Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[JakeStarkey]

The answer is that the Iraqi invasion and its consequences resulted from the worst foreign policy decision by any American administration in history,

You guys are going to have to own it forever, neo-cons.

 

[Bloodline]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

Find and eliminate Saddam Hussein's WMD and neutralize his ability to continue his WMD programs.

NOT DONE.

Nearly a trillion dollars in wasted tax money spent on a lie

DONE.

The near bankrupcy of the U.S. economy

DONE

4,487 soldiers dead and another 32,223 wounded

DONE

Loss of respect in the international community and the loss of our reputation as "peace keepers"

DONE

The destabilization of the power balance in the middle east and the creation of a dangerous power vacuum

DONE

The creation of deep seated hatred toward our country by a people who previously had none and the guarantee of retribution for generations

DONE

A president and his cabinent in retirement making money off of books and lectures instead of standing trial for war crimes thus setting a terrible precedent the next time WE want to call another tyrannical world leader a "criminal"

Done

Anymore questions?

You and Mac have the same respect level
The troops who gave it all never asked for your opinion, they felt it was the right thing to do. You should respect that
The debt?
In 2007 we were within 163 billion of a balanced budget, in 2010 it was well over 1 trillion
The difference?
The GOP and the Democratic party, not the enforcement of surrender terms

As far as respect? there was 34 countries in Iraq enforcing those terms of surrender

Crime? it is sad that each of you never state your facts to be disputed. You just make claims that have nothing back them up

And having Mac on your side? there are millions of marines who think allot if Mac and the way he honors there sacrifices
I would choose my friends more wisley

Well it didn't take you long to dive into the muck and regurgitate the same lame talking points put out by the Karl Rove spin machine back in 2003!

"Anyone who refuses to pledge BLIND unquestioning support for ANYTHING the Bushies say or do is against the troops."

That dog don't hunt no more though.

Just ask these guys....

Iraq Veterans Against the War | You are not alone

I'll get back to your other points later.

I have a lunch date.

 

[JRK]

Find and eliminate Saddam Hussein's WMD and neutralize his ability to continue his WMD programs.

NOT DONE.

Nearly a trillion dollars in wasted tax money spent on a lie

DONE.

The near bankrupcy of the U.S. economy

DONE

4,487 soldiers dead and another 32,223 wounded

DONE

Loss of respect in the international community and the loss of our reputation as "peace keepers"

DONE

The destabilization of the power balance in the middle east and the creation of a dangerous power vacuum

DONE

The creation of deep seated hatred toward our country by a people who previously had none and the guarantee of retribution for generations

DONE

A president and his cabinent in retirement making money off of books and lectures instead of standing trial for war crimes thus setting a terrible precedent the next time WE want to call another tyrannical world leader a "criminal"

Done

Anymore questions?

You and Mac have the same respect level
The troops who gave it all never asked for your opinion, they felt it was the right thing to do. You should respect that
The debt?
In 2007 we were within 163 billion of a balanced budget, in 2010 it was well over 1 trillion
The difference?
The GOP and the Democratic party, not the enforcement of surrender terms

As far as respect? there was 34 countries in Iraq enforcing those terms of surrender

Crime? it is sad that each of you never state your facts to be disputed. You just make claims that have nothing back them up

And having Mac on your side? there are millions of marines who think allot if Mac and the way he honors there sacrifices
I would choose my friends more wisley

Well it didn't take you long to dive into the muck and regurgitate the same lame talking points put out by the Karl Rove spin machine back in 2003!

"Anyone who refuses to pledge BLIND unquestioning support for ANYTHING the Bushies say or do is against the troops."

That dog don't hunt no more though.

Just ask these guys....

Iraq Veterans Against the War | You are not alone

I'll get back to your other points later.

I have a lunch date.

