Wagner Group Mercenaries

[JohnDB]

Here is some brief testimony about these mercs.
Should the US continue to allow them to dominate West Africa and be a thorn in the Ukraine conflict?
They are a criminal organization that takes over small countries. They recruit prisoners because they themselves are criminals guilty of all sorts of atrocities. Time to dismantle them?

 

[luiza]

From the US in particular the term "criminal organisation" is beyond absurd .
The biggest terrorist nation on the planet calling others out for bullying and inflicting the deepest sorts of interference .
And as for Russia's dastardly war tactics -- to recruit those most likely to succeed -- I agree that is an idea quite foreign to the US since WW2 .
A bunch of serial losers ,now bolstered by the LGGBTQ communities . Hysterical .

 

[JohnDB]

From the US in particular the term "criminal organisation" is beyond absurd .
The biggest terrorist nation on the planet calling others out for bullying and inflicting the deepest sorts of interference .
And as for Russia's dastardly war tactics -- to recruit those most likely to succeed -- I agree that is an idea quite foreign to the US since WW2 .
A bunch of serial losers ,now bolstered by the LGGBTQ communities . Hysterical .

I can understand why those in their employ would hold such an opinion. After all....they sign your paychecks.

 

[luiza]

I can understand why those in their employ would hold such an opinion. After all....they sign your paychecks.

Don't run away In cowardly fashion just because you made a silly and ill considered post .
You are so used to America playing the violent bully that you forgot your own reality .
Remember how the CIA fomented and funded ISIS to break up the ME? Strange that they have all but disappreared from view since Russia summarily despatched the US from Syria .
Where have al-Qaeda gone since the US ran away from Afghanistan , humiliated and all time losers?
Now the CIA is reduced to bringing in ex NATO personnel , newly signed under private contracts to fight proxy once again for the global terrorist leaders , the US .
How odd that you are uaware of all of this and so bitter about someone else handling matters so much better .

And if it is evident to a mum in SE England it is equally evident to many others all over the world .

 

[1srelluc]

OP acts like he has never heard of the Russians (and Soviets before them) using "convicts", most of which were Red Army troops that got into trouble. There were also criminals that served. The Soviets fielded many battalions of them in WW-2.

The thing with the current disposition is that the six-month "enlistment" for many of the convicts is up soon.

Now if it holds to the old form they will be discharged (along with their sentences) at the end of that time.

For some reason the Soviets were very good to their word about that and if they survived the penal battalions they were sent back to their former units with their rank (if any) restored.

My understanding is when the Wagner group convicts term of service is over they might then be offered a merc job within the Wagner Group so that part is still up in the air.

 

[JohnDB]

Don't run away In cowardly fashion just because you made a silly and ill considered post .
You are so used to America playing the violent bully that you forgot your own reality .
Remember how the CIA fomented and funded ISIS to break up the ME? Strange that they have all but disappreared from view since Russia summarily despatched the US from Syria .
Where have al-Qaeda gone since the US ran away from Afghanistan , humiliated and all time losers?
Now the CIA is reduced to bringing in ex NATO personnel , newly signed under private contracts to fight proxy once again for the global terrorist leaders , the US .
How odd that you are uaware of all of this and so bitter about someone else handling matters so much better .

And if it is evident to a mum in SE England it is equally evident to many others all over the world .

Not relevant facts. Not subjects discussed by anyone else but you in this thread....start your own about this if you want....

This is solely about the Wagner Group Mercs.

They have taken over small countries in West Africa and are stealing their resources for their own gain. They are billing Russia a fortune for military services in Ukraine.

 

[JohnDB]

OP acts like he has never heard of the Russians (and Soviets before them) using "convicts", most of which were Red Army troops that got into trouble. There were also criminals that served. The Soviets fielded many battalions of them in WW-2.

The thing with the current disposition is that the six-month "enlistment" for many of the convicts is up soon.

Now if it holds to the old form they will be discharged (along with their sentences) at the end of that time.

For some reason the Soviets were very good to their word about that and if they survived the penal battalions they were sent back to their former units with their rank (if any) restored.

My understanding is when the Wagner group convicts term of service is over they might then be offered a merc job within the Wagner Group so that part is still up in the air.

During WW2 the USA did similar with those convicted of minor charges like federal theft or simple assault (bar fist fight with a federal judge or something).

