UVA student jailed for possession of bottled water, ice cream

[Connery]

These are BEVERAGE CONTROL agents. You know, supposed to stop under age kids buying beer. Why are they armed?




" In an age of Big Government, when a strange man jumps on the hood of your car late at night and draws a gun on you, he’s almost certain, statistically speaking, to be a safety inspector from the Bureau of Compliance rather than the local rapist. So sleep easy!" Steyn

Virginia ABC Special Agents are sworn police officers with full law enforcement authority.

About ABC

Obviously they are, but I would question if they need to be. Does every bureaucracy need it's own Seal Team Six?

Big over-reach, in my opinion.

When I read about the officers who have been killed in the line of duty for ABC I have no question they should be armed.

 

[percysunshine]

Virginia ABC Special Agents are sworn police officers with full law enforcement authority.

About ABC

Obviously they are, but I would question if they need to be. Does every bureaucracy need it's own Seal Team Six?

Big over-reach, in my opinion.

When I read about the officers who have been killed in the line of duty for ABC I have no question they should be armed.

Same argument. Either the local police or the ATF already have that job. In the case at hand, probably better trained to. Bureaucratic over reach, in my opinion.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I would be worried about other cops harassing her, possibly to the point of planting drugs on her or simply raping and killing her.

To what ends? Why target her and for what reason would these"cops" take the chance of being prosecuted themselves?

Revenge...like any other street gang, cops like to punish anyone who gets one of their fellows in trouble.

 

[Pogo]

These are BEVERAGE CONTROL agents. You know, supposed to stop under age kids buying beer. Why are they armed?




" In an age of Big Government, when a strange man jumps on the hood of your car late at night and draws a gun on you, he’s almost certain, statistically speaking, to be a safety inspector from the Bureau of Compliance rather than the local rapist. So sleep easy!" Steyn

Virginia ABC Special Agents are sworn police officers with full law enforcement authority.

About ABC

I don't think anybody's got authority when they don't bother to identify themselves as such.

 

[Connery]

These are BEVERAGE CONTROL agents. You know, supposed to stop under age kids buying beer. Why are they armed?




" In an age of Big Government, when a strange man jumps on the hood of your car late at night and draws a gun on you, he’s almost certain, statistically speaking, to be a safety inspector from the Bureau of Compliance rather than the local rapist. So sleep easy!" Steyn

Virginia ABC Special Agents are sworn police officers with full law enforcement authority.

About ABC

I don't think anybody's got authority when they don't bother to identify themselves as such.

It is the state that gives the authority in this situation and according to the Daly they did identify themselves.

She panicked and hit them with her car..

 

[Pogo]

Virginia ABC Special Agents are sworn police officers with full law enforcement authority.

About ABC

I don't think anybody's got authority when they don't bother to identify themselves as such.

It is the state that gives the authority in this situation and according to the Daly they did identify themselves.

She panicked and hit them with her car..

That's not what the article says. It actually says "they were showing unidentifiable badges" and since they were also jumping on the hood, trying to break the windows and were seven men surrounding three girls, and since holding up a badge that can't be read is something any thug could do, going again by the description we have, she did the right thing trying to get to safety from what for all the world looks like a rape gang.

Think about it -- if you're walking to your car with a 12-pack of water (or even beer) is it reasonable to expect seven guys to pounce with guns, window smashing and jumping on the hood? Does that sound like reasonable behaviour for legitimate police? Even if you were underage with beer, which in this incident wasn't even close to the case?

Of course not. So the logical conclusion in the moment is that they're there for no honorable purpose. I mean come on, they're attacking with guns and violence, and all she did was buy some snacks. What other conclusion could you reach in a split second?

There's no excuse for this kind of abuse of power. None.

If the agents really believed they were watching a beer buy and suspected the buyer underage, would not the logical course be to let them get started and then pull them over for a search?
A SWAT team of seven on a grocery shopper? Really?

 

[Connery]

I don't think anybody's got authority when they don't bother to identify themselves as such.

It is the state that gives the authority in this situation and according to the Daly they did identify themselves.

She panicked and hit them with her car..

