Was the 25th Amendment Miswritten?

[Meathead]

Biden's severely deteriorated cognition brings the question in the validity of the 25th amendment as written. It vests too much power in those aligned with the president who for political reasons failed to invoke it. While the rest of the word bore witness to the obvious decline of the ex-president and despite the equally obvious threat to the security of the country, the VP and the cabinet stood by until it could not be denied in the wake of Biden's debate with Trump. If Biden had had a rare lucid day and won the election, I don't doubt that by this time into his second term Kamala would have succeeded him with the invocation the 25th.

The point is the country was without a cogent leader for years. In light of this the power to invoke the 25th should be by say a 2/3 to a 3/4 majority of the senate who would have to face electoral consequences, rather than those who would simply go on MSNBC and/or write books while denying the obvious deterioration of their former boss, the president of the United States.

 

[Eman623]

You don't need the 25th to remove an unwilling POTUS. Impeachment only takes 50%+1 in the House and 2/3rds of the Senate

 

[1srelluc]

That would be the 19th.

There's a reason that suffer is in sufferage.....We have suffered ever since.

 

[Meathead]

You don't need the 25th to remove an unwilling POTUS. Impeachment only takes 50%+1 in the House and 2/3rds of the Senate

We've had four impeachments, none of which passed. Impeachment is for "crimes and misdemeanours" This is something else.

 

[Eman623]

We've had four impeachments, none of which passed. Impeachment is for "crimes and misdemeanours" This is something else.

The bar for impeachment is lower than the bar for a 25A removal. If we can't get 2/3rds for impeachment, why would anyone think we can get 2/3rds for 25A?

 

[Meathead]

The bar for impeachment is lower than the bar for a 25A removal. If we can't get 2/3rds for impeachment, why would anyone think we can get 2/3rds for 25A?

Because the cost to political careers of senators that voted Biden was cogent, for example, would be much higher than a vote that Trump, for example, did not commit an impeachable offense.

Simply, the 25th vests too much power to the party of the president without sanction for choosing to ignore it for political purposes, rendering it useless as well illustrated in the last administration.

 

[Eman623]

Because the cost to political careers of senators that voted Biden was cogent, for example, would be much higher than a vote that Trump, for example, did not commit an impeachable offense.

What cost? Any Rep or Senator that voted to support a 25A bid against a sitting president of their own party would face serious primary challenges. Any that voted to keep the senile fools would be safe in their jobs forever.

Simply, the 25th vests too much power to the party of the president without sanction for choosing to ignore it for political purposes, rendering it useless as well illustrated in the last administration.

The 25A was never intended to be a vehicle to remove an unwilling sitting president unless he or she is so hugely incapacitated as to be unable to perform basic functions like speaking or thinking.

Lowering the bar would just allow for functioning presidents to be removed by hostile congresses under the guise of incapacity.

 

[Meathead]

The 25A was never intended to be a vehicle to remove an unwilling sitting president unless he or she is so hugely incapacitated as to be unable to perform basic functions like speaking or thinking.

Exactly, that's where they failed. You cannot have a president who has "good days and bad days" as they say of the aged. Occasional lucidity is not an option.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The highlighted section is where we should exert our efforts.

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Right now, this is the president's Cabinet. Why not change this to a vote of Congress or perhaps even the SC justice?
Perhaps a 2/3 requirement could be placed on those bodies. Perhaps requiring both? That would limit political removals under a guise of mental incompetence and eliminate the bias of the Cabinet officers who were appointed by said President.

 

[BackAgain]

The 25th is predicated on an assumption. Specifically? It assumes that a President’s cabinet would be serious enough in a real world setting to lay politics aside and behave properly for the national good.

I see no evidence in modern day politicians to support that assumption.

 

[Eman623]

Exactly, that's where they failed. You cannot have a president who has "good days and bad days" as they say of the aged. Occasional lucidity is not an option.

And you can't have a functioning president who is removed from office under the guise of incapacity.

Of the two options, the 2nd one seems worse to me since that would be a direct threat to democracy. We've had incapacitated presidents before and we got through it okay.

 

[Meathead]

Of the two options, the 2nd one seems worse to me since that would be a direct threat to democracy. We've had incapacitated presidents before and we got through it okay.

We were lucky, but why do you think the 25th was added? Wilson was not governing at the end of his term. It is doubtful Biden was as well.

Political expedience by vesting its power in the party of the president renders it useless as very recently demonstrated.

 

[Eman623]

We were lucky, but why do you think the 25th was added? Wilson was not governing at the end of his term. It is doubtful Biden was as well.

It was passed because Reagan was shot and there was no clear process for Bush I to assume command.

Political expedience by vesting its power in the party of the president renders it useless as very recently demonstrated.

Elections matter.

 

[Meathead]

It was passed because Reagan was shot and there was no clear process for Bush I to assume command.


Elections matter.

Reagan was shot in 1967? How old are you?

 

[Eman623]

Reagan was shot in 1967? How old are you?

I mean Kennedy. Yes, I'm old,

 

[Meathead]

I mean Kennedy. Yes, I'm old,

Regardless, the 25th was not needed for the VP to become President upon his death. That's what the VP is for.

 

[sealybobo]

Biden's severely deteriorated cognition brings the question in the validity of the 25th amendment as written. It vests too much power in those aligned with the president who for political reasons failed to invoke it. While the rest of the word bore witness to the obvious decline of the ex-president and despite the equally obvious threat to the security of the country, the VP and the cabinet stood by until it could not be denied in the wake of Biden's debate with Trump. If Biden had had a rare lucid day and won the election, I don't doubt that by this time into his second term Kamala would have succeeded him with the invocation the 25th.

The point is the country was without a cogent leader for years. In light of this the power to invoke the 25th should be by say a 2/3 to a 3/4 majority of the senate who would have to face electoral consequences, rather than those who would simply go on MSNBC and/or write books while denying the obvious deterioration of their former boss, the president of the United States.

Trump did it again.

“My father was born ― like he knows all about my father ― my father was born there,” Trump said as he gestured to the German chancellor, indicating his father was born in Germany. “So, you know, places that you sort of automatically, very very, feel warmly about.”

Fred Trump, was born in New York, not Germany.

Trump has made that same mistake before, claiming in 2019 that his father was “born in a very wonderful place in Germany.”

The latest verbal stumble drew attention, in part, because Trump repeatedly attacked his predecessor, Joe Biden, for his own gaffes when in office ― and in 2022 even claimed that Biden had dementia.

Now, some critics are pointing to Trump’s frequent flubs, as well as growing questions about his overall health (including two “yearly” physicals just six months apart). And they’re hitting the president with the same kinds of accusations he once made against Biden.

Imagine if Joe Biden had forgotten where his own dad was born. By the way, this isn't the first time that Trump has falsely claimed his dad was born in Germany when he was actually born in New York.25th Amendment.