Zone1 White on Black Crime.

[MizMolly]

What IM2 is referencing is not "hypothesis and theories", it's science and the results of medical research. And that's "multiple degrees" not "a degree".

And when he rightly states that since you're not Black, you have never experienced the racism that was the law of this land for almost 200 years he is 100% correct. One of the benefits of being white in this country is that you never have to even have to think about Black people, let alone interact with any if you don't want to. Black people on the other hand, if we want to give ourselves the best chance to not just survive in a white society, but to thrive and achieve any goals we've set for ourselves, then we had to study white culture/society in order to lean how to navigate it, to exist in a world that at times could be very hostile to our very existence. And now people today, along with members of our Supreme Court are trying to take us back to the time when the United States was a lawfully segregated nation - not a century ago, but to the time just before the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was enacted.

Your open hostility to IM2 is very telling, that, along with the way you all allow your pet members to violate the Zone 1 rules with impunity but we get sanctioned for every little fact that we state that hurts the feelings of those members who espouse their racial belief in numerous ways.

So it's the fault of Black people that white racists have done everything that they possibly can, and are still doing everything they possibly can to keep the upper hand that they held for so long, by law, and doing all that they can to Black people to keep us from advancing, socially, economically, educationally and politically?

And most Black people have fallen victim at one point or another to the remaining vestiges of white supremacy upon which the United States was founded. It's unavoidable because in spite of the laws prohibiting it, racism still continues. That however does not equate to us being "willing" victims in the violations of others and for you to try to claim that we had some participation in what was done to our people and still to us, makes you no better than the original slavers and other white supremacists.

IM2 says it’s a fact that blacks suffer and die from stressed caused by racism. It is NOT a fact. How do you prove what causes stress other than to ask them? People make false claims all the time, which isn’t proof.

 

[IM2]

"Can it be from the stress of racism....maybe, but you can't take away all the other stresses of everyday living and leave racism as THE culprit"

That is what I said, and you blew right by that, in fact you blew right by the entire post and made up something to argue.

I read what you wrote and again, being black and knowing what effect white racism has on a person physically, allows me to dismiss your opinion. You used language that people get penalized for, decided to personally attack me about my work, education and then ran your mouth about me being a victim wanting free stuff.

So instead of following me around trying to dispute medical studies, try doing something about the people who continually troll this thread with off topic comments and other zone 1 violations

 

[hadit]

BS. Whites commit most of the violent crime. You only consider 1 crime violent and that's murder, but whites lead in assaults, rapes and battery. There are black hispanics.

Whites have been the perpetrators of most violent crime since this place was a colony.

What do you propose we do about that? Thus far, I see your complaint, but no proposed solution. How do we stop people from killing each other?

 

[IM2]

NewsVine, IM2 gets what he gives. What he gives through his hatred of whites gets nowhere...which seems fine with you.
He has not helped your cause one iota, in fact, he hurts your cause.

Meister, I don't hate whites. That's a lie. I've stated numerous times that all whites are not the problem. In fact, there are many whites here who agree with my position. You just happen to be a person who is representative of the problem. YOU and a few other right wingers can't take a black person that holds whites who practice racism accountablle. You want the black person that blames blacks for our problems.

Gven the reality of what I have seen in 30 years of work with black and other marginalized groups, I have seen what the system does in high definition. You haven't. I have battled city councils that were majority white who would annually deny black and other non white community organizations funds from tax payer funded social service dolllars. I haves sat in front of white bankers with black peoples money in their banks and business who make big money from black consumers denied non white organizations money while standing up declaring how initiatives from such communities should be supported. I have seen white landlords who owned run down ruins that sit in black neighborhoods refusing to sell shells of buildings for their appraised value while asking exhorbitant sums for those ruins while writing off depreciation to get a handout from the government. You have not.

Blacks like me(and Newsvine) help the cauuse. The meely mouthed soft shoe sellouts you want hurt the cause. Because you don't define the cause. You don't get to decide what or how blacks should say things. I don't post here to please you. And I read all kinds of nasty racist threads/posts by whites here that you ignore. In your mind no one has the right to give them back what they put out. To you the overt racism posted can't be something blacks here should respond to. To you all that is fine, blacks just have to take it for a couple more generations. That's what right wing whites said a couple of generations ago.