That's not what the article says. It actually says "they were showing unidentifiable badges" and since they were also jumping on the hood, trying to break the windows and were seven men surrounding three girls, and since holding up a badge that can't be read is something any thug could do, going again by the description we have, she did the right thing trying to get to safety from what for all the world looks like a rape gang.

Think about it -- if you're walking to your car with a 12-pack of water (or even beer) is it reasonable to expect seven guys to pounce with guns, window smashing and jumping on the hood? Does that sound like reasonable behaviour for legitimate police? Even if you were underage with beer, which in this incident wasn't even close to the case?

Of course not. So the logical conclusion in the moment is that they're there for no honorable purpose. I mean come on, they're attacking with guns and violence, and all she did was buy some snacks. What other conclusion could you reach in a split second?

There's no excuse for this kind of abuse of power. None.

If the agents really believed they were watching a beer buy and suspected the buyer underage, would not the logical course be to let them get started and then pull them over for a search?
A SWAT team of seven on a grocery shopper? Really?

ABC showed their badges, the woman panicked. The media wants to get as many minds going like hamsters on a wheel as they can. The ABC needs to revamp their procedures. There is not much more to this.


This is a nothing story. It is important to the woman I understand that. It should be important to ABC other than that there is not much else to garner from this story; of course other than what the media wants the public to believe.

 

[Pogo]

It is the state that gives the authority in this situation and according to the Daly they did identify themselves.

She panicked and hit them with her car..

That's not what the article says. It actually says "they were showing unidentifiable badges" and since they were also jumping on the hood, trying to break the windows and were seven men surrounding three girls, and since holding up a badge that can't be read is something any thug could do, going again by the description we have, she did the right thing trying to get to safety from what for all the world looks like a rape gang.

Think about it -- if you're walking to your car with a 12-pack of water (or even beer) is it reasonable to expect seven guys to pounce with guns, window smashing and jumping on the hood? Does that sound like reasonable behaviour for legitimate police? Even if you were underage with beer, which in this incident wasn't even close to the case?

Of course not. So the logical conclusion in the moment is that they're there for no honorable purpose. I mean come on, they're attacking with guns and violence, and all she did was buy some snacks. What other conclusion could you reach in a split second?

There's no excuse for this kind of abuse of power. None.

If the agents really believed they were watching a beer buy and suspected the buyer underage, would not the logical course be to let them get started and then pull them over for a search?
A SWAT team of seven on a grocery shopper? Really?

ABC showed their badges, the woman panicked. The media wants to get as many minds going like hamsters on a wheel as they can. The ABC needs to revamp their procedures. There is not much more to this.


This is a nothing story. It is important to the woman I understand that. It should be important to ABC other than that there is not much else to garner from this story; of course other than what the media wants the public to believe.

Nobody's posted on the proclivity of media to sensationalize more than me but sometimes truth is stranger than hype. So I keep coming back to this -- regardless of badges, regardless of absence of uniforms ........ SEVEN people swat-teaming a car, pulling guns, smashing windows, jumping on the car ..... on suspicion of buying underage beer? That just does not pass any kind of smell test.

And I'm not at all convinced the officers properly showed their badges. It happens way too often. It's certainly happened to me and I'm sure I'm not unusual.

We cannot allow police to just overrun the land like this. This is not by any stretch an isolated case. It's happening to somebody right now. So this is anything but a "nothing story". These guys MUST be held accountable.

Sorry Connery, but somebody has to stand up for the people here.

 

[Pogo]

>> What ABC officials ignore is that Ms. Daly did exactly what women are told to do in a suspicious situation — told to do by law enforcement officials. The safety procedure is to get away from the possible danger as quickly as possible and go to a safe area — ideally, a police station. If a badge is flashed, the advice is to call police to verify authenticity.

Ms. Daly says she and her passengers were trying to get to a police station and were trying to call police on a cellphone. After fleeing, Ms. Daly then stopped for an identifiable police vehicle with lights flashing. She said she apologized to officers when she realized what was happening.