I do not have to ask any-one, I have family members who were there
The only question I would have for those people is why volunteer for something your against?
K Rove had nothing to do with who and what Saddam was
I have never claimed any-one needed to be in blind support of anything, that is not what those people went there to fight for
You want to dis respect the event, that is your choice
Talking points?
Saddam killing millions is a fact
Saddam Hussein killer file
www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.htmlAug 12, 2001 – Saddam translates to 'One Who Confronts'. Country: Iraq. Kill tally: Approaching two million, including between 150000 and 340000 Iraqi and ...

Saddam ignored the terms of surrender from 1991, that is a fact
Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918Jun 29, 2006 – Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says. By Samantha L. Quigley American Forces Press Service. WASHINGTON, June 29 ...

Update 27 January 2003

These are not talking points, these are facts

 

[buckeye45_73]

Well Liberals wont say it succeeded, because apparently a dictator that has rape rooms and tortures his sbujects is ok, but he better not waterboard....ooohh that real torture.

 

[JRK]

This vets against the war link is a joke t be used as it is
There has been over 1 million people volunteer to fight these battles to the point in which many are being turned away
That compared to the very very very very few who ask for your money to be against the war makes
a mockery of the millions who did there job, went home and asking for nothing more in return

 

[JRK]

Well Liberals wont say it succeeded, because apparently a dictator that has rape rooms and tortures his sbujects is ok, but he better not waterboard....ooohh that real torture.

There hate for GWB boggles the mind
To ignore the real terrorist such as Saddam boggles the mind

 

[JakeStarkey]

The neo-cons made a mockery of everything America stands for. The personnel who were trapped with Stop Go and not allowed to exit when they were supposed to discharge. The terrible post-discharge conditions for vets. The fact that no WMDS as described by the administration were found, ever. The fact that the economy was severely damaged by costs kept off the regular budget, the fact the war was outsourced to corporations, who raped the taxpayer, And on and on and on . . .

JRK has no moral basis to speak on behalf of the vets, none.

JRK is a disgrace,

 

[buckeye45_73]

The neo-cons made a mockery of everything America stands for. The personnel who were trapped with Stop Go and not allowed to exit when they were supposed to discharge. The terrible post-discharge conditions for vets. The fact that no WMDS as described by the administration were found, ever. The fact that the economy was severely damaged by costs kept off the regular budget, the fact the war was outsourced to corporations, who raped the taxpayer, And on and on and on . . .

JRK has no moral basis to speak on behalf of the vets, none.

JRK is a disgrace,

So there was no WMD, yet everyone in the world thought there was....so after 9/11 you'd just allow things to go on as normal..

oh and the UN, I bet you love it...so if they issue 17 declarations that are ignored or violated, what should we do? I'd love to ditch the UN, it's useless and the Iraq situtaion in the 90s proved it. Typical liberal crap, stop, if you dont stop....I'm gonna tell you again....at some point their has to be an ass whoopin for that to be effective, liberals dont get that.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Thank you for admitting there were no WMDs.

OK, the USA won the war then lost the peace. And broke Iraq good. And nearly broke our economy. And ruined our Reserve and National Guard units with repeated tours over and over and over there,.

The UN? Show me where the UN authorized the USA to act on behalf of the UN.

Ass whopping? Sure was: our economy, our troop morale, our standing in the world, and so forth.

You neo-cons broke it all, you own it all.

 

[Too Tall]

Yeah.

It wasn't a "failure" it was a crime.

Then who do you put in jail?

Who?

No US President has been jailed after leaving office (Although Conservatives tried to break that protocol with President Clinton over nonsense)..

Do I think that President Bush and the Vice President Cheney should be put into jail for this? Sure..but it would not be practical and would violate a great many unwritten rules.

So what should happen? An honest investigation as to what exactly happened..and why..then legislation that explicitly limits the use of force. Personally, I don't want to see the President's power to use force diminished..but he or she should not be able to commit troops to a country and not have a rational reason to do so. And it should be a crime to lie to the people..followed by impeachment and removal from office.

What lie did Bush tell?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Thank you for admitting there were no WMDs.

OK, the USA won the war then lost the peace. And broke Iraq good. And nearly broke our economy. And ruined our Reserve and National Guard units with repeated tours over and over and over there,.

