What's the point of being a Christian when Jesus isn't coming back?

[hobelim]

The sword in the hands for killing is not the same as the refiners fire sWord out of the mouth.
Notice nobody get's killed nor do they go to war when the battle is over truth and knowledge vs ignorance and lies.
Only a great lie and abusive system needs brute force to get submission.

The sword in this verse: "He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who lifts the sword to kill is bound by the sword to be killed.") Revelation 13:10, has absolutely nothing whatever to do with violence, brute force, or any man made weapon for killing.

 

[HaShev]

Yes it can still refer to those who use the word to kill as the church did do, everything describing the beast in
Rev 13 matches the church and Even Jesus.

 

[hobelim]

Yes it can still refer to those who use the word to kill as the church did do, everything describing the beast in
Rev 13 matches the church and Even Jesus.

Yes, the first part of the verse, "He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity", makes that clear.

How many people have lost their minds and become idolators after just one sip of romanized Jesus hooch?


Jeremiah 25:15 makes it clear that the sword is curse under the appearance of a cup of wine.




To Jesus, his disciples, and the authors of the gospels written after the destruction of Jerusalem and the slaughter and exile of hundreds of thousands of Jews, way before the papacy was created and Jesus was declared to be an edible mangod, Rome, the Kittim, were the enemy.

 

[HaShev]

Agreed...I'll have to find my new wine verse commentary.
In the mean time tell me if these verses do match the events of the 70ad era..
John of Patmos said this was happening in his era.
Revelation took place in that era can be found by combining Luke 21:24 & Romans 11:25 which by history of that era, shows that Revelation 11:1-3 occurred in aprox 70ad

 

[zaangalewa]

HaShev hobelim

What do you speak about? Makes it any sense for you what you are discussing about? And what for heavens sake is your own religion?

 

[HaShev]

Found it and just added to the commentary so it all makes sense in the full scope of things.

Isaiah 24;7 It states the new wine faileth (New Testament) The Vine(Jesus is the vine read John 15; 1-5) Fadeth..
All the merry hearted (the ones who claim they are happy and good hearted) Do sigh.

Matthew said about not placing new wine (new teachings) into old bottles (old test. worshipers/ masses which followed God already), because the bottle would break. (in other words leave them alone, don’t touch what’s adhering to & Godly already)
But place the new wine (new teachings) into new bottles (those who have not learned zion or the ways of God) so both would be left unharmed.

Now did anyone listen to this? Are Missionaries leaving the old bottle alone?
Who were they to preach to? The pagans, & gentiles who have not found monothesim or Hebrew teachings. Go preach to the Hindus and the Buddists who don’t know YHWH, because why would you need to preach to those who already have YHWH unless you admit you worship the adversary?

There is also, in Luke 5:37-39, a special insight to who not to preach to.
Basically Luke is showing you not to preach your new wine to those who held the old wine...
Your to preach to those who have NO wine and give them something they never had (a taste of Hebrew Philosophy).
Also he's saying the old wine is better as we know the new wine brings people half way to the old wine to eventually all be gathered into Judaism.
As in Ezekiel's two sticks coming together as one.
In the same way that those who reject Yahweh's servants will come to worship at their feet; (Rev 3:9)
Who are YHWH's Servants (PLURAL) read Isaiah,
14 times it's talking about Israel who is the suffering servant-not Jesus. Thus the servants (Plural) are the Jews.
52:13 "Behold, My servant will prosper." Israel in the singular is called God's servant throughout Isaiah, both explicitly (Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3) and implicitly (Isa. 42:19-20; 43:10) - Other references to Israel as God's servant include Jer. 30:10 (note that in Jer. 30:17, the servant Israel is regarded by the nations as an outcast, forsaken by God , as in Isa. 53:4); Jer. 46:27-28; Ps. 136:22; Lk. 1:54.

