinct Chairmen like ugly on an ape. He therefore, has to rearrange history (which he can't) and get his collaborators in the Media to back up the bullshit with lies and omissions. And he has to keep the blame Bush crap alive with all the omission fibbies and braggadocio his apparatchiks can muster.

If he pulls out of Iraq and Afghanistan, he can "prove" Bush's war was for nothing, that our troops died for nothing. He has the ya-yas like Carter and others behind him (or does he?)

It's all to discredit Bush so he doesn't have to take responsibility for being the incompetent, pushoff he's always been, and keep the big bucks from George Soros rolling his way.

What a stupid plan. OMG, did I say plan? YES I DID!

Obama plans to destroy all America's rich people so he can prove to the masses how important he is, and when we're all down in the gutter, he can put his foot on our heads and tell the poor folks worldwide, sorry, the American gravy train is not coming their way any more, because he got rid of all the money by giving it to the poor, who squandered it all on drugs and marijuana. hoo hoo hoo.

What a vapid victory.

war was for nothing?
Do you people realize that 62% of there population voted in the 2010 election cycle?
Do you realize Saddam and his regime along with any chance of him doing any more harm is gone?
we have bases in Saudi we closed for good as well as Kuwait
Iraq Election ” Viewed From Basra, and Dubai
What is wrong with you people?

 

[JRK]

Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

It was a failure because we went into additonal debt of over a Trillion and we should not have been there in the 1st place.

Tell me what value going there was....please please. What value are we receiving from being there still?

After 9-11 there was no more UN dealing with that regime
from crude oil disruption
WMDs (yes there was over 500 found that were suppose to have been destroyed and whats worse the amount of nerve gas agent and anthrax that was not found)
ignoring UN sanctions (see above)
To Saddam lying over and over (see above)
Saddam had 10 years to do the right thing

The cost of the war is an item I do not debate. In hindsight we should have had a vat tax attached solely to the war cost and when the war ended as it is now, it went away
Now what about the failed job stimulus? it cost as much in additional debt
CBO: Eight Years Of Iraq War Cost Less Than Stimulus Act | FoxNews.com

 

[georgephillip]

He says as the Arab Spring rolls on...

Who says?

"The illegal American invasion of Iraq and subsequent occupation was so epochal a catastrophe that it spawned a negative phrase in Arabic, “to Iraqize” or `arqana. Tonight I heard an Alarabiya anchor ask a spokesman for the new government in Libya whether there as a danger of the country being 'Iraqized.'

"He was taken aback and asked her what she meant.

"Apparently she meant chaos, civil war, no services, etc. (Those Neoconservatives who trumpet their Iraq misadventure as a predecessor to the Arab Spring should take a lesson; no one cites Iraq among the youth movements except as an example of what must be avoided)..."

How to Avoid Bush's Iraq Mistakes in Libya | Informed Comment

The US invasion of Iraq was not "illegal," and you and yours will find it harder and harder to deny the sweep of history that is playing out before us.

Since the sovereign nation of Iraq posed no threat to the existence of the world's only superpower, the US invasion and occupation was and is illegal under international law. Those who seek to rewrite history should start by explaining why Ahmad Chalabi fired tens of thousands of capable Iraqi bureaucrats in the spring of 2003, marking the beginning of Iraq's descent into looting.

 

[Unkotare]

Who says?

"The illegal American invasion of Iraq and subsequent occupation was so epochal a catastrophe that it spawned a negative phrase in Arabic, “to Iraqize” or `arqana. Tonight I heard an Alarabiya anchor ask a spokesman for the new government in Libya whether there as a danger of the country being 'Iraqized.'

"He was taken aback and asked her what she meant.

"Apparently she meant chaos, civil war, no services, etc. (Those Neoconservatives who trumpet their Iraq misadventure as a predecessor to the Arab Spring should take a lesson; no one cites Iraq among the youth movements except as an example of what must be avoided)..."

How to Avoid Bush's Iraq Mistakes in Libya | Informed Comment

The US invasion of Iraq was not "illegal," and you and yours will find it harder and harder to deny the sweep of history that is playing out before us.

Since the sovereign nation of Iraq posed no threat to the existence of the world's only superpower, the US invasion and occupation was and is illegal under international law. Those who seek to rewrite history should start by explaining why Ahmad Chalabi fired tens of thousands of capable Iraqi bureaucrats in the spring of 2003, marking the beginning of Iraq's descent into looting.

The US invasion of Iraq was NOT "illegal." Iraq was in violation of the terms of ceasefire from the first Gulf War, and several UN resolutions made provision for consequences to such behavior. Argue about the details all you want, but the invasion was NOT "illegal" and will never be treated as such.

 

[georgephillip]

The US invasion of Iraq was not "illegal," and you and yours will find it harder and harder to deny the sweep of history that is playing out before us.

Since the sovereign nation of Iraq posed no threat to the existence of the world's only superpower, the US invasion and occupation was and is illegal under international law. Those who seek to rewrite history should start by explaining why Ahmad Chalabi fired tens of thousands of capable Iraqi bureaucrats in the spring of 2003, marking the beginning of Iraq's descent into looting.

The US invasion of Iraq was NOT "illegal." Iraq was in violation of the terms of ceasefire from the first Gulf War, and several UN resolutions made provision for consequences to such behavior. Argue about the details all you want, but the invasion was NOT "illegal" and will never be treated as such.

