Walmart on Welfare: We support their employees so they don't have to.

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

And yet, when the entire power of government is brought to bare on building a web site....they fuck it up.

.

Actually, that was a private company that fucked the website up. The government merely supplied and paid for it.

Which SHOULD tell you that if the government paid for private schooling, that would get fucked up to , and it would.

Public schools are bad because they have to take ALL students in, no exceptions, whereas private schools only take the kids who actually want to learn.

Same in Europe or Asia, they kick your ass to the curb if you don't want to learn. Here , we educate the dopes, or rather we try, shit we'll even bankrupt a school to "educate" a child who has some major disease which prevents them from EVERY learning. I feel sorry for those kids , but having them in a school costs hundreds of kids , maybe thousands a better education.

The problem with schools is NOT that they are government ran because public schools MUST by law have a balanced budget. So the government can't even fuck that up.

You cant blame it on a private company. HHS was it's own general contractor.

Nice try though.

sure you can blame it on the private contractor. Yes HHS approved the shitty website, but the private company built it.

No, HHS built it. Do you know what a general contractor is?

.

Well , that's weird, then what did CGI do, and why did HHS fire them after the website was determined to be a failure

No-bid Obamacare contract firm built 2012 voter-tracking The Daily Caller

 

[percysunshine]

And yet, when the entire power of government is brought to bare on building a web site....they fuck it up.

.

Actually, that was a private company that fucked the website up. The government merely supplied and paid for it.

Which SHOULD tell you that if the government paid for private schooling, that would get fucked up to , and it would.

Public schools are bad because they have to take ALL students in, no exceptions, whereas private schools only take the kids who actually want to learn.

Same in Europe or Asia, they kick your ass to the curb if you don't want to learn. Here , we educate the dopes, or rather we try, shit we'll even bankrupt a school to "educate" a child who has some major disease which prevents them from EVERY learning. I feel sorry for those kids , but having them in a school costs hundreds of kids , maybe thousands a better education.

The problem with schools is NOT that they are government ran because public schools MUST by law have a balanced budget. So the government can't even fuck that up.

You cant blame it on a private company. HHS was it's own general contractor.

Nice try though.

sure you can blame it on the private contractor. Yes HHS approved the shitty website, but the private company built it.

No, HHS built it. Do you know what a general contractor is?

.

Well , that's weird, then what did CGI do, and why did HHS fire them after the website was determined to be a failure

No-bid Obamacare contract firm built 2012 voter-tracking The Daily Caller

I guess that would be a 'No'.

.

 

[Andylusion]

Needs? Lets see, how about providing people with a wage they can live off of and not just above the poverty threshold and arrogant elitist? Me? No I put the needs of others very highly, I work and I pay taxes and I don't mind paying those taxes, it goes to the government which provides basic services and welfare to the community Get rid of public schools? You have clearly lost it, public schools have been around for a very long time and sure there are problems that need to be addressed but having access to education has been part of our society for a very long time. You told me some story about a guy who mad 350k a year and had to shut down his place of business for two weeks and didnt let the employees know until the very last minute, I have no idea what other story you are referring too.

No. I told that story.

I have done exactly that. I live in a small town, a personal friend (used to be anyway) owns the McDonalds. One day last year he was forced by McD corporate to remodel, he had to close for two weeks to do so. He waited until the day before closing to inform his employees that they wold be closed for two weeks and that none of them would be receiving a paycheck , not one penny. Now, this guy made somewhere around $350K in profits on that store last year, it certainly wouldn't have killed him to pay his workers for those two weeks, and I didn't think it was fair at all. I told him so , and told him that he lost my business over it. Things got heated and eventually about 200 other people told him the same thing.

Now see, I have no problem with that. Just like you said, if customers wish to apply pressure with the power of their feet... that's fine.

But he did nothing 'wrong'.

First... you might be right.... He might be earning $350K.... but.... you should know that $350K, is how much the owner of a major McDonald's in a prime location makes. The average owner take home net profit, is $200K. That's all Mcdonalds, from largest most busy, to small town low sales McDonalds.

