U.S. may lose top credit rating soon, Moody's says

[Flopper]

Yes, I fully understand that the federal government have dislocated our economy so bad that reducing the influence at this point in time is going to cause severe pain and inconvenience.

But the same thing would happen if my docotr was to tell me that I have cancer. So my dilemma then would be do I remove the tumor now or do I wait until it metastasizes.

Clearly, I must agree to the limited surgery and not wait until the problem compounds.

.

Sounds more like a lobotomy

Sorry to hear that? Did they diagnose you with brain cancer?

Is that the reason your posts lack cohesion?

.

If you are seriously suggested we return to the goal standard, I would be interested in how that might be done.

 

[Contumacious]

Sounds more like a lobotomy

Sorry to hear that? Did they diagnose you with brain cancer?

Is that the reason your posts lack cohesion?

.

If you are seriously suggested we return to the goal standard, I would be interested in how that might be done.

Read:

Repudiating the National Debt

Murray N. Rothbard

Repudiating the National Debt - Murray N. Rothbard - Mises Daily

.

 

[Polk]

It means a petulant Obama refused to do what is right for the American people.

Obama cannot raise the debt ceiling. You need to learn a bit more about how our govt is supposed to operate.

Congress can't raise it either, moron.

You need to shut up so everyone won't learn what a numskull you are.

Please, explain how "Congress can't raise it".

 

[Trajan]

I think its time to note, or remind those that may have forgotten, that default is not really the question, its were we go from there.....the problem does not end at raising the ceiling;


Will coming debt ceiling deal save America’s AAA credit rating?
Jul 15, 2011 07:34 EDT

Keeping America’s gold-plated credit rating may take both a deal to raise the debt ceiling (which will happen) and a meaningful deficit reduction plan of around $4 trillion (which is not happening).

Moody’s says it wants a ”deficit trajectory that leads to stabilization and then decline in the ratios of federal government to GDP and debt to revenue beginning within the next few years.” And here is Standard & Poor’s in a report released last night:

If a debt ceiling agreement does not include a plan that seems likely to us to credibly stabilize the U.S.’ medium-term debt dynamics but the result of the debt ceiling negotiations leads us to believe that such a plan could be negotiated within a few months, all other things unchanged, we expect to affirm both the long- and short-term ratings and assign a negative outlook, If such an agreement is reached, but we do not believe that it likely will stabilize the U.S.’ debt dynamics, we, again all other things unchanged, would expect to lower the long-term ‘AAA rating, affirm the ‘A-1+’ short-term rating, and assign a negative outlook on the long-term rating.


and


Looking at the most likely scenario out there right now, Goldman Sachs has its doubts (bold is mine):

“Using our baseline projections as a starting point, the $1.7trn agreement we outline would represent substantial progress, but would probably fall short of Moody’s criteria. That said, we view any agreement that is reached this year as a first step; tax and entitlement reform efforts look likely following the election in 2013. With a cyclically-adjusted primary deficit of around 6% of GDP in 2011, additional consolidation clearly will be necessary, and thus we view this as the first round of what will ultimately need to be multiple deficit reduction measures over the next few years.”


James Pethokoukis | Analysis & Opinion | Reuters.com



we may get past the debt ceiling for now, but the underlying and critical issue remains.

The problem I see with any agreement is it can be changed by congress at any time. What would actually happen, I believe is that a crisis would arise such as another deep recession. Voters would demand the government do something and Congress respond with tax cuts or increased government spending, probably both and the agreement would be worthless.

thats why we need the BB amend. with the 2/3's voting requirement. it constricts them all.

 

[Chris]

45% of Americans don't pay federal income tax.

The super rich have had their average tax rate lowered from 26% to 17% in the last 20 years.

Our taxes are too low and our spending is too high.

We need to reduce spending and increase taxes.

Simple mathematics.

 

[saveliberty]

We should lose our top rating. Even if we pass a debt ceiling increase, we still can't pay it down.

 

[WillowTree]

45% of Americans don't pay federal income tax.

The super rich have had their average tax rate lowered from 26% to 17% in the last 20 years.

Our taxes are too low and our spending is too high.

We need to reduce spending and increase taxes.

Simple mathematics.

What we need to do is cut up our credit cards and deal on a cash only basis.. And it 51% not 45%..

 

[saveliberty]

There you go bringing numbers into the discussion Willow. Sheesh!

If its more than ten fingers, no comprendo.

 

[Mustang]

45% of Americans don't pay federal income tax.

The super rich have had their average tax rate lowered from 26% to 17% in the last 20 years.

Our taxes are too low and our spending is too high.

We need to reduce spending and increase taxes.

Simple mathematics.