The UN? Show me where the UN authorized the USA to act on behalf of the UN.

Ass whopping? Sure was: our economy, our troop morale, our standing in the world, and so forth.

You neo-cons broke it all, you own it all.

yeah broke our economy, funny thing is our economy was better during the war. Thanks but you're not dealing with a high school student. What do you think the 17th resolution was for. It was the resolution that allowed Hussein to comply or ...................be dealt with. He didnt comply (as usual) and therefore action was taken. So you would have just let it go on and on and on. Sorry but what broke the economy was affirmative action housing.....giving people loans who couldnt afford the houses so we have a more "Equal" share of diversity in home ownership. Then with all these loans and people defaulting, ooops.....CRASH and with OBama failing to do ANYTHING about energy (gotta use fossil fuels now, alternative energy isnt practical right now) it's difficult for the economy to recover.

I'm sure you're ok with the UN allowing Iran to have nukes, yeah that's a great idea, except I thought liberals were big on nuclear non proliferation? So you are until a country decides to go for it and then you're like...oh whatever we were just kidding.

 

[Too Tall]

Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

Ask the families of the dead and wounded soldiers if their sacrifice in Iraq was worth the cost.

Why don't you ask them? I would bet that most of them are American Patriots and knew the hazards of military service.

 

[JRK]

The neo-cons made a mockery of everything America stands for. The personnel who were trapped with Stop Go and not allowed to exit when they were supposed to discharge. The terrible post-discharge conditions for vets. The fact that no WMDS as described by the administration were found, ever. The fact that the economy was severely damaged by costs kept off the regular budget, the fact the war was outsourced to corporations, who raped the taxpayer, And on and on and on . . .

JRK has no moral basis to speak on behalf of the vets, none.

JRK is a disgrace,

You ever heard of the US constitution Jake?
there is that silly little thing called freedom of speech
Now when it comes to not finding what the Admin claimed was in Iraq, which one and what claims are you talking about?

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998
RightWingNews.com :: Archives

He was right in some cases here. The over 500 munitions found after we went in to enforce the terms of surrender Saddam had ignored still had the potential to be used as was the case in Japan with the Sub Way gassing

Dis grace?
Jake your hate for me is becoming comical, chill out bud
your attacking and the people who you claim to be evil are not, that is confusing Jake
Jake the issues the VETs face today are there issues
All we can do is support them
Using there plight to find support for your agenda is not helping any-one

 

[Too Tall]

The evil is you and your words, JRK. the hate for those who disagree with you.

Yes, your type is the enemy of our country and its institutions and its beliefs and our people,

Those of us who understand you believe that you cannot be helped, JRK, that you have become so enmeshed with the perversion of neo-con ideals that you cannot find your way back,

Please stop defending the wrong.

Jake I thought I was on Ignore?
What is it I am defending that is wrong?
removing mass murders?
Terrorist?
What exactly is a neo-con idea?
And exactly where is it I am trying to find my way back to?

After the dozens of times you kept saying I was on ignore and now it is fun to watch you hop up and down for being told the same thing. You are going to be on ignore, ignore, ignore, when I get around to it. You will just have to hop and up and down for now.

You guys damaged our economy, wrecked our military, and screwed up the Guard and Reserve.

You have no moral right to speak for the veterans.

That should be clear enough, hmmm?

The housing collapse damaged our economy, and the Clinton administration started it and Bush continued it. Bush did try and slow it down, but the Democrats weren't having any of it.

I am a Veteran and I agree with JRK most of the time. What do you think the purpose of having a Reserve and a National Guard is? I also served in the Guard as well as on active duty, and in the Guard we drilled once a month and two weeks in the summer to prepare to go to war if called. We got paid to do this.