I would guess that his real take home net profit, assuming he's in a 'small town' as you put it, would be under $200K. But... maybe you are right. I don't know. Maybe that $350K is gross profits (sales minus cost of goods sold), before overhead, property maintenance and so on?

And while it may seem like he's swimming in cash... maybe you should consider this...

A Tour Inside McDonald s Big 550 000-Per-Store Renovations - Business Insider

The average remodel cost on a McDonald's store..... $550K. Low end is $400K, and the high end is $700K. A store rebuild, either complete repair, or replacement (demolition and rebuilt), can cost $2.2 Million plus.

McDonald's is only paying out 40% of that cost. The other 60%, the store owner eats. Just money out of his pocket.

That could be $240K to over a million.

On top of that, McDonald requires that franchise owners pay no less than $750K in non-borrowed personal cash interest.

It can take an owner 5 years to break even. Now once he's broken even, then you have a gravy train. Until you pay for the remodel or rebuilt. Then it's years before you break even again.

I'm always skeptical when people say "oh this guy is awash in cash"... no... not necessarily. Now he might end up with money coming out his ears... but don't assume that so quickly. Unless you have insider info... I don't rush to judgement.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Needs? Lets see, how about providing people with a wage they can live off of and not just above the poverty threshold and arrogant elitist? Me? No I put the needs of others very highly, I work and I pay taxes and I don't mind paying those taxes, it goes to the government which provides basic services and welfare to the community Get rid of public schools? You have clearly lost it, public schools have been around for a very long time and sure there are problems that need to be addressed but having access to education has been part of our society for a very long time. You told me some story about a guy who mad 350k a year and had to shut down his place of business for two weeks and didnt let the employees know until the very last minute, I have no idea what other story you are referring too.

No. I told that story.

I have done exactly that. I live in a small town, a personal friend (used to be anyway) owns the McDonalds. One day last year he was forced by McD corporate to remodel, he had to close for two weeks to do so. He waited until the day before closing to inform his employees that they wold be closed for two weeks and that none of them would be receiving a paycheck , not one penny. Now, this guy made somewhere around $350K in profits on that store last year, it certainly wouldn't have killed him to pay his workers for those two weeks, and I didn't think it was fair at all. I told him so , and told him that he lost my business over it. Things got heated and eventually about 200 other people told him the same thing.

Now see, I have no problem with that. Just like you said, if customers wish to apply pressure with the power of their feet... that's fine.

But he did nothing 'wrong'.

First... you might be right.... He might be earning $350K.... but.... you should know that $350K, is how much the owner of a major McDonald's in a prime location makes. The average owner take home net profit, is $200K. That's all Mcdonalds, from largest most busy, to small town low sales McDonalds.

I would guess that his real take home net profit, assuming he's in a 'small town' as you put it, would be under $200K. But... maybe you are right. I don't know. Maybe that $350K is gross profits (sales minus cost of goods sold), before overhead, property maintenance and so on?

And while it may seem like he's swimming in cash... maybe you should consider this...

A Tour Inside McDonald s Big 550 000-Per-Store Renovations - Business Insider

The average remodel cost on a McDonald's store..... $550K. Low end is $400K, and the high end is $700K. A store rebuild, either complete repair, or replacement (demolition and rebuilt), can cost $2.2 Million plus.

McDonald's is only paying out 40% of that cost. The other 60%, the store owner eats. Just money out of his pocket.

That could be $240K to over a million.

On top of that, McDonald requires that franchise owners pay no less than $750K in non-borrowed personal cash interest.

It can take an owner 5 years to break even. Now once he's broken even, then you have a gravy train. Until you pay for the remodel or rebuilt. Then it's years before you break even again.

I'm always skeptical when people say "oh this guy is awash in cash"... no... not necessarily. Now he might end up with money coming out his ears... but don't assume that so quickly. Unless you have insider info... I don't rush to judgement.

As I said, he was a close personal friend, I know EXACTLY how much he made the year previous out of that store, unless he lied to me.. Yes we're a small town, but he's the only McD in about a 40 square mile area and is located next to the only Wal Mart Super Center in the same area. The guy is doing alright.