But it&#8217;s the ABC that should apologize. Authorities were wrong &#8212; wrong about the alcohol buy, wrong to terrify three innocent young women and wrong to place charges against Ms. Daly for trying to protect herself and her friends. << -- ABC Agents Went Too Far in Response (The Daily Progress, Charlottesville VA)

 

[The2ndAmendment]

Holy shit, even witht he charges dropped, the sheer arrogance and audacity to even bring the charges to begin with!

I bet they asked for a jury trial, instead of being intimidated int a plea bargain - bang - charges dropped!

 

[Pogo]

Holy shit, even witht he charges dropped, the sheer arrogance and audacity to even bring the charges to begin with!

I bet they asked for a jury trial, instead of being intimidated int a plea bargain - bang - charges dropped!

I believe the DA simply dropped all the charges after reviewing the case. Probably on the basis of cutting their losses to avoid even further scandal.

Here's the other scary part - from the article:
>> It&#8217;s unclear why Chapman&#8217;s investigation took some 80 days. <<

EIGHTY DAYS to figure this out. Over two and a half months. Remember the day you filed your tax return at the deadline? This happened before that.

 

[NoNukes]

All charges were dropped.... non-issue other than her starting her car when approach by police, hitting two officers with her car, and running from law enforcement officers.

Spending the night in jail is not a non issue. As for her trying to get away, let us imagine you had a daughter and some assholes tried to jump her in a parking lot. Would you expect her to a) let them kidnap and rape her, or b) get the **** out of there using whatever force is necessary to protect herself?

She saw their badges. I would want my daughter to respect the law enforcement officers.

 

[NoNukes]

I don't think anybody's got authority when they don't bother to identify themselves as such.

It is the state that gives the authority in this situation and according to the Daly they did identify themselves.

She panicked and hit them with her car..

That's not what the article says. It actually says "they were showing unidentifiable badges" and since they were also jumping on the hood, trying to break the windows and were seven men surrounding three girls, and since holding up a badge that can't be read is something any thug could do, going again by the description we have, she did the right thing trying to get to safety from what for all the world looks like a rape gang.

Think about it -- if you're walking to your car with a 12-pack of water (or even beer) is it reasonable to expect seven guys to pounce with guns, window smashing and jumping on the hood? Does that sound like reasonable behaviour for legitimate police? Even if you were underage with beer, which in this incident wasn't even close to the case?

Of course not. So the logical conclusion in the moment is that they're there for no honorable purpose. I mean come on, they're attacking with guns and violence, and all she did was buy some snacks. What other conclusion could you reach in a split second?

There's no excuse for this kind of abuse of power. None.

If the agents really believed they were watching a beer buy and suspected the buyer underage, would not the logical course be to let them get started and then pull them over for a search?
A SWAT team of seven on a grocery shopper? Really?

If she were armed, would she have had the right too shoot them?

 

[Connery]

That's not what the article says. It actually says "they were showing unidentifiable badges" and since they were also jumping on the hood, trying to break the windows and were seven men surrounding three girls, and since holding up a badge that can't be read is something any thug could do, going again by the description we have, she did the right thing trying to get to safety from what for all the world looks like a rape gang.

Think about it -- if you're walking to your car with a 12-pack of water (or even beer) is it reasonable to expect seven guys to pounce with guns, window smashing and jumping on the hood? Does that sound like reasonable behaviour for legitimate police? Even if you were underage with beer, which in this incident wasn't even close to the case?

Of course not. So the logical conclusion in the moment is that they're there for no honorable purpose. I mean come on, they're attacking with guns and violence, and all she did was buy some snacks. What other conclusion could you reach in a split second?

There's no excuse for this kind of abuse of power. None.

If the agents really believed they were watching a beer buy and suspected the buyer underage, would not the logical course be to let them get started and then pull them over for a search?
A SWAT team of seven on a grocery shopper? Really?

ABC showed their badges, the woman panicked. The media wants to get as many minds going like hamsters on a wheel as they can. The ABC needs to revamp their procedures. There is not much more to this.


This is a nothing story. It is important to the woman I understand that. It should be important to ABC other than that there is not much else to garner from this story; of course other than what the media wants the public to believe.

Nobody's posted on the proclivity of media to sensationalize more than me but sometimes truth is stranger than hype. So I keep coming back to this -- regardless of badges, regardless of absence of uniforms ........ SEVEN people swat-teaming a car, pulling guns, smashing windows, jumping on the car ..... on suspicion of buying underage beer? That just does not pass any kind of smell test.