Work on that fragility.

 

[IM2]

What do you propose we do about that? Thus far, I see your complaint, but no proposed solution. How do we stop people from killing each other?

Why do whites such as yourself to pretend you don't know the solution?

 

[Meister]

I read what you wrote and again, being black and knowing what effect white racism has on a person physically, allows me to dismiss your opinion. You used language that people get penalized for, decided to personally attack me about my work, education and then ran your mouth about me being a victim wanting free stuff.

So instead of following me around trying to dispute medical studies, try doing something about the people who continually troll this thread with off topic comments and other zone 1 violations

You are still deflecting what I said, which you made topical.

 

[Meister]

Meister, I don't hate whites. That's a lie. I've stated numerous times that all whites are not the problem. In fact, there are many whites here who agree with my position. You just happen to be a person who is representative of the problem. YOU and a few other right wingers can't take a black person that holds whites who practice racism accountablle. You want the black person that blames blacks for our problems.

Gven the reality of what I have seen in 30 years of work with black and other marginalized groups, I have seen what the system does in high definition. You haven't. I have battled city councils that were majority white who would annually deny black and other non white community organizations funds from tax payer funded social service dolllars. I haves sat in front of white bankers with black peoples money in their banks and business who make big money from black consumers denied non white organizations money while standing up declaring how initiatives from such communities should be supported. I have seen white landlords who owned run down ruins that sit in black neighborhoods refusing to sell shells of buildings for their appraised value while asking exhorbitant sums for those ruins while writing off depreciation to get a handout from the government. You have not.

Blacks like me(and Newsvine) help the cauuse. The meely mouthed soft shoe sellouts you want hurt the cause. Because you don't define the cause. You don't get to decide what or how blacks should say things. I don't post here to please you. And I read all kinds of nasty racist threads/posts by whites here that you ignore. In your mind no one has the right to give them back what they put out. To you the overt racism posted can't be something blacks here should respond to. To you all that is fine, blacks just have to take it for a couple more generations. That's what right wing whites said a couple of generations ago.

Work on that fragility.

I believe NewsVine helps her cause.

 

[hadit]

Why do whites such as yourself to pretend you don't know the solution?

I'm asking you what you think we should do about it. I have my own ideas, but I'm asking for yours. You made the complaint, what's your solution?

 

[Lisa558]

When I was finishing my Bachelor's degree in criminology at the University of Pittsburgh in the '70's, I did a term paper that tried to calculate the likelihood that a one-time felon would ever be incarcerated. In general terms, here is what I found.

• Most crimes go un-reported. Murders are reported and auto thefts are reported, and most true robberies (most people don't know the definition of "robbery") are reported, but aggravated assault, burglary, embezzlement, petty theft, rape, vandalism, domestic violence, and the other more common crimes are either not reported, or reported but not recorded by police.
• Most reported crimes are ultimately un-solved. These numbers are inflated by police departments through the plea bargaining process. Once they get a bad guy, the DA bargains with him to cop a plea in exchange for a lighter sentence, but they have him plead guilty to many, many more crimes than he actually committed, in order for the police to claim that this larger number of crimes were "cleared by arrest/conviction."
• Most guilty defendants don't go to prison (Note the distinction between JAIL and PRISON; two different things). The prisons are crowded and judges only send criminals whose crimes are frequent, notorious, or outrageous to prison. Most people, when they are incarcerated, have been convicted multiple times before they ever go to prison. (It is claimed that Blacks go to prison with fewer actual crimes on their record than "white" people, but that is unsupported by the statistics).

The bottom line is that if you were to commit one crime - say burglarize a sporting goods store - the likelihood that you will end up in prison for that crime is lower than the likelihood that you will hit the lottery.

And the correlating fact is as follows: The chances that a factually-innocent person will be IMPRISONED are extremely low. Ninety-nine percent of prisoners claim to be factually innocent (or legally innocent, which is not the same thing), and there are many notorious cases of innocent people being imprisoned, but on a percentage basis, you are talking less than one percent. Claims of large numbers of Black men in prison for crimes they didn't commit are simply not supported by any rational analysis or data.