And I didn't say he did anything wrong per se, just unethical, and I didn't like it. So did I go to the government and complain? No, I registered my complaint at his cash register.

 

[Andylusion]

Needs? Lets see, how about providing people with a wage they can live off of and not just above the poverty threshold and arrogant elitist? Me? No I put the needs of others very highly, I work and I pay taxes and I don't mind paying those taxes, it goes to the government which provides basic services and welfare to the community Get rid of public schools? You have clearly lost it, public schools have been around for a very long time and sure there are problems that need to be addressed but having access to education has been part of our society for a very long time. You told me some story about a guy who mad 350k a year and had to shut down his place of business for two weeks and didnt let the employees know until the very last minute, I have no idea what other story you are referring too.

I lived off of $12K for the whole year. False claim.

That must have been a different poster.

Private schools routinely do a better job. Public schools are terrible. We spend more money on education than any other country in the world, and yet are students come out stupid.

and yet in all of Europe and the rest of the industrialized first nation world they provide education for their citizens, how does that work exactly? Look at statistics, plenty of statistics including the MIT living wage calculator show what is considered a wage someone can live off of by the people who are professionals in their fields.

Yeah, and many of them have free-market systems in place. Nordic countries have vastly different systems than our public union dominated schools. I would gladly move towards that over our system too.

Now if you compare higher education... our higher education dominates the world. People come here from all over the planet, because they know our higher education is superior... and it's not government run, and is mostly privately funded.

What is "considered" is irrelevant. You can claim no one can live off $12K. Doesn't matter. I did it. "our theoretical calculations show that's impossible for..." I don't care.... when I DID IT.

What don't you get about the *FACT* that I lived off the wage you claim isn't a livable wage?

All your calculations and theories, and statistics, don't matter when I completely proved you can live off $12K a year, when I *DID* live off $12K a year.

"But but MIT! And Leftards in Ivory Towers said, and I believe them because I don't think for myself!"

Don't care. The Ivory Tower leftards are wrong. I proved them wrong. Experience of reality, trumps opinions of statistics, every time.

 

[Andylusion]

Actually, that was a private company that fucked the website up. The government merely supplied and paid for it.

Which SHOULD tell you that if the government paid for private schooling, that would get fucked up to , and it would.

Public schools are bad because they have to take ALL students in, no exceptions, whereas private schools only take the kids who actually want to learn.

Same in Europe or Asia, they kick your ass to the curb if you don't want to learn. Here , we educate the dopes, or rather we try, shit we'll even bankrupt a school to "educate" a child who has some major disease which prevents them from EVERY learning. I feel sorry for those kids , but having them in a school costs hundreds of kids , maybe thousands a better education.

The problem with schools is NOT that they are government ran because public schools MUST by law have a balanced budget. So the government can't even fuck that up.

And yet private schools routinely do better than the public ones... with vouchers. The Chilean system works, and they have vouchers.

And yes, the government screws that up all the time. There is so much wasted money in public schools, it's unbelievable.

NY Public Schools Wasting Money Comptroller NBC New York

Happens constantly. All the time. Just read about the public schools rubber rooms. Paying teachers to not teach, because they can't be fired.

Billions of dollars wasted.

 

[Progressivedude2014]

Needs? Lets see, how about providing people with a wage they can live off of and not just above the poverty threshold and arrogant elitist? Me? No I put the needs of others very highly, I work and I pay taxes and I don't mind paying those taxes, it goes to the government which provides basic services and welfare to the community Get rid of public schools? You have clearly lost it, public schools have been around for a very long time and sure there are problems that need to be addressed but having access to education has been part of our society for a very long time. You told me some story about a guy who mad 350k a year and had to shut down his place of business for two weeks and didnt let the employees know until the very last minute, I have no idea what other story you are referring too.

I lived off of $12K for the whole year. False claim.

That must have been a different poster.