Currently Wagner Group is using convicts as cannon fodder. Where there are a few survivors they didn't plan on really having any that weren't in the hospital. So they are way past their service period....and since these people have no capability to get their voices heard by anyone who could do anything....they still have to serve or get shot.

 

[JohnDB]

Massacres, Executions, and Falsified Graves: The Wagner Group’s Mounting Humanitarian Cost in Mali

The Wagner Group is complicit in violence against civilians in Mali, the latest in a long pattern of abuses and war crimes. The international community needs to redouble its efforts to protect civilians in Mali and hold the Wagner Group accountable.

www.csis.org

 

[1srelluc]

During WW2 the USA did similar with those convicted of minor charges like federal theft or simple assault (bar fist fight with a federal judge or something).

Currently Wagner Group is using convicts as cannon fodder. Where there are a few survivors they didn't plan on really having any that weren't in the hospital. So they are way past their service period....and since these people have no capability to get their voices heard by anyone who could do anything....they still have to serve or get shot.

Nope, not at all.

What they do risk is being drafted upon discharge so many will likely stay with Wagner and get paid.

 

[Kruska]

Here is some brief testimony about these mercs.
Should the US continue to allow them to dominate West Africa and be a thorn in the Ukraine conflict?
They are a criminal organization that takes over small countries. They recruit prisoners because they themselves are criminals guilty of all sorts of atrocities. Time to dismantle them?

The USA does not exercise jurisdiction over e.g. Ukraine, Syria, Mali, etc. As such events in other countries involving Wagner-Group is de-facto none of the USA's business.
Due to this the US government is trying to classify them as a terrorist group/organization, which would allow the US government to take certain actions under the umbrella of anti-terrorist operations.

Wagner-Group legally forms as a private enterprise. That most of it's officers and NCO's are Russian Army regulars is known, also the fact that they are directly under the command of the Russian MoD.
Certain Special operations are conducted under the leadership of the FSB and GUR. However as long as there is no proof of direct involvement via specific orders from the Russian MoD e.g. go and slaughter some civilians or don't take prisoners - the MoD can't be held accountable for such actions. (deniability).

WG can't be hired via foreign private contractors but only by foreign government institutions - as such WG members operate under e.g. Mali's MoD - and unless the UN would decide otherwise, it would again be none of the USA's or any other countries business as to what WG aka the Mali MoD does in it's own country.

Most of the WG members are actually not infantry grunts, but specialists in all kind of fields, starting from security personal and instructor (qualified in all kinds of weapon and weapon support systems) right down to radar and electronics experts to pilots. As such the actual operational envelop of WG members is very similar to that of former Green Berets operations in South-East-Asia and Central America and those of e.g. Air America. I would even dare to say that's were the general idea derives from - same goes for various similar organizations throughout the world.

A successful attempt by the USA to classify WG as a terrorist group - would have huge ramifications throughout the world including the USA, in regards to a prosperous multi billion $ business.

In regards to Ukraine the deployment envelop of WG members is vastly different - see convicts and other scum more or less press-ganged into WG as grunts, but with a significantly higher pay then their pendants in the regular RF. Again deniability and maybe far more important - the Russian general public wouldn't know or even care much about those losses.

The present discussions in Russia are basically to separate the actual WG and it's qualified members and needed experts - from the press-gang grunts.

 

[odanny]

The leader of the Wagner Group also runs internet troll farms in places like St. Petersburg, and some of those workers have likely posted here. Or are posting here. The head of Wagner now has a private army that could challenge Putin. Sure hope he has a food taster.

 

[JohnDB]

The USA does not exercise jurisdiction over e.g. Ukraine, Syria, Mali, etc. As such events in other countries involving Wagner-Group is de-facto none of the USA's business.
Due to this the US government is trying to classify them as a terrorist group/organization, which would allow the US government to take certain actions under the umbrella of anti-terrorist operations.

Wagner-Group legally forms as a private enterprise. That most of it's officers and NCO's are Russian Army regulars is known, also the fact that they are directly under the command of the Russian MoD.
Certain Special operations are conducted under the leadership of the FSB and GUR. However as long as there is no proof of direct involvement via specific orders from the Russian MoD e.g. go and slaughter some civilians or don't take prisoners - the MoD can't be held accountable for such actions. (deniability).