As stated above, Black males commit violent crimes in percentages that are dramatically out of proportion to their portion of the general population (about 6%). Blacks don't commit "most" crimes, and fortunately most of their victims are also Black, but there is no doubt that "we" have a problem and honest sociologists and psychologists know what it is, but aren't encouraged to disclose it: bastardy. When 70% of a population is raised without a father in the home...

I said that most of blacks’ problems can be traced to the 72% out of wedlock birthrate, and I was quickly called…. you guessed it…. a racist.

 

[IM2]

Allostatic load burden and racial disparities in mortality​

Abstract​

Background: Black-white disparities in mortality persist after adjustment for socioeconomic status and health behaviors. We examined whether allostatic load, the physiological profile influenced by repeated or chronic life stressors, is associated with black-white mortality disparities independent of traditional sociobehavioral risk factors.

Methods: We studied 4515 blacks and whites aged 35 to 64 years from the third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (1988-1994), using the linked mortality file, to ascertain participant deaths through 2006. We estimated unadjusted sex-specific black-white disparities in cardiovascular/diabetes-related mortality and noninjury mortality. We constructed baseline allostatic load scores based on 10 biomarkers and examined attenuation of mortality disparities in 4 sets of sex-stratified multivariate models, sequentially adding risk factors: (1) age/clinical conditions, (2) socioeconomic status (SES) variables, (3) health behaviors, and (4) allostatic load.

Results: Blacks had higher allostatic load scores than whites; for men, 2.5 vs 2.1, p < .01; and women, 2.6 vs 1.9, p < .01. For cardiovascular/diabetes-related mortality among women, the magnitude of the disparity after adjustment for other risk factors (hazard ratio

---

, 1.63; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.96-2.75) decreased after adjustment for allostatic load (HR, 1.15; 95% CI, 0.70-1.88). For noninjury mortality among women, the magnitude of the disparity after adjustment for other risk factors (HR, 1.43; 95% CI, 1.00-2.04) also decreased after adjustment for allostatic load (HR, 1.26; 95% CI, 0.90-1.78). For men, disparities were attenuated but persisted after adjustment for allostatic load.

Conclusions: Allostatic load burden partially explains higher mortality among blacks, independent of SES and health behaviors. These findings underscore the importance of chronic physiologic stressors as a negative influence on the health and lifespan of blacks in the United States.

Allostatic load burden and racial disparities in mortality - PubMed

Allostatic load burden partially explains higher mortality among blacks, independent of SES and health behaviors. These findings underscore the importance of chronic physiologic stressors as a negative influence on the health and lifespan of blacks in the United States.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Allostatic load, "the physiological profile influenced by repeated or chronic life stressors" is higher for blacks than for whites. There can be no other conclusion but the fact that this is caused by stress whites do not face and that would be racism. White on black crime.

 

[Meister]

​

​

Allostatic load, "the physiological profile influenced by repeated or chronic life stressors" is higher for blacks than for whites. There can be no other conclusion but the fact that this is caused by stress whites do not face and that would be racism. White on black crime.

That is quite a leap right there.
Racism can be/may be a factor, but it's not like a being killed by a bullet, or being knifed where it is conclusive evidence.
It would/could be a factor along with stress of a job, money problems, dietary, general health, all which could bring on
a heart attack.

 

[Lisa558]

Although IM2 likes to blame everything on racism, here are two important considerations:

1) If stress from racism causes heart attacks, why then are Jews not getting heart attacks when they in fact are more likely to suffer hate crimes from bigots than are blacks?

2) The correlation with heart disease is not race, but poverty. Those in a low SES are more likely to suffer health issues in general, including heart attacks. And blacks are more likely to have lower incomes since they have such an extremely high out-of-wedlock birthrate.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.117.029652#:~:text=Low%20SES%20has%20been%20linked,equivalent%20to%20traditional%20risk%20factors.

 

[IM2]

That is quite a leap right there.
Racism can be/may be a factor, but it's not like a being killed by a bullet, or being knifed where it is conclusive evidence.
It would/could be a factor along with stress of a job, money problems, dietary, general health, all which could bring on
a heart attack.

When you turn black and experience the chemical reactions racism causes in your body, then I will consider what you say.

Let me show you your ignorance relative to this matter.