Private schools routinely do a better job. Public schools are terrible. We spend more money on education than any other country in the world, and yet are students come out stupid.

and yet in all of Europe and the rest of the industrialized first nation world they provide education for their citizens, how does that work exactly? Look at statistics, plenty of statistics including the MIT living wage calculator show what is considered a wage someone can live off of by the people who are professionals in their fields.

Yeah, and many of them have free-market systems in place. Nordic countries have vastly different systems than our public union dominated schools. I would gladly move towards that over our system too.

Now if you compare higher education... our higher education dominates the world. People come here from all over the planet, because they know our higher education is superior... and it's not government run, and is mostly privately funded.

What is "considered" is irrelevant. You can claim no one can live off $12K. Doesn't matter. I did it. "our theoretical calculations show that's impossible for..." I don't care.... when I DID IT.

What don't you get about the *FACT* that I lived off the wage you claim isn't a livable wage?

All your calculations and theories, and statistics, don't matter when I completely proved you can live off $12K a year, when I *DID* live off $12K a year.

"But but MIT! And Leftards in Ivory Towers said, and I believe them because I don't think for myself!"

Don't care. The Ivory Tower leftards are wrong. I proved them wrong. Experience of reality, trumps opinions of statistics, every time.

Congrats to you for living off of 12 thousand a year but that does not mean you are everyone and yes MIT as in the Massachusetts Institute of Technology as if the people who go there are all retarded as you would say. I'm pretty positive they have sound reasoning and research when coming up with their numbers, um.. yeah!

 

[Political Junky]

As has been stated, Costco pays much more than a minimum wage and makes a substantial profit.

 

[OnePercenter]

Dunce!
If WalMart didnt hire them the taxpayer would be on the hook for their entire subsistence. WalMart subsidizes the state, not the other way around.

WalMart displaces 1 1/2 jobs for every job it creates.

 

[OnePercenter]

Walmart pays what the market dictates they pay. It's that simple. If people won't work for the wages they offer they'll have a shortage of workers and will be forced to pay more. They are not obligated to pay anyone what you think they should be paid. That is how the free market works, Komrade.

WalMart pays what they can get away with. It's that simple.

 

[The Rabbi]

Dunce!
If WalMart didnt hire them the taxpayer would be on the hook for their entire subsistence. WalMart subsidizes the state, not the other way around.

WalMart displaces 1 1/2 jobs for every job it creates.

Proof? Oh yeah, it's the Jake Starkey school of argument. Assert something and then insult anyone who doesnt agree.

 

[The Rabbi]

Walmart pays what the market dictates they pay. It's that simple. If people won't work for the wages they offer they'll have a shortage of workers and will be forced to pay more. They are not obligated to pay anyone what you think they should be paid. That is how the free market works, Komrade.

WalMart pays what they can get away with. It's that simple.

Like every other employer in the universe. Was there a point?

 

[The Rabbi]

As has been stated, Costco pays much more than a minimum wage and makes a substantial profit.

So does Apple.
What was your point again?

 

[The Rabbi]

No not really, the government is a legitimate avenue for people to communicate their needs to. Whether it is a road with potholes or a school that needs to be renovated or increasing the size of a police force or the tax rate or ensuring fair business practices and labor laws are followed. The government exists to serve the people and the community, from what you had said to me about what happened in your community this guy really screwed some people over and I do feel the government absolutely has a right to get involved when people are being screwed over. Don't put words in my mouth and tell me what redress means to you. These people were financially wronged by this person and the government is in every aspect of our lives and they serve us and represent us and YES they have a say!

Wow the illogic is stunning.
Government provides some services like roads, schools, and police protection. So when those are substandard it makes sense to go to the provider and complain.
A job in private industry is not provided by the government. Ergo you dont go to the government when you feel wronged. You can go to court, but that's not really the same thing.
People generally arent being screwed over. Except by government. And then where do you go?

That is not "illogic", the government is involved in every aspect of our lives,including the economy, from the fed to trade agreements to tax rates or tax zones to fees and licenses and regulations. The government is already heavily involved in the economy and I do feel is obligated to make sure people are not being wronged or screwed over.