Now since the servants are the Jews then
>those who reject Yahweh's “servants”(“who are the Jews”) will come >to worship at their (Jews )feet;
Rev 3:9)
Now Backing this up in scripture is the fact that:
Zech 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.- John 4:22-

So when people ask why did G0d Allow Morning Star/Lucifer exist, it's because Lucifer brings non Jews Half Way Home and never is intended to touch those already in the Torah's ethos.
If the false prophet didn't exist the Roman Empire would still be using other cultures deities as their means of harvesting money and power. Mithra was big there, so that would probably be the idol of choice, but now by the convergance into one fold, Rome's attempting to swallow up the Jewish revolts ended up bringing the pagan world half way to Judaism.
Hence the 2 Messiah's story and 2 Cherubs on the Ark of the Covenant are the symbols and story of the First fallen Messiah ben Joseph (Day=morning star) and the rightful Messiah Ben David (Night=Evening Star), a spirtual good cop bad cop routine fortold in the legend of the Holy City's name.

 

[zaangalewa]

What's the point in starting a stupid troll thread?

When religions make no sense it is our responsibility to call them out..

There are a million reasons Christianity is ridiculous. This is just one of them. Now do you have any value to add? Then piss off.

I don't think you have millions of reasons. I think your reason was Mary or Catherine? or ¿Monique? or whatelse was her concrete name? And I'm sure she was right to do so, Nazi.

You sound as crazy as the abortion doctor killer born again on orange is the new black.

What means "born again on orange"? And an expression like "abortion doctor" is a contradiction per se - what everyone is able to understand who replaces the word doctor with "healer".

If you have something you don't want growing inside you seek a healer.

Pregnancy is not a sickness and human beings are not cancer. And I found out the diocese Orange bought a very nice Cathedral: The Christ Cathedral.

 

[zaangalewa]

Found it and just added to the commentary so it all makes sense in the full scope of things.

Isaiah 24;7 It states the new wine faileth (New Testament) The Vine(Jesus is the vine read John 15; 1-5) Fadeth..
All the merry hearted (the ones who claim they are happy and good hearted) Do sigh.

Matthew said about not placing new wine (new teachings) into old bottles (old test. worshipers/ masses which followed God already), because the bottle would break. (in other words leave them alone, don’t touch what’s adhering to & Godly already)
But place the new wine (new teachings) into new bottles (those who have not learned zion or the ways of God) so both would be left unharmed.

Now did anyone listen to this? Are Missionaries leaving the old bottle alone?
Who were they to preach to? The pagans, & gentiles who have not found monothesim or Hebrew teachings. Go preach to the Hindus and the Buddists who don’t know YHWH, because why would you need to preach to those who already have YHWH unless you admit you worship the adversary?

There is also, in Luke 5:37-39, a special insight to who not to preach to.
Basically Luke is showing you not to preach your new wine to those who held the old wine...
Your to preach to those who have NO wine and give them something they never had (a taste of Hebrew Philosophy).
Also he's saying the old wine is better as we know the new wine brings people half way to the old wine to eventually all be gathered into Judaism.
As in Ezekiel's two sticks coming together as one.
In the same way that those who reject Yahweh's servants will come to worship at their feet; (Rev 3:9)
Who are YHWH's Servants (PLURAL) read Isaiah,
14 times it's talking about Israel who is the suffering servant-not Jesus. Thus the servants (Plural) are the Jews.
52:13 "Behold, My servant will prosper." Israel in the singular is called God's servant throughout Isaiah, both explicitly (Isa. 41:8-9; 44:1-2; 45:4; 48:20; 49:3) and implicitly (Isa. 42:19-20; 43:10) - Other references to Israel as God's servant include Jer. 30:10 (note that in Jer. 30:17, the servant Israel is regarded by the nations as an outcast, forsaken by God , as in Isa. 53:4); Jer. 46:27-28; Ps. 136:22; Lk. 1:54.

Now since the servants are the Jews then
>those who reject Yahweh's “servants”(“who are the Jews”) will come >to worship at their (Jews )feet;
Rev 3:9)
Now Backing this up in scripture is the fact that:
Zech 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.- John 4:22-

So when people ask why did G0d Allow Morning Star/Lucifer exist, it's because Lucifer brings non Jews Half Way Home and never is intended to touch those already in the Torah's ethos.
If the false prophet didn't exist the Roman Empire would still be using other cultures deities as their means of harvesting money and power. Mithra was big there, so that would probably be the idol of choice, but now by the convergance into one fold, Rome's attempting to swallow up the Jewish revolts ended up bringing the pagan world half way to Judaism.
Hence the 2 Messiah's story and 2 Cherubs on the Ark of the Covenant are the symbols and story of the First fallen Messiah ben Joseph (Day=morning star) and the rightful Messiah Ben David (Night=Evening Star), a spirtual good cop bad cop routine fortold in the legend of the Holy City's name.