And I'm not at all convinced the officers properly showed their badges. It happens way too often. It's certainly happened to me and I'm sure I'm not unusual.

We cannot allow police to just overrun the land like this. This is not by any stretch an isolated case. It's happening to somebody right now. So this is anything but a "nothing story". These guys MUST be held accountable.

Sorry Connery, but somebody has to stand up for the people here.

I do, nevertheless, based on the facts presented the woman saw the badges and sought to escape anyway. When everything is reduced to facts, all parties are at fault here. Leave the media out and we have an individual who had the shit scared out of her by the rape seminar she just left, an aggressive team of ABC agents and a great deal of miscommunication and possible abuse of authority. As I stated previously this agency needs to revamp their policies and procedures. That does not dismiss the woman's overreaction to the situation and using her car to hit the agents. While she did not recognize the badges that were shown to her that does not excuse her behavior.

 

[JWBooth]

All charges were dropped.... non-issue other than her starting her car when approach by police, hitting two officers with her car, and running from law enforcement officers.

Hardly a non issue when innocent citizens have their freedoms denied.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Did the officers clearly identify themselves is the only relevant question here that needs to be answered.

Good point. They wore plain clothes so their intent was to hide their identity.

Now, could the police adequately identify themselves to people who were afraid and trying to escape attack? I think not.

Any idiot can get a fake badge and say they're a cop

 

[Pogo]

ABC showed their badges, the woman panicked. The media wants to get as many minds going like hamsters on a wheel as they can. The ABC needs to revamp their procedures. There is not much more to this.


This is a nothing story. It is important to the woman I understand that. It should be important to ABC other than that there is not much else to garner from this story; of course other than what the media wants the public to believe.

Nobody's posted on the proclivity of media to sensationalize more than me but sometimes truth is stranger than hype. So I keep coming back to this -- regardless of badges, regardless of absence of uniforms ........ SEVEN people swat-teaming a car, pulling guns, smashing windows, jumping on the car ..... on suspicion of buying underage beer? That just does not pass any kind of smell test.

And I'm not at all convinced the officers properly showed their badges. It happens way too often. It's certainly happened to me and I'm sure I'm not unusual.

We cannot allow police to just overrun the land like this. This is not by any stretch an isolated case. It's happening to somebody right now. So this is anything but a "nothing story". These guys MUST be held accountable.

Sorry Connery, but somebody has to stand up for the people here.

I do, nevertheless, based on the facts presented the woman saw the badges and sought to escape anyway. When everything is reduced to facts, all parties are at fault here. Leave the media out and we have an individual who had the shit scared out of her by the rape seminar she just left, an aggressive team of ABC agents and a great deal of miscommunication and possible abuse of authority. As I stated previously this agency needs to revamp their policies and procedures. That does not dismiss the woman's overreaction to the situation and using her car to hit the agents. While she did not recognize the badges that were shown to her that does not excuse her behavior.

I still don't see it. If the woman had seen the badge and realized they were legitimate police, and the package contained water (which it did), then what reason would there be to run? Doesn't add up. The only explanation is that she did not have that impression, so she did what law enforcement tells women they are supposed to do when approached by strange people in the dark -- get away from the aggressor and call police. That is not overreaction. It would be suicidal to react any other way.

And yes, not being able to verify the badges -- if they showed them at all, which (a) I have significant doubts about and (b) it was described as very dark-- it does excuse her behavior. She did exactly what she's supposed to do to protect herself given the information available at the moment. Those guys could have been any kind of gang in the dark, and the idea of a seven-member SWAT team swarming a car, smashing windows, drawing guns and jumping on the hood on suspicion of beer is simply NOT behaviour that would imply any kind of legitimate police.

Damn right she did the right thing, and if she didn't do what she did in any similar situation we'd likely be reading about where her body parts were dug up. When the police are acting like thugs ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves a problem. And it's not with us.

 

[Pogo]

All charges were dropped.... non-issue other than her starting her car when approach by police, hitting two officers with her car, and running from law enforcement officers.