Congrats... you just provided the exact justification that every brutal tyrant has used.

This right here, is exactly why every leftist government ends up a brutal authoritarian regime.

Yes, government is involved heavily in our economy, and it is exactly those areas it is most heavily involved in, that have the most problems.

We have the most heavily regulated and controlled banking system in the world. Anyone remember 2008?

We have massive controls in health care, and health insurance. No problems there, right?

Want to know some of the least regulated aspects of our economy? Technology. Man, of only we had better computers, and cell phones, and high speed internet access. We clearly need government to step in and fix all those problems. Practically no one can get a smart phone, or computers with 4 Terabyte hard drives, 3x Core 3.1 Ghz computers, with 50 fps 2300x2100 3d-rendering graphics card, and 24" flat screens... you know... like the one I'm sitting in front of.

We clearly need government to help this struggling depressed high tech industry.... and fix it.... like health care and banking.... right?

Surely you do not know what we are talking about because the government has built the infrastructure and researched the technologies which private companies are making massive profits off of today. Internet? GPS? The next frontier in private investment in space NASA has been at the forefront of space since the beginning. Hybrid and electric vehicles and renewable technologies? The government has had a big hand in that, agriculture and farming? The government has been involved in that for years and no not every heavily regulated gsociety turns into an authoritarian regime. Most developed nations of the world are much more heavily regulated than ours, Great Britian, France, Japan, Australia, Denmark, Norway, Sweden. People in these countries are much higher educated and have much less poverty and violence than here and none of them are communists, fascists, dictatorships or authoritarian.

Geezus are you an idiot. I didnt think people this uninformed existed.
The internet would be nothing without Cisco, Netscape, Google, Microsoft, and all the other companies that built both hardware and software to run it.
Agriculture? It would be nothng without Monsanto, International Harvester, and all the other companies that have done R&D to make stuff for it.
Hybrids, ditto. In all these cases the government contribution was both minimal and incredibly expensive.
Government cannot run a whore house profitably. They cannot develop a website that even today will tell you how many people bought your product. Government is the most failed "innovator" ever. Recall the "synfuels" project of Jimmy Carter, amid an army of others.
Government does not "invest". Government spends money it coerces from other, more productive entities.

Other countries like the ones you named live in an economically stagnant society. In Sweden, their biggest 10 companies were all formed around WW1. In the US probably one was.

 

[dblack]

I think what liberalism is coming to terms with, and will eventually learn, is that government power over our economic decisions is every bit as dangerous as government power over our religious choices.

 

[zeke]

It is funny you attempt to characterize me as supporting the rich, our current president wants to end subsidies for oil and gas companies the Replublican right does, our current president wants to end the offshoring of capital by changing the laws the Republican right does not. Bush was so far to the right its not even funny and plenty of people will tell you the policies of his administration supported the rich and powerful. I am a spoiled american because I support policies which benefit the middle and lower classes, I do not think so. I am not spoiled at all I wokr just like everyone else yet I come from a lower to middle class family and know all too well hardships that have been faced by my family and others. I suppose you think supporting the healthcare law which attempts to control costs and gives tens of millions more people access to healthcare is supporting the rich as well? Yes, fact, people did have more buying power in the past and had to work less for the same level of equality and yes the rich were taxed at a much igher rate.

No, you do support the rich. It's not a characterize. It's a fact.

Further, we don't subsidize oil companies. We don't. We subsidize Ethanol. Money is stolen (taxed) from my pay check, and the government writes a check to Ethanol companies. That is a subsidy.

We don't not subsidize oil companies. It's a lie. You show me in the Federal budget where an oil company collects money FROM the government. Because I can show you budget items where we subsidize oil.

And your policies do not benefit the lower and middle class. You just posted that you support a policy that will eliminate half a million jobs of exactly those people.

As for Health Care....

I cite myself as an example. Back in 2004, I got an insurance policy for $67 a month. It was a catastrophic coverage policy.

Today... all those policies are gone. The lowest priced policy I could find was $250. So... today I have no insurance. I'll just pay the $97 tax fine.