WG can't be hired via foreign private contractors but only by foreign government institutions - as such WG members operate under e.g. Mali's MoD - and unless the UN would decide otherwise, it would again be none of the USA's or any other countries business as to what WG aka the Mali MoD does in it's own country.

Most of the WG members are actually not infantry grunts, but specialists in all kind of fields, starting from security personal and instructor (qualified in all kinds of weapon and weapon support systems) right down to radar and electronics experts to pilots. As such the actual operational envelop of WG members is very similar to that of former Green Berets operations in South-East-Asia and Central America and those of e.g. Air America. I would even dare to say that's were the general idea derives from - same goes for various similar organizations throughout the world.

A successful attempt by the USA to classify WG as a terrorist group - would have huge ramifications throughout the world including the USA, in regards to a prosperous multi billion $ business.

In regards to Ukraine the deployment envelop of WG members is vastly different - see convicts and other scum more or less press-ganged into WG as grunts, but with a significantly higher pay then their pendants in the regular RF. Again deniability and maybe far more important - the Russian general public wouldn't know or even care much about those losses.

The present discussions in Russia are basically to separate the actual WG and it's qualified members and needed experts - from the press-gang grunts.

Mali used to be a nice tourist destination too. Now its run by Wagner thugs. It's going to be forever until someone removes them from existence.

 

[Kruska]

Mali used to be a nice tourist destination too. Now its run by Wagner thugs. It's going to be forever until someone removes them from existence.

Sorry it's run by the new Mali government and their own MoD - taking the assistance of WG and also other "military consultant" companies willingly into account.
If you want to point out "deficiencies" of the Mali government - I am all with you.

 

[JohnDB]

Sorry it's run by the new Mali government and their own MoD - taking the assistance of WG and also other "military consultant" companies willingly into account.
If you want to point out "deficiencies" of the Mali government - I am all with you.

Assistance from Wagner?

That's like getting assistance from Somalia Pirates.

 

[Kruska]

Assistance from Wagner?

That's like getting assistance from Somalia Pirates.

Yes - kind off. But again you would need to ask the Mali or Chad government why they chose them instead of Somali pirates or the scum that can be found amongst e.g. Black-water operatives. (probably because Black-water and others operate under the US government and the good old CIA).

 

[JohnDB]

Yes - kind off. But again you would need to ask the Mali or Chad government why they chose them instead of Somali pirates or the scum that can be found amongst e.g. Black-water operatives. (probably because Black-water and others operate under the US government and the good old CIA).

They didn't choose Wagner Group mercenaries....they were invaded by Wagner mercs and these pirates have continued to plunder the nation.

The puppet government is one Wagner installed....they weren't elected by the people. They were selected and chosen due to the guns at their heads. Huge difference in leadership.

 

[Lord Long Rod]

I love it how all these western propagandists are talking like Russia is on the brink of defeat. These idiots have no idea what they are talking about. Barring any direct NATO intervention, Russia will win the war if it takes them 10 year to do it. Thus, we ought to either intervene to stop it (bad decision) or stop supporting Ukraine and hasten the inevitable (not a great decision, but not nearly as bad as direct intervention). We cannot tread water here. America needs to make a tough decision and stop riding the fence like some French faggot.

 

[JohnDB]

I love it how all these western propagandists are talking like Russia is on the brink of defeat. These idiots have no idea what they are talking about. Barring any direct NATO intervention, Russia will win the war if it takes them 10 year to do it. Thus, we ought to either intervene to stop it (bad decision) or stop supporting Ukraine and hasten the inevitable (not a great decision, but not nearly as bad as direct intervention). We cannot tread water here. America needs to make a tough decision and stop riding the fence like some French faggot.

This is really off topic and a side issue at best.

Wagner is a group of Mercenaries/pirates out of Russia. It's not a humanitarian aide group.
This group of armed thugs has grown in money, power, and size to where they are capable of dominating small countries to steal their resources so they can continue to grow.

Should the USA intervene in destroying this group like the USA did in Somalia?

 

[JohnDB]

The USA might not take on Wagner Group mercenaries....but France, Germany, UK or even Poland might....

Just saying.

 

[Silver Cat]

Assistance from Wagner?

That's like getting assistance from Somalia Pirates.

Why not? Even Somalia Pirates are better than Ukrainian Nazies. And Biden think that he can use them.