Why Trump won the Debate

[HikerGuy83]

Next time try reading more than the headline… this is from the link you just posted. Take note of the last section

I am amazed at this statement.

I read the same last section you did. The one that said......

In 2020, for example, the U.S. murder rate saw its largest single-year increase on record – and by 2022, it remained considerably higher than before the coronavirus pandemic.

Which, if you look at the data says......

2017 5.24
2018 4.93 A decline
2019 4.99 Still below 4
2020 6.42 Hence the statement about the climb.
2021 6.81 Biden's first year
2022 6.30 Bidens second year (still in the 6's)
2023 5.50 A "significant decline", Biden's lowest, but still higher than Trump's first three years.

So, I am a little unsure about what point you were trying to make.

This does not even begin to address the issue with reporting. In the last several years there have been concerns about reporting based on the fact that we are less prone to prosecute and people wonder why bother. Nobody knows how that factors in, but I am pretty sure we are not overreporting crime.

Trump best 3 years of the 7 we are looking at
Biden highest at 6.81
Trump 4 year average 5.05
Biden/Harris 3 year average 6.2

So, please explain to me again how he was wrong.

 

[Slade3200]

I have already said he lies. She didn't do anything on the border (and he did ask her to do something....it just wasn't tied to the immediacy of the border crossings). But calling her the border czar is a lie and I've call it as such.

Project 2025 is a lie on Harris part and an even bigger one. This is about an entire platform which is total garbage.

So, tell me....

Are you going to start saying Both lie or stop talking about Trump's lies since we've established she's a liar too.

You: Well, he lies more.

Me: He exaggerates and hyperbolically talks about everything. It's what he does and we've know that for over ten years. So, he's been at it longer. Yes.

The fact that she would push this narrative, along with the crime lie just shows.....she's a liar. Give her time.....

Harris tying Trump to 2025 is an exaggeration but not a lie. The platform was written for him and by his people. The same thing was done when he was president for judicial appointments and he followed it. So the fear of up using the playbook is a real concern. Saying that it’s his plan or that he has endorsed it… that would be a lie/exaggeration. But the concerns are real and I’d say likely that it plays a part in his admin if he wins

 

[Slade3200]

I am amazed at this statement.

I read the same last section you did. The one that said......

In 2020, for example, the U.S. murder rate saw its largest single-year increase on record – and by 2022, it remained considerably higher than before the coronavirus pandemic.

Which, if you look at the data says......

2017 5.24
2018 4.93 A decline
2019 4.99 Still below 4
2020 6.42 Hence the statement about the climb.
2021 6.81 Biden's first year
2022 6.30 Bidens second year (still in the 6's)
2023 5.50 A "significant decline", Biden's lowest, but still higher than Trump's first three years.

So, I am a little unsure about what point you were trying to make.

This does not even begin to address the issue with reporting. In the last several years there have been concerns about reporting based on the fact that we are less prone to prosecute and people wonder why bother. Nobody knows how that factors in, but I am pretty sure we are not overreporting crime.

Trump best 3 years of the 7 we are looking at
Biden highest at 6.81
Trump 4 year average 5.05
Biden/Harris 3 year average 6.2

So, please explain to me again how he was wrong.

Why did you cut off the last sentence?

“Preliminary data for 2023, however, suggests that the murder rate fell substantially last year.”

So the conclusion from your link is the overall crime rate way down but Americans believe crime is higher. I think we both know this is because of fear mongers like Trump and his followers that repeat cherry picked and outright false stats. COVID rocked the world. It screw up our economy and supply chains and murder rates had a spike and then calmed.

Yall are playing that up by lying about the big picture and you just showed in your last post your preference to cherry pick over showing everything in an honest way

 

[HikerGuy83]

Harris tying Trump to 2025 is an exaggeration but not a lie.

Equivocation to the fullest. BS

The platform was written for him and by his people.

You are doing the same thing she does.

The same thing was done when he was president for judicial appointments and he followed it.

That is an equivalency that is beyond foolish. Most every party has a platform and a playbook to some extent.

Most of the time we expect them to tell us what they are going to do.

So the fear of up using the playbook is a real concern.

For you. For the rest of us, we listen to what he rambles on about. Which isn't much.

And you continue to be disingenuous in that you are more interested in tying the controversial parts of the platform to him (some of which he has openly rebuffed).

Saying that it’s his plan or that he has endorsed it… that would be a lie/exaggeration.

Yep, it's a to say it's his plan. He has certainly endorsed things that are in it. That is not the same thing.

But the concerns are real and I’d say likely that it plays a part in his admin if he wins

When you can find him saying what he'll do, you can complain. Project 2025 has been an object focus of the Harris campaign in a very dishonest way and her statement in the debate was a flat out lie.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Why did you cut off the last sentence?

“Preliminary data for 2023, however, suggests that the murder rate fell substantially last year.”

Did you read what I wrote next to 2023 ? I was very clear in noting it was a decline.