As far as I can see you are not a Jew and you are not a Christian. So what is it what you are doing here? What's the sense of all this words? What's your intention?

 

[hobelim]

Agreed...I'll have to find my new wine verse commentary.
In the mean time tell me if these verses do match the events of the 70ad era..
John of Patmos said this was happening in his era.
Revelation took place in that era can be found by combining Luke 21:24 & Romans 11:25 which by history of that era, shows that Revelation 11:1-3 occurred in aprox 70ad

The scene seems to reflect material from the time of the Jewish war prior to the destruction of the temple in 70 ad.

What do you make of the obvious similarities between Rev. 11:4 and Zechariah 4?

 

[HaShev]

Rev 11:4-5 sounds like light sabers *LoL*
But John of Patmos is describing the 2 witnesses like they are high tech weapons being described, so it's some symbol but that which doesn't match Zech 4 because the 2 there are the 2 Messiahs not the witnesses.
and Zech 4:6 in the Tanakh version is non violent where Rev 11 is very violent.
Zech 4:6'Not by military force and not by physical strength, but by My spirit,' says the Lord of Hosts.

What would you say the stone is in Zech?
Temple Block Stones?

 

[zaangalewa]

...

...

Are you able to explain what you are doing here? What has this to do with what form of religion? What has this to do with what form of question? What has this to do with what form of reality?

 

[hobelim]

Rev 11:4-5 sounds like light sabers *LoL*
But John of Patmos is describing the 2 witnesses like they are high tech weapons being described, so it's some symbol but that which doesn't match Zech 4 because the 2 there are the 2 Messiahs not the witnesses.
and Zech 4:6 in the Tanakh version is non violent where Rev 11 is very violent.
Zech 4:6'Not by military force and not by physical strength, but by My spirit,' says the Lord of Hosts.

What would you say the stone is in Zech?
Temple Block Stones?

The symbols match perfectly. Both say: "These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth." Fire from their mouths consuming their enemies, like elijah calling down fire from the sky, is not about violence or high tech weapons as in 2 Esdras 13:5-11:

"I looked again and saw a crowd too large to count. They were people gathered together from all parts of the world to fight against the man who had come up out of the sea. Then I watched the man carve out a high mountain and fly up onto it. I tried to see the place or the region from which the mountain was carved, but I couldn't. Then I saw that all the people who had come together to make war against him were terrified, but they still prepared to fight him. When the man saw the great crowd advancing to attack him, he did not so much as lift a finger against them. He had no spear in his hand, no weapon at all. The only thing I saw was what looked like a stream of fire coming out of his mouth. He sent a flaming wind from his lips and a storm of sparks from his tongue. The stream of fire, the flaming wind, and the great storm combined and swept down on the crowd that was coming to attack him, and burnt them all up. In a single moment, that crowd too large to count vanished, and there was nothing left but powdery ashes and the smell of smoke."


The capstone is symbolic of the second messiah which shows that the temple under construction in the vision is not about a man made building. Jesus compared himself to the foundation stone, the first messiah and whatever you believe or don't believe Jesus fully expected to return to fulfill the prophecies of the second appearance of a messiah.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last."

 

[zaangalewa]

Rev 11:4-5 sounds like light sabers *LoL*
But John of Patmos is describing the 2 witnesses like they are high tech weapons being described, so it's some symbol but that which doesn't match Zech 4 because the 2 there are the 2 Messiahs not the witnesses.
and Zech 4:6 in the Tanakh version is non violent where Rev 11 is very violent.
Zech 4:6'Not by military force and not by physical strength, but by My spirit,' says the Lord of Hosts.

What would you say the stone is in Zech?
Temple Block Stones?