Spending the night in jail is not a non issue. As for her trying to get away, let us imagine you had a daughter and some assholes tried to jump her in a parking lot. Would you expect her to a) let them kidnap and rape her, or b) get the **** out of there using whatever force is necessary to protect herself?

She saw their badges. I would want my daughter to respect the law enforcement officers.

Doesn't make sense. If she saw the badges, and the package was water (which it was), then what reason is there to run?
You wouldn't run from legitimate police, and when they were pulled over down the road, the flashing lights being an indication of legitimate police, they did stop. You would run from what looks like a rape gang.

If she were armed, would she have had the right too shoot them?

There is an interesting question.
As we usually interpret the law, seems to me she would have been well within her rights to do that. Of course considering the same SIG would be the ones subsequently investigating, justice would likely be, shall we say, elusive.

In practice of course, what would probably happen if she was armed and the ABC agents are too, would be what always happens to violence in the presence of firearms -- escalation. We would have had several bodies in the Harris Teeter parking lot ---- all because some yahoo thought a 12-pack of water might be beer. Seriously?

We have some fucked up values. If seven people jumping a car in the dark with guns against three young women isn't the textbook definition of "excessive force", nothing is.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Spending the night in jail is not a non issue. As for her trying to get away, let us imagine you had a daughter and some assholes tried to jump her in a parking lot. Would you expect her to a) let them kidnap and rape her, or b) get the **** out of there using whatever force is necessary to protect herself?

She saw their badges. I would want my daughter to respect the law enforcement officers.

Doesn't make sense. If she saw the badges, and the package was water (which it was), then what reason is there to run?

The better question is what reason did the cops have to detain her.

 

[Connery]

Nobody's posted on the proclivity of media to sensationalize more than me but sometimes truth is stranger than hype. So I keep coming back to this -- regardless of badges, regardless of absence of uniforms ........ SEVEN people swat-teaming a car, pulling guns, smashing windows, jumping on the car ..... on suspicion of buying underage beer? That just does not pass any kind of smell test.

And I'm not at all convinced the officers properly showed their badges. It happens way too often. It's certainly happened to me and I'm sure I'm not unusual.

We cannot allow police to just overrun the land like this. This is not by any stretch an isolated case. It's happening to somebody right now. So this is anything but a "nothing story". These guys MUST be held accountable.

Sorry Connery, but somebody has to stand up for the people here.

I do, nevertheless, based on the facts presented the woman saw the badges and sought to escape anyway. When everything is reduced to facts, all parties are at fault here. Leave the media out and we have an individual who had the shit scared out of her by the rape seminar she just left, an aggressive team of ABC agents and a great deal of miscommunication and possible abuse of authority. As I stated previously this agency needs to revamp their policies and procedures. That does not dismiss the woman's overreaction to the situation and using her car to hit the agents. While she did not recognize the badges that were shown to her that does not excuse her behavior.

I still don't see it. If the woman had seen the badge and realized they were legitimate police, and the package contained water (which it did), then what reason would there be to run? Doesn't add up. The only explanation is that she did not have that impression, so she did what law enforcement tells women they are supposed to do when approached by strange people in the dark -- get away from the aggressor and call police. That is not overreaction. It would be suicidal to react any other way.

And yes, not being able to verify the badges -- if they showed them at all, which (a) I have significant doubts about and (b) it was described as very dark-- it does excuse her behavior. She did exactly what she's supposed to do to protect herself given the information available at the moment. Those guys could have been any kind of gang in the dark, and the idea of a seven-member SWAT team swarming a car, smashing windows, drawing guns and jumping on the hood on suspicion of beer is simply NOT behaviour that would imply any kind of legitimate police.

Damn right she did the right thing, and if she didn't do what she did in any similar situation we'd likely be reading about where her body parts were dug up. When the police are acting like thugs ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves a problem. And it's not with us.

The sense? It is called obeying a lawful order. After which she could have filed a complaint with the authorities. As it is she took the law into her own hands based upon her irrational fears. A LEO showed a badge and she claims she did not recognize it ... and penitentiaries are filled with inmates who claim they are innocent . Based upon your rationale we should set them free.