So the conclusion from your link is the overall crime rate way down but Americans believe crime is higher.

The data from the link along with other data (just like the data I showed on murder) is that it is up. You didn't look at the ACTUAL NUMBERS I put in my link ? You can't draw that conclusion (with regard to the murder rate) using those numbers.

The reporting of crime itself has come under scrutiny (overall violent crime) so I am not in a position to say much more about that.

I think we both know this is because of fear mongers like Trump and his followers that repeat cherry picked and outright false stats

I think I posted the numbers and they are not cherry picked. They are with regard to murder. I have said as much.

Overall violent crime has held steady (per the charts I have seen) with significant upward increases in the error bars based on reporting issues.

Yall are playing that up by lying about the big picture and you just showed in your last post your preference to cherry pick over showing everything in an honest way

If you have data to the contrary, by all means share.

The big picture, as many who track it say:

“In 2019, 89% of municipal police departments, consisting of 97% of the population, submitted crime data to the FBI but by 2021, the population represented in the crime data had dropped to 65% when just 63% of the agencies reported their crime. It hasn’t improved much since and in 2023, cities such as Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York City did not submit their crime data.” ~Lies…Damn Lies…and Police Leaders

But you can't underreport murder.

Sorry....

 

[Slade3200]

You are doing the same thing she does.

You mean saying what actually happened?

 

[Slade3200]

That is an equivalency that is beyond foolish. Most every party has a platform and a playbook to some extent.

Most of the time we expect them to tell us what they are going to do.

Yup and this one is the one being made for Trump. That’s not an exaggeration. I heard the guy who managed it say exactly that while on with Mark Levin… this is Trump playbook.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

DJT lost it, badly. MSN

 

[Slade3200]

I am amazed at this statement.

I read the same last section you did. The one that said......

In 2020, for example, the U.S. murder rate saw its largest single-year increase on record – and by 2022, it remained considerably higher than before the coronavirus pandemic.

Joe Biden was inaugurated in 2021. So if the largest single year increase in murder rate came in 2020, and if your attributing blame for that on the president… well you can thank Trump

 

[Slade3200]

And you continue to be disingenuous in that you are more interested in tying the controversial parts of the platform to him (some of which he has openly rebuffed).

Of course opponents are going to run in the worst case scenarios. Talk about repealing Roe were laughed at during the 2016 campaign. Trump gained power and look what happened. So yeah. When there is a playbook drawn up with some pretty horrible stuff in it, his opponents are going to expose it and tie it to him

 

[Slade3200]

When you can find him saying what he'll do, you can complain. Project 2025 has been an object focus of the Harris campaign in a very dishonest way and her statement in the debate was a flat out lie.

Harris is going to point to 2025 as a caution to swing voters and to rally her base against Trump. Just as Trump calls her commie and Marxist to rile up his base. Welcome to politics.

If this was you big example of Harris lying during the debate then we aren’t even in the same ballpark as the Bs Trump spewed about

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

When the opponent is Trump, accusing his opponent of lying is rather juvenile.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Joe Biden was inaugurated in 2021. So if the largest single year increase in murder rate came in 2020, and if your attributing blame for that on the president… well you can thank Trump

I listed 2021 as Biden's first year.

So, how would that be attributed to Biden.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Harris is going to point to 2025 as a caution to swing voters and to rally her base against Trump. Just as Trump calls her commie and Marxist to rile up his base. Welcome to politics.

If this was you big example of Harris lying during the debate then we aren’t even in the same ballpark as the Bs Trump spewed about

A lie is a lie is a lie is a lie.

Thank you for playing.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Of course opponents are going to run in the worst case scenarios. Talk about repealing Roe were laughed at during the 2016 campaign. Trump gained power and look what happened. So yeah. When there is a playbook drawn up with some pretty horrible stuff in it, his opponents are going to expose it and tie it to him

Trump didn't repeal Roe.

The SCOTUS did.

What is the matter with you.

 

[HikerGuy83]

When the opponent is Trump, accusing his opponent of lying is rather juvenile.

If Trump lies

Harris lies

Get over it.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Yup and this one is the one being made for Trump. That’s not an exaggeration. I heard the guy who managed it say exactly that while on with Mark Levin… this is Trump playbook.

And I said Harris is related to Putin.

When Trump says it, I'll believe it.

 

[jbrownson0831]

Looks like you are in for a shock in:
View attachment 1011371

Not me, I am a real American voting to save my country.
You?

 

[Slade3200]

I listed 2021 as Biden's first year.

So, how would that be attributed to Biden.

Well first point. It’s not honest to assign responsibility to a US President for crime rates occurring in US cities. But if we are going to play the blame game… you’d have to look at the year that significant change occurred. In this case it would be 2020, when Trump was prez

 

[Slade3200]

A lie is a lie is a lie is a lie.

Thank you for playing.

And in a debate a lie like that is something that the opposing candidate would defend. Not the mods. The mods didn’t check Trump on any of his many lies about Harris that were of this nature