The symbols match perfectly. Both say: "These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth." Fire from their mouths consuming their enemies, like elijah calling down fire from the sky, is not about violence or high tech weapons as in 2 Esdras 13:5-11:

"I looked again and saw a crowd too large to count. They were people gathered together from all parts of the world to fight against the man who had come up out of the sea. Then I watched the man carve out a high mountain and fly up onto it. I tried to see the place or the region from which the mountain was carved, but I couldn't. Then I saw that all the people who had come together to make war against him were terrified, but they still prepared to fight him. When the man saw the great crowd advancing to attack him, he did not take up any weapons. The only thing I saw was what looked like a stream of fire coming out of his mouth. He sent a flaming wind from his lips and a storm of sparks from his tongue. The stream of fire, the flaming wind, and the great storm combined and swept down on the crowd that was coming to attack him, and burnt them all up. In a single moment, that crowd too large to count vanished, and there was nothing left but powdery ashes and the smell of smoke."


The capstone is symbolic of the second messiah which shows that the temple under construction in the vision is not about a man made building. Jesus compared himself to the foundation stone, the first messiah and whatever you believe or don't believe Jesus fully expected to return to fulfill the prophecies of a second messiah.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last."

What are you speaking about?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I understand Judaism. The existence or lack thereof of Yhwh wouldn't really impact the culture, geopolitics, or tribal/superiority mindset. It frankly doesn't matter to the millions of Jews out there that there is never going to be a messiah or world to come. None of that effects the day to day. I can understand Islam for the exact same reasons. Christianity, on the other hand, baffles me. It doesn't create tribal ties between people. It very explicitly doesn't have a political message, though it's often used for political purposes anyway. It's solely focused on mythological events in the past leading up to an imminent grand supernatural finale in which each generation of Christians firmly believes they will play a leading role. Judaism doesn't really give a **** about the world to come. Islam says it'll happen when it happens. Only Christians expect the end to come "this" generation, every generation for roughly the past 80. I just don't see the point in joining a religion like that that bases itself entirely around claims that are so obviously untrue.

He is waiting for the class of 83 to die off and join him, to lead the fight

Breakfast Club - Don't You (Forget About Me) *Mus…:

 

[hobelim]

What are you speaking about?

Ha Shev believes that the Jesus that you worship and eat for spiritual life in the form of a lifeless matzo made by human hands is Satanic in origin, a Roman fabrication, a conglomerate of many preexisting mythical pagan gods and heathen practices given the name of Jesus in order to bury his seditious teachings under a mountain of blasphemy and I agree.

What I pointed out is that the gospels were written by Jews and gentile believers in the Jesus that actually existed centuries before Rome usurped authority over scripture. The stories were written in a way that deliberately confounded the roman enemy and all oppressing nations with a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine.

Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them." Jeremiah 25:15

Jesus said, "I have not come to bring peace but a sword.", and, "Take this cup of wine and drink it."...... Ring a bell?

I said this and HaShev agreed,

"To Jesus, his disciples, and the authors of the gospels written after the destruction of Jerusalem and the slaughter and exile of hundreds of thousands of Jews, way before the papacy was created and Jesus was declared to be an edible mangod, Rome, the Kittim, were the enemy."

 

[zaangalewa]

7

What are you speaking about?

Ha Shev believes that the Jesus that you worship and eat for spiritual life in the form of a lifeless matzo made by human hands is Satanic in origin, a Roman fabrication, a conglomerate of many preexisting mythical pagan gods and heathen practices given the name of Jesus in order to bury his seditious teachings under a mountain of blasphemy and I agree.

I would say the modern world today suffers a lack of Catholicism (Universality).

What I pointed out is that the gospels were written by Jews and gentile believers in the Jesus that actually existed centuries before Rome usurped authority over scripture. The stories were written in a way that deliberately confounded the roman enemy and all oppressing nations with a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine.

Jews were citizens of Rome since the early 3rd century (about 1800 years now). The emperors of the holy empire were responsible for the Jews and saw themsleve not only in the followership of the roman empire but also in the followership of the jewish kings.

Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine

I never drink alcohol. It's not good to poison a body with this neurotoxin and to hurt the empathy for the spirit of god.

and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them." Jeremiah 25:15

Jesus said, "I have not come to bring peace but a sword." Ring a bell?

The bell rings: "Misinterpretation or intentional ignorance?"

-----
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me. The one who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and the one who receives a righteous person because he is a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. And whoever gives one of these little ones even a cup of cold water because he is a disciple, truly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward."
-----

-----

I said this and HaShev agreed,

"To Jesus, his disciples, and the authors of the gospels written after the destruction of Jerusalem and the slaughter and exile of hundreds of thousands of Jews, way before the papacy was created and Jesus was declared to be an edible mangod, Rome, the Kittim, were the enemy."

