Was there a holocaust?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Indofred
  • Start date Start date
Anyone that denies the Holocaust happened is....mentally unstable. Of course it happened. And kudos to those who speak the truth about it and stand firm.
 
Not only did it happen, it could happen again.

That's why denial is so dangerous.
The numbers killed are in debate but was clearly in the millions and this simple fact should be a massive reason to remember and make bloody sure it never happens again.

As for "There's an awful lot of evidence for it to be faked."; get fucked.
There's a lot of evidence to say it actually happened.

On a personal note; my Polish uncle escaped a labour camp and managed to get to Britain.
His stories weren't bloody faked so screw anyone who says the thing was a fantasy.
 
Not only did it happen, it could happen again.

That's why denial is so dangerous.
The numbers killed are in debate but was clearly in the millions and this simple fact should be a massive reason to remember and make bloody sure it never happens again.

As for "There's an awful lot of evidence for it to be faked."; get fucked.
There's a lot of evidence to say it actually happened.

On a personal note; my Polish uncle escaped a labour camp and managed to get to Britain.
His stories weren't bloody faked so screw anyone who says the thing was a fantasy.

It is why the current trend of people to see Islam as an enemy, painting almost 2 billion people with the same brush, is dangerous. It always has to be remembered that it was Hitler or his henchmen who killed those millions of people. It was ordinary folks who told their troubles were the blame of people they didn't even know. It allowed them to turn human beings into things, which is what I see happening quite a bit today.
 
Not only did it happen, it could happen again.

That's why denial is so dangerous.
The numbers killed are in debate but was clearly in the millions and this simple fact should be a massive reason to remember and make bloody sure it never happens again.

As for "There's an awful lot of evidence for it to be faked."; get fucked.
There's a lot of evidence to say it actually happened.

On a personal note; my Polish uncle escaped a labour camp and managed to get to Britain.
His stories weren't bloody faked so screw anyone who says the thing was a fantasy.

It is why the current trend of people to see Islam as an enemy, painting almost 2 billion people with the same brush, is dangerous. It always has to be remembered that it was Hitler or his henchmen who killed those millions of people. It was ordinary folks who told their troubles were the blame of people they didn't even know. It allowed them to turn human beings into things, which is what I see happening quite a bit today.

Just an observation...
After the war, the German people wanted to make amends as much as they could, so they banned hate speech, Nazi symbolism, Holocaust denial etc and generally adopted sack-cloth and ashes.
It seems to me that the wider Muslim community, which I believe overwhelmingly consists of good, law-abiding, decent people, needs to do something similar.
 
That's why denial is so dangerous.
The numbers killed are in debate but was clearly in the millions and this simple fact should be a massive reason to remember and make bloody sure it never happens again.

As for "There's an awful lot of evidence for it to be faked."; get fucked.
There's a lot of evidence to say it actually happened.

On a personal note; my Polish uncle escaped a labour camp and managed to get to Britain.
His stories weren't bloody faked so screw anyone who says the thing was a fantasy.

It is why the current trend of people to see Islam as an enemy, painting almost 2 billion people with the same brush, is dangerous. It always has to be remembered that it was Hitler or his henchmen who killed those millions of people. It was ordinary folks who told their troubles were the blame of people they didn't even know. It allowed them to turn human beings into things, which is what I see happening quite a bit today.

Just an observation...
After the war, the German people wanted to make amends as much as they could, so they banned hate speech, Nazi symbolism, Holocaust denial etc and generally adopted sack-cloth and ashes.
It seems to me that the wider Muslim community, which I believe overwhelmingly consists of good, law-abiding, decent people, needs to do something similar.

Slightly different circumstances. Frankly, I am opposed to banning speech and ideas. But let's take that notion a step further. The US government installed the Shah of Iran in power and maintained that regime until a revolution tossed him out. Iraq was pretty much a creation of Britain. A good hunk of the Muslim world was a colony of western powers up through the middle of the last century. We armed the people in Afghanistan to fight the Russians and then just walked away afterwards, leaving a political vacuum. There is a lot of residual animosity from all of that. Do you also suggest we adopt sack-cloth and ashes for our hand in the current situation?
 
It is why the current trend of people to see Islam as an enemy, painting almost 2 billion people with the same brush, is dangerous. It always has to be remembered that it was Hitler or his henchmen who killed those millions of people. It was ordinary folks who told their troubles were the blame of people they didn't even know. It allowed them to turn human beings into things, which is what I see happening quite a bit today.

Just an observation...
After the war, the German people wanted to make amends as much as they could, so they banned hate speech, Nazi symbolism, Holocaust denial etc and generally adopted sack-cloth and ashes.
It seems to me that the wider Muslim community, which I believe overwhelmingly consists of good, law-abiding, decent people, needs to do something similar.