 

[LilOlLady]

And it cost us billions and over 5,000 lives of yound women and men, lives of millions of Iraqis destoryed and for what was none of our businesses any way. We are not the police of the world. Saddam was not a threat and we killed more Iraqis than Saddam ever did and the country is not stabilized. Sunni and Shiites are still killing each other and they will never stop. Under Saddam they lived together in peace. We have never won a war and wars are never won. OBL won because he accomplished what he planned, to destory our economy and got us to come to him so he did not have to come to us to kill us. WE are getting dumber each day. Afghanistan will never be stabilized either and Pakistan is a worse threat then Iran. We never learn by our mistake and we keep making them over and over. IF Romney get elected, we will be at war with Iran and more of young men and women will be killed.

 

[JRK]

Jake I thought I was on Ignore?
What is it I am defending that is wrong?
removing mass murders?
Terrorist?
What exactly is a neo-con idea?
And exactly where is it I am trying to find my way back to?

After the dozens of times you kept saying I was on ignore and now it is fun to watch you hop up and down for being told the same thing. You are going to be on ignore, ignore, ignore, when I get around to it. You will just have to hop and up and down for now.

You guys damaged our economy, wrecked our military, and screwed up the Guard and Reserve.

You have no moral right to speak for the veterans.

That should be clear enough, hmmm?

The housing collapse damaged our economy, and the Clinton administration started it and Bush continued it. Bush did try and slow nit down, but the Democrats weren't having any of it.

I am a Veteran and I agree with JRK most of the time. What do you think the purpose of having a Reserve and a National Guard is? I also served in the Guard as well as on active duty, and in the Guard we drilled once a month and two weeks in the summer to prepare to go to war if called. We got paid to do this.

God Bless you and Thank you for your service
I hate any of you had to go any where. I think that is the reason I began this thread some time ago
I got so tired of the good things you did over there and the real reasons we went, it was not just about the terms of surrender Saddam had ignored
That was another item that upset me. The UN resolutions were in reality terms Saddam agreed to so we would not finish him off in 1991
All he ever had to do was to do what he said he would from weapons to oil for food

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jake I thought I was on Ignore?
What is it I am defending that is wrong?
removing mass murders?
Terrorist?
What exactly is a neo-con idea?
And exactly where is it I am trying to find my way back to?

After the dozens of times you kept saying I was on ignore and now it is fun to watch you hop up and down for being told the same thing. You are going to be on ignore, ignore, ignore, when I get around to it. You will just have to hop and up and down for now.

You guys damaged our economy, wrecked our military, and screwed up the Guard and Reserve.

You have no moral right to speak for the veterans.

That should be clear enough, hmmm?

The housing collapse damaged our economy, and the Clinton administration started it and Bush continued it. Bush did try and slow nit down, but the Democrats weren't having any of it.

I am a Veteran and I agree with JRK most of the time. What do you think the purpose of having a Reserve and a National Guard is? I also served in the Guard as well as on active duty, and in the Guard we drilled once a month and two weeks in the summer to prepare to go to war if called. We got paid to do this.

The mismanaged finances of the war helped to damage the economy, and Bush and our GOP no more than the Dems tried to slow it down. I served as well, Too Tall, for 12 years active duty in combat arms. I helped to train the reserves from time to time Our Guard and Reserve were not created to go on multiple missions overseas. You are vet, so you have something to say about this. Thank you.

"The UN resolutions were in reality terms Saddam agreed to", and the USA was given no legal right to enforce them through invasion by the UN.

 

[JRK]

And it cost us billions and over 5,000 lives of yound women and men, lives of millions of Iraqis destoryed and for what was none of our businesses any way. We are not the police of the world. Saddam was not a threat and we killed more Iraqis than Saddam ever did and the country is not stabilized. Sunni and Shiites are still killing each other and they will never stop. Under Saddam they lived together in peace. We have never won a war and wars are never won. OBL won because he accomplished what he planned, to destory our economy and got us to come to him so he did not have to come to us to kill us. WE are getting dumber each day. Afghanistan will never be stabilized either and Pakistan is a worse threat then Iran. We never learn by our mistake and we keep making them over and over. IF Romney get elected, we will be at war with Iran and more of young men and women will be killed.