I'm a Roman as well as I am a Jew, Germanic and Celt. My roots are not fighting with each other - my roots give me wide wings.

 

[HaShev]

Hobe , sorry to say the first & last and ever after speach is stolen from Zoroaster. You can search it if you don't believe me and also look up the "John Apochryphon" if you want whereby John admits they borrowed MUCH from Zoroastrianism..(hence all the physical light mysticsm).

Jesus isn't the capstone because Jesus isn't Shalem (completeness) which the capstone represents (even on our dollar bill it represents that). Jesus was made the nemesis of Shalem in Rev 22:16.
Jesus isn't involved in the Temple building movements nor did he gather all those orgs into one collective.
He did however cause and glee in the opposite of building the temple though.

I can't read Zaangs folly when logged in, because I have them iggied. Youtube spamer and forum troll reasons.

 

[zaangalewa]

Hobe , sorry to say the first & last and ever after speach is stolen from Zoroaster. You can search it if you don't believe me and also look up the "John Apochryphon" if you want whereby John admits they borrowed MUCH from Zoroastrianism..(hence all the physical light mysticsm).

Jesus isn't the capstone because Jesus isn't Shalem (completeness) which the capstone represents (even on our dollar bill it represents that). Jesus was made the nemesis of Shalem in Rev 22:16.
Jesus isn't involved in the Temple building movements nor did he gather all those orgs into one collective.
He did however cause and glee in the opposite of building the temple though.

I can't read Zaangs folly when logged in, because I have them iggied. Youtube spamer and forum troll reasons.

Letters and words - even laws - are dead things. The spirit lives not in words and letters - the spirit lives in the souls of all things - in his word of creation. No one forces you to enlarge your spiritual power. But the bloody hate of the world - your hate too - allows not to ignore hateful ignorants like you any longer. You are not a Jew - you are not a Christian. You don't read the bible inspired - your read the bible like a dead thing - you do not even really read - or whyelse do you use the word "capstone" instead of "cornerstone" for example? And why do you fight instead to follow the way of god who leads you in your mistakes to the text:

So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation — if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

 

[hobelim]

Hobe , sorry to say the first & last and ever after speach is stolen from Zoroaster. You can search it if you don't believe me and also look up the "John Apochryphon" if you want whereby John admits they borrowed MUCH from Zoroastrianism..(hence all the physical light mysticsm).

Jesus isn't the capstone because Jesus isn't Shalem (completeness) which the capstone represents (even on our dollar bill it represents that). Jesus was made the nemesis of Shalem in Rev 22:16.
Jesus isn't involved in the Temple building movements nor did he gather all those orgs into one collective.
He did however cause and glee in the opposite of building the temple though.

I can't read Zaangs folly when logged in, because I have them iggied. Youtube spamer and forum troll reasons.

Of course many concepts and symbols were borrowed from other religions. So what. The same is true for the Torah. However the symbolism of darkness vs light and 'the first and the last' have completely Jewish implications as well. But if the intention of Jesus was to curse the nations in fulfillment of the prophecy of Jeremiah 25 then what better bait than to offer a cup of wine in the name of the God of Abraham which corresponded perfectly to existing mythraic practices and beliefs of partaking in the divine nature of Mithra under the species of wine to accomplish that exactly like Moses was commanded by God to make a bronze statue of a serpent, a pagan deity, to give to the people to turn to for healing as a test which if failed resulted in idolatry and subsequently condemnation which it did until Hezekiah came, did what was right in God's eyes, and destroyed it.

Jesus even compared himself to the serpent that Moses lifted up in the wilderness during the time of testing and exhorted his disciples to pray to be spared 'the test' many times after he said, "Take this cup of wine and drink it"... which shows that Jesus knew in advance that worship involving his name would degenerate into idolatry, as it has.


And of course Jesus was not involved in any Temple movement which was and still is a colossal waste of time consequent to the perverse misinterpretation of the term 'sanctuary of God'.

 

[hobelim]

I never drink alcohol. It's not good to poison a body with this neurotoxin and to hurt the empathy for the spirit of god.

LOL....Whoop di doo.

Jesus, with a reputation for being a drunk, would never have partied with you.

"hurt the empathy for the spirit of God" my ass.