Dante
"The Libido for the Ugly"
Was the PPACA -- Known as Obamacare, Ruled a Tax? Uncensored2008 says it was, and she/he is not alone in stating this, but is it factual and truthful? Do you think Obamacare was ruled, a tax?
Was the PPACA -- Known as Obamacare, Ruled a Tax?
- Thread starter Dante
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depotoo
Diamond Member
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Supreme Court upholds Obamacare individual mandate as a tax - ABC News
the justices gave them the term `needed-tax for it to be upheld, if this is what you are asking.
the justices gave them the term `needed-tax for it to be upheld, if this is what you are asking.
depotoo
Diamond Member
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The mandate payment, if you don't comply was labeled a tax by Roberts, a needed change to make it legal as the wh lawyers had not labeled it such.
Right now you are just being pissy when you state it the way you did. The mandate penalty within ppaca is a tax.
If you think others will think you overly smart when you question it as you did, no, they won't. Most will see you are just being a pissy smart ass.
Right now you are just being pissy when you state it the way you did. The mandate penalty within ppaca is a tax.
If you think others will think you overly smart when you question it as you did, no, they won't. Most will see you are just being a pissy smart ass.
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
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The mandate is a tax
Nobody has ruled the rest of Obamacare to be a tax
Nobody has ruled the rest of Obamacare to be a tax
Contumacious
Radical Freedom
Yes, indeed it was. Which would make it Unconstitutional anyway because the Bill originated in the Senate.
.
Seems you have a problem with him not saying it was the individual mandate ruled as a tax.
Most people on this board understands what he and many others say about it being ruled a tax.
They know it means the Supreme Court ruling and not the whole bill.
Is the actual Affordable Health Care Act itself a tax?
No, but it should be because of all the new taxes to pay for it.
The New PPACA is full of taxes.
The Supreme Court ruled the individual mandate as a tax.
An increase in the payroll tax on wages and a tax on investment income, including interest, dividends and capital gains.
Tax on Health Insurers
Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans
“Black liquor” tax hike
Tax on Innovator Drug Companies
Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers
High Medical Bills Tax
Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka “Special Needs Kids Tax
Medicine Cabinet Tax
Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D (
Codification of the “economic substance doctrine
Tax on Indoor Tanning Services
HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike
Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike
Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals
Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (Took effect in Jan. 2012): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns
Full List of Obamacare Tax Hikes Listed by Size of Tax Hike Americans for Tax Reform
Most people on this board understands what he and many others say about it being ruled a tax.
They know it means the Supreme Court ruling and not the whole bill.
Is the actual Affordable Health Care Act itself a tax?
No, but it should be because of all the new taxes to pay for it.
The New PPACA is full of taxes.
The Supreme Court ruled the individual mandate as a tax.
An increase in the payroll tax on wages and a tax on investment income, including interest, dividends and capital gains.
Tax on Health Insurers
Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans
“Black liquor” tax hike
Tax on Innovator Drug Companies
Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers
High Medical Bills Tax
Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka “Special Needs Kids Tax
Medicine Cabinet Tax
Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D (
Codification of the “economic substance doctrine
Tax on Indoor Tanning Services
HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike
Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike
Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals
Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (Took effect in Jan. 2012): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns
Full List of Obamacare Tax Hikes Listed by Size of Tax Hike Americans for Tax Reform
Tom Sweetnam
Platinum Member
Anytime the federal government reaches into your pocket and grabs your wallet and helps itself, is NOT a tax?? I beg to differ. There was an interesting program on Newsmax yesterday regarding American corporate tax codes, which are not only the most complex on the planet, but are in fact so convoluted that even Jacob Lew, Secretary of the Treasury (and other Secretaries preceding him) have a disclaimer under their signatures effectively stating that they don't accept any culpability for their signed edicts because they don't understand them, and neither does anyone else. True story.
Dante
"The Libido for the Ugly"
- Thread starter
- #10
The merits of the case
from the ruling: Chief Justice Roberts:
The Government advances two theories for the proposition that Congress had constitutional authority to enact the individual mandate.
First, the Government argues that Congress had the power to enact the mandate under the Commerce Clause. Under that theory, Congress may order individuals to buy health insurance because the failure to do so affects interstate commerce, and could undercut the Affordable Care Act’s other reforms.
Second, the Government argues that if the commerce power does not support the mandate, we should nonetheless uphold it as an exercise of Congress’s power to tax. According to the Government, even if Congress lacks the power to direct individuals to buy insurance, the only effect of the individual mandate is to raise taxes on those who do not do so, and thus the law may be upheld as a tax.
...
Just as the individual mandate cannot be sustained as a law regulating the substantial effects of the failure to purchase health insurance, neither can it be upheld as a “necessary and proper” component of the insurance reforms. The commerce power thus does not authorize the mandate. Accord, post, at 4–16 (joint opinion of SCALIA, KENNEDY, THOMAS, and ALITO, JJ., dissenting).
...
Because the Commerce Clause does not support the individual mandate, it is necessary to turn to the Government’s second argument: that the mandate may be upheld as within Congress’s enumerated power to “lay and collect Taxes.” Art. I, §8,cl. 1.
...
...the Government asks us to read the mandate not as ordering individuals to buy insurance, but rather as imposing a tax on those who do not buy that product.