"The legality of the invasion and occupation of Iraq has been widely debated since the United States, United Kingdom, and a coalition of other countries launched the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"The then United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in September 2004 that:'From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal.'[1][2]

"The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court reported in February 2006 that he had received 240 communications in connection with the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 which alleged that various war crimes had been committed.

"The political leaders of the US and UK have argued the war was legal, while many legal experts and other international leaders have argued that it was illegal..."

Legality of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unless you can prove Iraq posed an existential threat to the US, the US invasion and occupation was and is illegal under international law.

 

[Unkotare]

Since the sovereign nation of Iraq posed no threat to the existence of the world's only superpower, the US invasion and occupation was and is illegal under international law. Those who seek to rewrite history should start by explaining why Ahmad Chalabi fired tens of thousands of capable Iraqi bureaucrats in the spring of 2003, marking the beginning of Iraq's descent into looting.

The US invasion of Iraq was NOT "illegal." Iraq was in violation of the terms of ceasefire from the first Gulf War, and several UN resolutions made provision for consequences to such behavior. Argue about the details all you want, but the invasion was NOT "illegal" and will never be treated as such.

"The legality of the invasion and occupation of Iraq has been widely debated since the United States, United Kingdom, and a coalition of other countries launched the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"The then United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in September 2004 that:'From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal.'[1][2]

"The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court reported in February 2006 that he had received 240 communications in connection with the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 which alleged that various war crimes had been committed.

"The political leaders of the US and UK have argued the war was legal, while many legal experts and other international leaders have argued that it was illegal..."

Legality of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unless you can prove Iraq posed an existential threat to the US, the US invasion and occupation was and is illegal under international law.

The quotes you yourself chose to include above demonstrate that there is debate and disagreement on the issue. That alone invalidates your declarative statement on the issue.

Proving that "Iraq posed an existential threat, etc" has NOTHING to do with the matter we are discussing. Iraq was in violation of the terms of ceasefire from the first Gulf War. THAT is what various UN resolutions clearly indicated could (and did) trigger a response. The fact that you are incapable of understanding what a "threat" is beyond tanks rolling up on a beach is a separate matter.

You reference Koffi Annan? Really? The guy whose own son was up to his armpits in black market deals with Saddam prior to the war? No conflict of interest there? Don't be ridiculous.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Arab Spring is antithetical to the elements released by the American invasion of Iraq.

The belief that freedom from tyranical dictatorship is possible? The willingness to risk personal safety for the sake of securing representative government and all that goes with it? Yeah...

Your points have been easily and often answered already, so reasking them only invalidates them. They have been answered. We did not go to war for Iraqi freedom, and a religious theocracy allied with Iran against us is the inevitable outcome of the war.

 

[Unkotare]

Arab Spring is antithetical to the elements released by the American invasion of Iraq.

The belief that freedom from tyranical dictatorship is possible? The willingness to risk personal safety for the sake of securing representative government and all that goes with it? Yeah...

Your points have been easily and often answered already, so reasking them only invalidates them. They have been answered. We did not go to war for Iraqi freedom, and a religious theocracy allied with Iran against us is the inevitable outcome of the war.

Failing to answer my questions DOES invalidate your position. You may deny history as it unfolds before your eyes, but ducking does nothing to bolster your opinion.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your questions have been answered time and again.

As Iraq continues to ally with Iran, the neo-con perfidy becomes so obvious that treason trials of the bushies are the only truly American and righteous answer.

 

[georgephillip]

The US invasion of Iraq was NOT "illegal." Iraq was in violation of the terms of ceasefire from the first Gulf War, and several UN resolutions made provision for consequences to such behavior. Argue about the details all you want, but the invasion was NOT "illegal" and will never be treated as such.

"The legality of the invasion and occupation of Iraq has been widely debated since the United States, United Kingdom, and a coalition of other countries launched the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

"The then United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan said in September 2004 that:'From our point of view and the UN Charter point of view, it [the war] was illegal.'[1][2]

"The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court reported in February 2006 that he had received 240 communications in connection with the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 which alleged that various war crimes had been committed.

"The political leaders of the US and UK have argued the war was legal, while many legal experts and other international leaders have argued that it was illegal..."

Legality of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Unless you can prove Iraq posed an existential threat to the US, the US invasion and occupation was and is illegal under international law.

The quotes you yourself chose to include above demonstrate that there is debate and disagreement on the issue. That alone invalidates your declarative statement on the issue.

Proving that "Iraq posed an existential threat, etc" has NOTHING to do with the matter we are discussing. Iraq was in violation of the terms of ceasefire from the first Gulf War. THAT is what various UN resolutions clearly indicated could (and did) trigger a response. The fact that you are incapable of understanding what a "threat" is beyond tanks rolling up on a beach is a separate matter.

You reference Koffi Annan? Really? The guy whose own son was up to his armpits in black market deals with Saddam prior to the war? No conflict of interest there? Don't be ridiculous.

When did Iraq instigate an armed attack the US?

When did the UN Security Council authorize an invasion of Iraq?

According to international law and the UN Charter those are the only two valid reasons for the lawful use of force between sovereign states.

The US/UK invasion of Iraq was illegal.

http://cesr.org/downloads/Tearing%20up%20the%20Rules%20The%20Illegality%20of%20Invading%20IRaq%202003.pdf