You talk about the stress of a job and money problems. So a black person gets denied job after job due to racism and must accept a low paying job to try paying the bills. Racism creates this stressful situation on top of other racist events a person faces outside of this situation. I don't know what you think racism is, but you need to stop trying to argue with people who have lived dealing with it and who have studied how it manifests itself.

 

[Meister]

When you turn black and experience the chemical reactions racism causes in your body, then I will consider what you say.

Let me show you your ignorance relative to this matter.

You talk about the stress of a job and money problems. So a black person gets denied job after job due to racism and must accept a low paying job to try paying the bills. Racism creates this stressful situation on top of other racist events a person faces outside of this situation. I don't know what you think racism is, but you need to stop trying to argue with people who have lived dealing with it and who have studied how it manifests itself.

Live a long and happy life, IM2.
I will never be black, that's what you say. So why even have these never ending threads?

White people have hypertension and heart attacks....it's not because of racism,
it's because other stresses....that black people experience also. It doesn't all come
back to racism, that is my point, and that is irrefutable.

 

[Lisa558]

I believe NewsVine helps her cause.

What IS her cause? If it’s to show that blacks are hostile toward whites and feel entitled to reparations, then I suppose she’s effective.

 

[80zephyr]

BS. Whites commit most of the violent crime. You only consider 1 crime violent and that's murder, but whites lead in assaults, rapes and battery. There are black hispanics.

Whites have been the perpetrators of most violent crime since this place was a colony.

You don't understand ratio's, do you?

 

[80zephyr]

That's not true. Why do you guys continue to post untrue things?

Based on data compiled by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program, it found that while Black people make up 13% of the U.S. population, they were 33% of persons arrested for non-fatal violent crime (NVC), which includes rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and other assaults. Black people were 36% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes (SNVC), including rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

U.S. DOJ Statistics on Race and Ethnicity of Violent Crime Perpetrators | Prison Legal News

 

[IM2]

Based on data compiled by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program, it found that while Black people make up 13% of the U.S. population, they were 33% of persons arrested for non-fatal violent crime (NVC), which includes rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and other assaults. Black people were 36% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes (SNVC), including rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

U.S. DOJ Statistics on Race and Ethnicity of Violent Crime Perpetrators | Prison Legal News

Based on data compiled by the UCR, 2.1 percent of the American people were criminal offenders in 2020. 1.09 percent of that 2.1 percent were white and 0.6 percent were black. So try using the actual numbers of people who are criminal offenders instead of conflating percentages that actually amount to small numbers of people.

The reasonate the understanding that stress caused by white racism is the biggest cause of death for black people. Therefore since racism was supposed to have been outlawed in 1964, that makes racism a crime. Therefore white on black crime is a huge problem.

 

[MizMolly]

Based on data compiled by the UCR, 2.1 percent of the American people were criminal offenders in 2020. 1.09 percent of that 2.1 percent were white and 0.6 percent were black. So try using the actual numbers of people who are criminal offenders instead of conflating percentages that actually amount to small numbers of people.

The reasonate the understanding that stress caused by white racism is the biggest cause of death for black people. Therefore since racism was supposed to have been outlawed in 1964, that makes racism a crime. Therefore white on black crime is a huge problem.

Racism has never been outlawed. Unfortunately it’s only against the law to act on your racism.

 

[Woodznutz]

Facts supported by studies such as what I have shown. Racism causes chronic stress. You wouldn't know anything about this because you have never faced racism The continuing racism blacks face keeps blacks stressed out and creates chemical imbalances within our bodies, causing many health problems.

Studies show that consistent exposure to adversity and marginalization causes early health declines in black Americans. Racism is a stressor that triggers the body into allostasis or better understood, racism forces the body to adapt to stress. Allostasis is the process that helps us adapt to stress. Allostatic load is compiled damage to the body due to constant pressure. Such stress leads to allostatic overload, which is the point when the overall amount of stress causes health problems or death. For example, allostatic processes lead to increases in blood pressure, a leading cause of death in the black community.

So no I'm not leaving racism out of anything. When you turn black and live, I'll consider your opinion.

All ethnicities face stress, albeit for different reasons. I believe black stress is more of an economic thing than anything else. Of course, we have to study the different black economic classes to be sure.