Warming of oceans due to climate change is unstoppable, say US scientists

[CrusaderFrank]

Get back to us when you've had an education Frank. For now, though, do you accept or reject the report that the oceans have warmed - continuing to warm even during what you claim has been a hiatus in warming?

So you have no answer and no experiment to show us how it's possible that CO2 warming is only raising the atmosphere .4 degrees (I won't argue your 'adjusted data') yet is also warming a system that takes 700 times the energy to do so?

Amazing

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Get back to us when you've had an education Frank. For now, though, do you accept or reject the report that the oceans have warmed - continuing to warm even during what you claim has been a hiatus in warming?

The article claims that the oceans absorb 90% of the imaginary "excess heat caused by the rise in greenhouse gas emissions"

If that's true and as you said, it takes 700 times the energy to heat equal volume of water compared to air, then assuming a 120PPM addition of CO2 raised temperature .4 degrees, why you should have no problem at all producing a lab experiment that show 120PPM of CO2 increasing air temperature 25 degrees.

Right?

 

[Crick]

PS: Where did you get 0.4? The Earth's temperature has increased over 0.9C. That would be over 1.6F. And the factor of 700 is not a ratio of degrees. It is a ratio of the amount of heat (measured in calories or Joules) required to raise the temperature of a given mass of a given material a given amount. A Joule, for instance, will raise one gram of water one Kelvin (Centigrade) degree. It will not raise one gram of air one Kelvin degree due to the difference between the specific heat capacity of water and that of air's.

Terribly sorry the universe is not as simple as you'd like.

 

[Skull Pilot]

A little warmer will only cost us hundreds of billions. A lot warmer will cost us a great deal more. And with opinions like yours, the "lots warmer" is virtually guaranteed.

Yeah right and all the apocalyptic predictions have come true so far.

Sorry but the world will not end if temps are a little warmer

 

[Billy_Bob]

No number.

Odd

Let's try again

How much will the oceans cool for each 10PPM reduction in CO2?

I love trick questions.. CO2 and its IR output at 14-16um does not penetrate the 0.1um of the surface of the ocean. it has no thermal value. Water vapor from the suns direct rays will carry off more heat than thermal IR can slow down. At night the heat loss is not retarded by CO2.

The answer is less than 0.05W/M^2 per cubic foot. (pretty close to zero)

Two out of three aint bad. But CO2 is the same GHouse gas 24 hours a day as far as back radiation is concerned. Unless you simply meant theres more heat loss at night without solar driven convection, .

Water vapor and convection at night can not be stopped by CO2. Thermal loss and lack of penetration into oceans means that loss is all that is going to happen at night. 3/3

Co2 doesnt Stop water vapor. As far as long wave IR (heat) goes, its the other way round.. water vapor kills a large portion of the heat absorption for CO2.

Co2 AND water vapor for that matter do the same IR absorption and back radiation to the surface at night, that they do during the day. Clear nights are colder than cloudy nights. Same deal with Co2, but its better homogenized than water vapor.....

The convection process does not lend itself to back-radiation (if there is such a thing) as the heat is trapped in water vapor which rises through the atmosphere unstopped by CO2.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

PS: Where did you get 0.4? The Earth's temperature has increased over 0.9C. That would be over 1.6F. And the factor of 700 is not a ratio of degrees. It is a ratio of the amount of heat (measured in calories or Joules) required to raise the temperature of a given mass of a given material a given amount. A Joule, for instance, will raise one gram of water one Kelvin (Centigrade) degree. It will not raise one gram of air one Kelvin degree due to the difference between the specific heat capacity of water and that of air's.

Terribly sorry the universe is not as simply as you'd like.

You realize that saying the temperature increase (based on adjusted data) is .9 degrees makes your total inability to produce any lab work that much worse.

If only 10% of the energy is going into the air, then the expected increase in an air only system from 120PPM of CO2 should be approximately 56 degrees

 

[SSDD]

A little warmer will only cost us hundreds of billions. A lot warmer will cost us a great deal more. And with opinions like yours, the "lots warmer" is virtually guaranteed.

Yeah right and all the apocalyptic predictions have come true so far.

Sorry but the world will not end if temps are a little warmer

Much rather see a bit of warming than the cooling that is on the way.

 

[Crick]

Too bad it won't be just "a bit".