Slightly different circumstances. Frankly, I am opposed to banning speech and ideas. But let's take that notion a step further. The US government installed the Shah of Iran in power and maintained that regime until a revolution tossed him out. Iraq was pretty much a creation of Britain. A good hunk of the Muslim world was a colony of western powers up through the middle of the last century. We armed the people in Afghanistan to fight the Russians and then just walked away afterwards, leaving a political vacuum. There is a lot of residual animosity from all of that. Do you also suggest we adopt sack-cloth and ashes for our hand in the current situation?

Fair enough.
There is an obvious difference - Germany is a sovereign country whereas Islam transcends borders.
My real point though is that the battle against the extremists needs to come from within the community of Islam - without their assistance the 'War Against Terror' by the West is never going to be "won".
 
Just an observation...
After the war, the German people wanted to make amends as much as they could, so they banned hate speech, Nazi symbolism, Holocaust denial etc and generally adopted sack-cloth and ashes.
It seems to me that the wider Muslim community, which I believe overwhelmingly consists of good, law-abiding, decent people, needs to do something similar.

Slightly different circumstances. Frankly, I am opposed to banning speech and ideas. But let's take that notion a step further. The US government installed the Shah of Iran in power and maintained that regime until a revolution tossed him out. Iraq was pretty much a creation of Britain. A good hunk of the Muslim world was a colony of western powers up through the middle of the last century. We armed the people in Afghanistan to fight the Russians and then just walked away afterwards, leaving a political vacuum. There is a lot of residual animosity from all of that. Do you also suggest we adopt sack-cloth and ashes for our hand in the current situation?

Fair enough.
There is an obvious difference - Germany is a sovereign country whereas Islam transcends borders.
My real point though is that the battle against the extremists needs to come from within the community of Islam - without their assistance the 'War Against Terror' by the West is never going to be "won".

I think that does happen. However, we have to remember that extremists do not just pop into existence. They are made. Mostly by trauma. If we drop a bomb on a village, we make extremists. When we invade someone's land to liberate them, we make extremists. So I would agree with you that this can't be a one sided thing, Muslims must be involved. However, to approach the problem with violence and to expect that to be a solution to violence is utterly lacking in logic.

There are people in this country who hate Obama with all of their being. They would rejoice if he died. They clamor for his removal. However, if Canada were to invade us for the purpose of removing Obama, do you think any of those folks would thank them? Whether American or Iraqi, Christian or Muslim, people are people. If you help someone build a home - you make a friend. If you blow up their home - you make an enemy. That is a simple fact we seem to keep forgetting.
 
Last edited:
Anyone that denies the Holocaust happened is....mentally unstable. Of course it happened. And kudos to those who speak the truth about it and stand firm.

well that leaves out the entire country of Great Britain.
 
15th post
Slightly different circumstances. Frankly, I am opposed to banning speech and ideas. But let's take that notion a step further. The US government installed the Shah of Iran in power and maintained that regime until a revolution tossed him out. Iraq was pretty much a creation of Britain. A good hunk of the Muslim world was a colony of western powers up through the middle of the last century. We armed the people in Afghanistan to fight the Russians and then just walked away afterwards, leaving a political vacuum. There is a lot of residual animosity from all of that. Do you also suggest we adopt sack-cloth and ashes for our hand in the current situation?

Fair enough.
There is an obvious difference - Germany is a sovereign country whereas Islam transcends borders.
My real point though is that the battle against the extremists needs to come from within the community of Islam - without their assistance the 'War Against Terror' by the West is never going to be "won".

I think that does happen. However, we have to remember that extremists do not just pop into existence. They are made. Mostly by trauma. If we drop a bomb on a village, we make extremists. When we invade someone's land to liberate them, we make extremists. So I would agree with you that this can't be a one sided thing, Muslims must be involved. However, to approach the problem with violence and to expect that to be a solution to violence is utterly lacking in logic.

There are people in this country who hate Obama with all of their being. They would rejoice if he died. They clamor for his removal. However, if Canada were to invade us for the purpose of removing Obama, do you think any of those folks would thank them? Whether American or Iraqi, Christian or Muslim, people are people. If you help someone build a home - you make a friend. If you blow up their home - you make an enemy. That is a simple fact we seem to keep forgetting.

All true.
 
I've never seen a Muslim open a thread like this but I say congrats to Fred. I pray you are the avante gard beginning of a new direction for Islam. It is time!

I say go for it, Fred! Cut that path where no one before you has gone and make one! I believe you can make a difference, Fred, and a difference for your religion as well. It only takes one person to get something started. I am a firm believer one person can make a difference. Yes. They can.

- Jeremiah
 
Muslim Religious Leaders Condemn Holocaust Denial - The Jakarta Globe

It seems many Muslim leaders share my opinion of it as fact.

Do you agree?

Really Fred?:eusa_hand:

Yes really.

We have to remember these terrible events so extremists of whatever sort can't succeed in repeating them.
Various groups want to deny the holocaust in order to forward their lousy agenda that would surely include a repeat of Hitler's evil.

I really don't give a shit what the group's political/religious flavour is; at the end of the day they always want to do a bit of the same to someone - be it Jews or whoever.

These nasty people are always out there and we must never allow them to get their rubbish over as if it were fact.
 
Back
Top Bottom