...
The Government asks us to interpret the mandate as imposing a tax, if it would otherwise violate the Constitution. Granting the Act the full measure of deference owed to federal statutes, it can be so read, for the reasons set forth below.
here CJ Roberts addresses the penalty/tax function and reasoning: PPACA ACA Obamacare Mandate Shared Responsibility Payment Tax Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion ForumFirst, the Government argues that Congress had the power to enact the mandate under the Commerce Clause. Under that theory, Congress may order individuals to buy health insurance because the failure to do so affects interstate commerce, and could undercut the Affordable Care Act’s other reforms.
Second, the Government argues that if the commerce power does not support the mandate, we should nonetheless uphold it as an exercise of Congress’s power to tax. According to the Government, even if Congress lacks the power to direct individuals to buy insurance, the only effect of the individual mandate is to raise taxes on those who do not do so, and thus the law may be upheld as a tax.
...
Just as the individual mandate cannot be sustained as a law regulating the substantial effects of the failure to purchase health insurance, neither can it be upheld as a “necessary and proper” component of the insurance reforms. The commerce power thus does not authorize the mandate. Accord, post, at 4–16 (joint opinion of SCALIA, KENNEDY, THOMAS, and ALITO, JJ., dissenting).
...
Because the Commerce Clause does not support the individual mandate, it is necessary to turn to the Government’s second argument: that the mandate may be upheld as within Congress’s enumerated power to “lay and collect Taxes.” Art. I, §8,cl. 1.
...
...the Government asks us to read the mandate not as ordering individuals to buy insurance, but rather as imposing a tax on those who do not buy that product.
...
The Government asks us to interpret the mandate as imposing a tax, if it would otherwise violate the Constitution. Granting the Act the full measure of deference owed to federal statutes, it can be so read, for the reasons set forth below.
Dante
"The Libido for the Ugly"
- Thread starter
- #11
really?
PPACA ACA Obamacare Mandate Shared Responsibility Payment Tax Page 2 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
It is of course true that the Act describes the payment as a “penalty,” not a “tax.”
But while that label is fatal to the application of the Anti-Injunction Act, supra, at 12–13, it does not determine whether the payment may be viewed as an exercise of Congress’s taxing power.
It is up to Congress whether to apply the Anti-Injunction Act to any particular statute, so it makes sense to be guided by Congress’s choice of label on that question.
That choice does not, however, control whether an exaction is within Congress’s constitutional power to tax.
But while that label is fatal to the application of the Anti-Injunction Act, supra, at 12–13, it does not determine whether the payment may be viewed as an exercise of Congress’s taxing power.
It is up to Congress whether to apply the Anti-Injunction Act to any particular statute, so it makes sense to be guided by Congress’s choice of label on that question.
That choice does not, however, control whether an exaction is within Congress’s constitutional power to tax.
depotoo
Diamond Member
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Dante, quit beating around the bush. You seem to think you have a superior knowledge that everyone is missing. What is it? Continually posting others interpretations of the law here and in your other thread appears as nothing more than minutia obsession to everyone.
All that matters to most is the interpretation by Roberts, allowing those that don't carry insurance to be hit with a tax.
All that matters to most is the interpretation by Roberts, allowing those that don't carry insurance to be hit with a tax.
Dante
"The Libido for the Ugly"
- Thread starter
- #13
Roberts "The Affordable Care Act’s requirement that certain individuals pay a financial penalty for not obtaining health insurance may reasonably be characterized as a tax. Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness."
Dante
"The Libido for the Ugly"
- Thread starter
- #14
yes. thank you for being more exact
But what you've just said is NOT what you or others have been saying. The unintentional (as well as intentional) misuse words and terms is how it is possible to have everyone running around saying different things
depotoo
Diamond Member
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Sooo, are you saying you want to find a way this can be abolished? Or, in your great wisdom, think you have the answer Congress needs to do just that, and wish they would take notice.
Dante
"The Libido for the Ugly"
- Thread starter
- #16
Yes, and the Court ruled on a few issues.
The actual words in the law were not changed by the Court ruling. The law calls for a mandate that contains a shared responsibility payment. For constitutional purposes the Court ruled the penalty within the mandate functions as a tax.
Are you a strict constructionist? A texualist? When you read the law, does the PPACA use 'tax'?
depotoo
Diamond Member
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Seriously? In this case you are simply being a smart ass. Also, please note, most every article on it it states the mandate.
tomato, tomato (short a), in that case and this, people know what it is
tomato, tomato (short a), in that case and this, people know what it is
yes. thank you for being more exact
But what you've just said is NOT what you or others have been saying. The unintentional (as well as intentional) misuse words and terms is how it is possible to have everyone running around saying different things
Dante
"The Libido for the Ugly"
- Thread starter
- #20
Seriously? In this case you are simply being a smart ass. Also, please note, most every article on it it states the mandate.
tomato, tomato (short a), in that case and this, people know what it is
yes. thank you for being more exact
But what you've just said is NOT what you or others have been saying. The unintentional (as well as intentional) misuse words and terms is how it is possible to have everyone running around saying different things
the media has been dumbed down so much, they often refer to climate science as weather
headlines substitute for content with many people
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