 

[Billy_Bob]

PS: Where did you get 0.4? The Earth's temperature has increased over 0.9C. That would be over 1.6F. And the factor of 700 is not a ratio of degrees. It is a ratio of the amount of heat (measured in calories or Joules) required to raise the temperature of a given mass of a given material a given amount. A Joule, for instance, will raise one gram of water one Kelvin (Centigrade) degree. It will not raise one gram of air one Kelvin degree due to the difference between the specific heat capacity of water and that of air's.

Terribly sorry the universe is not as simply as you'd like.

And you have no clue... 700 times the amount of heat to raise water 1 deg C than it takes to raise air 1 Deg C. whether it is in joules or deg C the math is the same. We would have to be experiencing massive heat in flux to create ocean temp rise that we are not seeing empirically. 0.02 deg C is not massive and within normal year to year temperature variations. Just slight changes in the AMO and ADO will cause +/- 2 deg C regionally altering the global number far beyond the imagined increase.

 

[Billy_Bob]

As i read through these fear mongering threads it is surprising how many people do not think for themselves. Take what our government propagandists say as truth and fail to look objectively at their claims.

Were talking just 2 hundredths of a degree in temp rise. that amount is consistent with statistical error and inside the physical error bars of the measuring instruments. This level of error significance renders their dire predictions suspect to total fabrication and their scientific abilities/creditability as less than zero.

With their results within in known inability to measure accurately, this is total crap. Fear mongering.. Alarmist drivel.

 

[Crick]

And you have no clue...

I've got one hell of a lot more of a clue than do you. Have you taken thermo yet?

700 times the amount of heat to raise water 1 deg C than it takes to raise air 1 Deg C. whether it is in joules or deg C the math is the same.

I never said otherwise.

We would have to be experiencing massive heat in flux to create ocean temp rise that we are not seeing empirically.

What are you suggesting? Is something else warming the oceans or are they not warming as the scientists tell us it is?

0.02 deg C is not massive and within normal year to year temperature variations.

The increase in ocean heat content over the last 150 years is not with normal variations. Such a claim is patently absurd.

Just slight changes in the AMO and ADO will cause +/- 2 deg C regionally altering the global number far beyond the imagined increase.

"Regionally". The report is not one of regional changes numbnuts.

 

[sakinago]

Get back to us when you've had an education Frank. For now, though, do you accept or reject the report that the oceans have warmed - continuing to warm even during what you claim has been a hiatus in warming?

Frank just needs you to post another graph for him. He shouldn't be playing with numbers like he is. That's for our scientist

 

[frigidweirdo]

As i read through these fear mongering threads it is surprising how many people do not think for themselves. Take what our government propagandists say as truth and fail to look objectively at their claims.

Were talking just 2 hundredths of a degree in temp rise. that amount is consistent with statistical error and inside the physical error bars of the measuring instruments. This level of error significance renders their dire predictions suspect to total fabrication and their scientific abilities/creditability as less than zero.

With their results within in known inability to measure accurately, this is total crap. Fear mongering.. Alarmist drivel.

Unless of course we're in a natural cooling period and man made global warming is countering this cooling period, of course.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Get back to us when you've had an education Frank. For now, though, do you accept or reject the report that the oceans have warmed - continuing to warm even during what you claim has been a hiatus in warming?

Frank just needs you to post another graph for him. He shouldn't be playing with numbers like he is. That's for our scientist

So, in other words you have no answer, no experiments and are joining Crick in insults.

Be careful of the company you keep

 

[Skull Pilot]

Too bad it won't be just "a bit".

So Oh Great Karnak how warm will it get?

 

[sakinago]

It's f

As i read through these fear mongering threads it is surprising how many people do not think for themselves. Take what our government propagandists say as truth and fail to look objectively at their claims.

Were talking just 2 hundredths of a degree in temp rise. that amount is consistent with statistical error and inside the physical error bars of the measuring instruments. This level of error significance renders their dire predictions suspect to total fabrication and their scientific abilities/creditability as less than zero.

With their results within in known inability to measure accurately, this is total crap. Fear mongering.. Alarmist drivel.

Unless of course we're in a natural cooling period and man made global warming is countering this cooling period, of course.

its funny the increase of ice caps is increasing pressure and heating the water underneath. Just another sign of global warming

 

[Billy_Bob]

And you have no clue...

I've got one hell of a lot more of a clue than do you. Have you taken thermo yet?

700 times the amount of heat to raise water 1 deg C than it takes to raise air 1 Deg C. whether it is in joules or deg C the math is the same.

I never said otherwise.