You sure haven't benefited me.

You really are a piece of shit. You know that? First you claim you only make 12k a year and earn the EIC.
Now you proudly proclaim you can't even provide your own health insurance,

What the fuck is wrong with you? Moocher.

 

[Andylusion]

Needs? Lets see, how about providing people with a wage they can live off of and not just above the poverty threshold and arrogant elitist? Me? No I put the needs of others very highly, I work and I pay taxes and I don't mind paying those taxes, it goes to the government which provides basic services and welfare to the community Get rid of public schools? You have clearly lost it, public schools have been around for a very long time and sure there are problems that need to be addressed but having access to education has been part of our society for a very long time. You told me some story about a guy who mad 350k a year and had to shut down his place of business for two weeks and didnt let the employees know until the very last minute, I have no idea what other story you are referring too.

I lived off of $12K for the whole year. False claim.

That must have been a different poster.

Private schools routinely do a better job. Public schools are terrible. We spend more money on education than any other country in the world, and yet are students come out stupid.

and yet in all of Europe and the rest of the industrialized first nation world they provide education for their citizens, how does that work exactly? Look at statistics, plenty of statistics including the MIT living wage calculator show what is considered a wage someone can live off of by the people who are professionals in their fields.

Yeah, and many of them have free-market systems in place. Nordic countries have vastly different systems than our public union dominated schools. I would gladly move towards that over our system too.

Now if you compare higher education... our higher education dominates the world. People come here from all over the planet, because they know our higher education is superior... and it's not government run, and is mostly privately funded.

What is "considered" is irrelevant. You can claim no one can live off $12K. Doesn't matter. I did it. "our theoretical calculations show that's impossible for..." I don't care.... when I DID IT.

What don't you get about the *FACT* that I lived off the wage you claim isn't a livable wage?

All your calculations and theories, and statistics, don't matter when I completely proved you can live off $12K a year, when I *DID* live off $12K a year.

"But but MIT! And Leftards in Ivory Towers said, and I believe them because I don't think for myself!"

Don't care. The Ivory Tower leftards are wrong. I proved them wrong. Experience of reality, trumps opinions of statistics, every time.

Congrats to you for living off of 12 thousand a year but that does not mean you are everyone and yes MIT as in the Massachusetts Institute of Technology as if the people who go there are all retarded as you would say. I'm pretty positive they have sound reasoning and research when coming up with their numbers, um.. yeah!

If they claim you can't possibly live of $12K, then yes, they are retarded. "they have sound reasoning", but I have fact. I did it. And again, I know people who live on less than that, and have done so for YEARS.

No, I'm not everyone... so what? Are you telling me, that I'm super human? There is not one single special aspect about me. Anyone can survive and prosper, on very little.

 

[Andylusion]

As has been stated, Costco pays much more than a minimum wage and makes a substantial profit.

Very true, and very irrelevant. Yes, they pay more. They also have a fraction of the employees, and higher value goods. Because of the higher value sales, and because employees accomplish more work, the value of their labor is thus higher. Thus they are paid more.

If anything, Costco proves my point. They have ZERO reason to pay more... right? There is no regulation that forces them to pay employees more. Right?

The leftist logic, that shareholders and CEOs of Costco should pay minimum wage, in order to increase profits, fails with Costco.

Nearly every business in which the value of the labor is higher, the pay to employees is also higher. The Free-market Capitalist system works. Your own example proves it.

 

[Andylusion]

Dunce!
If WalMart didnt hire them the taxpayer would be on the hook for their entire subsistence. WalMart subsidizes the state, not the other way around.

WalMart displaces 1 1/2 jobs for every job it creates.

Myth. Not true. Not provable. Not even supportable.

 

[Andylusion]

Walmart pays what the market dictates they pay. It's that simple. If people won't work for the wages they offer they'll have a shortage of workers and will be forced to pay more. They are not obligated to pay anyone what you think they should be paid. That is how the free market works, Komrade.

WalMart pays what they can get away with. It's that simple.

Then why doesn't Costco pay what they can get away with? Fail.