Last year 6 million people where a victim of a violent crime in the US
Iraqis killed by Saddam loyalist, Al Qaeda and other terror groups were closer to 10,000 than 1 million
Lying about that is un ethical
WikiLeaks. Classified Iraq war logs[1][3][4][5] 109,032 deaths including 66,081 civilian deaths.[6][7] January 2004 to December 2009
These deaths were close to the same murdered in this country during the same time
Saddam killed close to 2 million during his reign of terror

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Human rights in Saddam Hussein's Iraq - Wikipedia, the free ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein's_IraqAccording to The New York Times, "he [Saddam] murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned ...
Documented human rights ... - 'Saddam's Dirty Dozen' - Number of Victims

The mission was for many reasons
WMDs
Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918Jun 29, 2006 – Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says. By Samantha L. Quigley American Forces Press Service. WASHINGTON, June 29 ...
no not the ones the UN claimed he had, nor the CIA, but there where proof he had ignored the terms he agreed to in his surrender in 1991

Al Qaeda being there in 02

Blair’s testimony directly contradicts the Democrats. Still, in the British manner, he continues to understate the case.

Intelligence compiled by American officials, as well as the testimony of known al Qaeda associates, confirms that al Qaeda established a significant presence in Iraq prior to March 2003. The evidence that al Qaeda was in Iraq before the war is simply overwhelming. And it helps to explain why the insurgency became so lethal.

Former CIA director George Tenet reveals in his own autobiography, At the Center of the Storm, some of the intelligence that backed up Powell’s presentation. More than one dozen other al Qaeda terrorists had joined Zarqawi in Baghdad. One of them was an Egyptian known as Abu Ayyub al Masri, who had served Osama bin Laden’s deputy, Ayman al Zawahiri, since the 1980s. After Zarqawi was killed in 2006, al Masri took his place as the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq. Al Masri himself was killed earlier this year, and his widow confirmed that they had moved to central Baghdad in 2002.
Al Qaeda in Iraq | The Weekly Standard

Iraq (Saddam) had 11 years to do the right thing, after 9-11 his time was up

 

[Bloodline]

It amazes me the liberal mind hates GWB but never mention the real terrorist
Saddam killed millions
tortured the same
OBL attacked this country for no other reason than to kill and maim

Yet the far left attacks the very people who permanently removed those people from earth. To claim the middle east is un stable because Saddam is dead, Al Qaeda has been broken, that is not reality

Saddam did rule with an iron hand. What business is it of the U.S.'s though what another leader does in his own sovereign country? Isn't that the definition of SOVEREIGNITY?

I take it you have just as little respect for the sovereignity of the United States as you do for that of other nations? You must be all for opening our borders and disbanding our military then?

It appears that with "friends" like you my nation doesn't even really need enemies does it?

BTW...There is very good reason to believe that this final justification that the Bushies finally settled on for invading Iraq (removing a brutal dictator) is ILLEGAL and a war crime under the principles of the Nuremberg Tribunal, 1950 number 82 Principle VI

a. Crimes against peace:

i. Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;

ii. Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

Also OBL was not from Iraq and had no ties to Saddam Hussein. Saddam was a Ba'athist who supported the rise to power of a Sunni majority in his nation. OBL was a Saudi extremist...FAR from a Ba'athist or Sunni. Hussein actually had more in common with the U.S. than he did Bin Laden.

Finally, Osama was quite prolific in his words as to WHY he found it necessary to attack us on 9-11-2001. To me his reasons were bullshit but I'm still not stupid enough to fool myself into believing that it was just a random attack of senseless violence.

Try reading his own supposed "justification" for that tragic day and see what you think.

Understanding Terrorism: Why dies Osama bin Laden hate the USA and other Western nations?

former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer, who led the CIA's hunt for Osama bin Laden summed it up this way.

"This hatred towards the U.S. arises not from Muslims being offended by what America is, but rather from their plausible perception that the things they most love and value—God, Islam, their brethren, and Muslim lands—are being attacked by America. They hate us for what we do, not who we are."

Make of that what you will but it kinda goes beyond the simplistic reason of simply to "kill and maim" doesn't it?

 

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