We would have to be experiencing massive heat in flux to create ocean temp rise that we are not seeing empirically.

What are you suggesting? Is something else warming the oceans or are they not warming as the scientists tell us it is?

0.02 deg C is not massive and within normal year to year temperature variations.

The increase in ocean heat content over the last 150 years is not with normal variations. Such a claim is patently absurd.

Just slight changes in the AMO and ADO will cause +/- 2 deg C regionally altering the global number far beyond the imagined increase.

"Regionally". The report is not one of regional changes numbnuts.

Crick' How much of a change to the ocean temp sensors and area are required to change the whole by 2 hundredths of a degree? If the change is one degree C it would require just 21% and any ocean area on the planet can do it. Many regions flux over 3 deg C during a year. You really dont know much about statistics or math do you.

 

[Billy_Bob]

It's f

As i read through these fear mongering threads it is surprising how many people do not think for themselves. Take what our government propagandists say as truth and fail to look objectively at their claims.

Were talking just 2 hundredths of a degree in temp rise. that amount is consistent with statistical error and inside the physical error bars of the measuring instruments. This level of error significance renders their dire predictions suspect to total fabrication and their scientific abilities/creditability as less than zero.

With their results within in known inability to measure accurately, this is total crap. Fear mongering.. Alarmist drivel.

Unless of course we're in a natural cooling period and man made global warming is countering this cooling period, of course.

its funny the increase of ice caps is increasing pressure and heating the water underneath. Just another sign of global warming

To be fair, the ice reflects heat from the sun but retains ocean heat under it. I'm not sure how much heat would be generated by pressures though, Not enough to melt it, that would have to come from external sources such as Volcano's..

 

[sakinago]

It's f

As i read through these fear mongering threads it is surprising how many people do not think for themselves. Take what our government propagandists say as truth and fail to look objectively at their claims.

Were talking just 2 hundredths of a degree in temp rise. that amount is consistent with statistical error and inside the physical error bars of the measuring instruments. This level of error significance renders their dire predictions suspect to total fabrication and their scientific abilities/creditability as less than zero.

With their results within in known inability to measure accurately, this is total crap. Fear mongering.. Alarmist drivel.

Unless of course we're in a natural cooling period and man made global warming is countering this cooling period, of course.

its funny the increase of ice caps is increasing pressure and heating the water underneath. Just another sign of global warming

To be fair, the ice reflects heat from the sun but retains ocean heat under it. I'm not sure how much heat would be generated by pressures though, Not enough to melt it, that would have to come from external sources such as Volcano's..

Oh they'll never give you numbers billy bob, so don't bother figuring it out

 

[flacaltenn]

No number.

Odd

Let's try again

How much will the oceans cool for each 10PPM reduction in CO2?

I love trick questions.. CO2 and its IR output at 14-16um does not penetrate the 0.1um of the surface of the ocean. it has no thermal value. Water vapor from the suns direct rays will carry off more heat than thermal IR can slow down. At night the heat loss is not retarded by CO2.

The answer is less than 0.05W/M^2 per cubic foot. (pretty close to zero)

Two out of three aint bad. But CO2 is the same GHouse gas 24 hours a day as far as back radiation is concerned. Unless you simply meant theres more heat loss at night without solar driven convection, .

Water vapor and convection at night can not be stopped by CO2. Thermal loss and lack of penetration into oceans means that loss is all that is going to happen at night. 3/3

Co2 doesnt Stop water vapor. As far as long wave IR (heat) goes, its the other way round.. water vapor kills a large portion of the heat absorption for CO2.

Co2 AND water vapor for that matter do the same IR absorption and back radiation to the surface at night, that they do during the day. Clear nights are colder than cloudy nights. Same deal with Co2, but its better homogenized than water vapor.....

The convection process does not lend itself to back-radiation (if there is such a thing) as the heat is trapped in water vapor which rises through the atmosphere unstopped by CO2.

Yeah.. Now that part is definitely true and probably a large factor in lower ocean climate sensitivity. Moist convection is what you get more of during the daytime. And that carries heat up as a separate process. It also SWAMPS most of the absorption bands of CO2 compared to a sun-heated dry land mass. But the transfer that CO2 is involved in is Radiative IR Heating. And that's there day and night. Whatever IR saturated CO2 exists will be back radiating to the ocean surface and impeding the net flow of heat skyward.

In the presence of a lot of moisture, only 1 or 2 InfraRed bands of CO2 are available for absorption. But they will still act the same day or night.