The US is a consumer driven economy. Consume, consume, CONSUME! Credit just fueled that tendency. Consumer credit AND Gov't credit. The American economy was like a guy hopped up on speed. We had to crash eventully. Now, we're anemic and in bad need of tough medicine. For average Americans, it will be a painful withdrawl with horrible symptoms. While average Americans will suffer in a large ward full of of sick patients and recovering drug addicts who will get very poor care on the road to recovery, the rich will have a lovely private suite and will be waited on hand and foot.

Yeah, we just CAN'T raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans.

 

[Yoda]

So, does this mean that we can't borrow any more money from China? Or does this mean we get a sucky APR?

 

[Sactowndog]

<sigh>

I'm seriously asking about the highlighted part.

A self-described conservative, Bush 43, attacks Afghanistan and botches the hunt for bin Laden, resulting in the totally unbelievable presidential statement that he doesn't spend much time thinking about OBL. WTF?

Attack Iraq for nonexistent WMD? What's up with that?

Can't get to New Orleans for four friggin' days after Katrina? I could have driven to NO in my car in one day!

Prescription drug benefit (Medicare D) with NO bargaining for the lowest cost?

Going to bring down our credit rating because they won't raise the debt ceiling or taxes? WTF?

You left out lowering personal tax rates and capital gains taxes on the wrong side of the Laffer curve while keeping corporate rates at historic highs.

Ignoring any regulation of the derivative market so that it would crater

Bush and Hoover are fighting it out for the worst President in history

 

[Sactowndog]

It is far worse than that. See: Debt Clock.
- Money printed in past 2 years for bailout & stimulus per Tax Payer = $18,000
- USA current debt per Citizen = $46,500
- USA current debt per Family = $176,571
- USA current debt per Tax Payer = $129,740
- USA Unfunded Liabilities per Tax Payer = $1,026,100

So honest question.... knowing this why wouldn't rational people believe we have to reform Medicare and Medicaide, look to eliminate overseas military committments, and raise taxes off historical lows.

The problem is so big all must obviously be done. Not 1 not 2 but all 3

 

[saveliberty]

Yes we need to do all three. Now, here's the problem...

If we raise taxes, where do you think the money will go? I think any additional tax collected should go exclusively to paying down the debt. If we are committed to doing this, it should be no issue.

Also, Congress has a tendency to grow government, we need far MORE cuts than are on the table.

Any solution should cause pain to everyone. Anything less and you played favorites. Also, both parties should equally share the blame for the solution. They both helped with the problem.

 

[Flopper]

Sorry to hear that? Did they diagnose you with brain cancer?

Is that the reason your posts lack cohesion?

.

If you are seriously suggested we return to the goal standard, I would be interested in how that might be done.

Read:

Repudiating the National Debt

Murray N. Rothbard

Repudiating the National Debt - Murray N. Rothbard - Mises Daily

.

No mention of gold

 

[Flopper]

It is far worse than that. See: Debt Clock.
- Money printed in past 2 years for bailout & stimulus per Tax Payer = $18,000
- USA current debt per Citizen = $46,500
- USA current debt per Family = $176,571
- USA current debt per Tax Payer = $129,740
- USA Unfunded Liabilities per Tax Payer = $1,026,100

So honest question.... knowing this why wouldn't rational people believe we have to reform Medicare and Medicaide, look to eliminate overseas military committments, and raise taxes off historical lows.

The problem is so big all must obviously be done. Not 1 not 2 but all 3

Reducing Medicare costs are all about reducing the cost of delivering healthcare. That is a long and convoluted process. In order to reduce costs now, there is only one possible alternative and that is to reduce reimbursements to health care providers. This ends up increasing the cost to seniors, many of which can't afford current co-pays and coinsurance. That pushes the cost onto Medicaid and other government programs.

 

[Trajan]

I marked the time for one example as to why I think we are here, right now....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KHdhrNhh88&feature=player_detailpage#t=203s

 

[Mustang]

<sigh>

I'm seriously asking about the highlighted part.

A self-described conservative, Bush 43, attacks Afghanistan and botches the hunt for bin Laden, resulting in the totally unbelievable presidential statement that he doesn't spend much time thinking about OBL. WTF?

Attack Iraq for nonexistent WMD? What's up with that?

Can't get to New Orleans for four friggin' days after Katrina? I could have driven to NO in my car in one day!

Prescription drug benefit (Medicare D) with NO bargaining for the lowest cost?

Going to bring down our credit rating because they won't raise the debt ceiling or taxes? WTF?

You left out lowering personal tax rates and capital gains taxes on the wrong side of the Laffer curve while keeping corporate rates at historic highs.

Ignoring any regulation of the derivative market so that it would crater

Bush and Hoover are fighting it out for the worst President in history

I left out a LOT. It's frankly depressing to list the monumental failings of the previous administration. I really never would have believed that a president could screw up so many things to the degree Bush did. It boggles my mind. If it was written in a book of fiction, it wouldn't seem believable.

 

[Contumacious]

No mention of gold

Which Gold Standard?

Which definition we choose, then, depends on what kind of gold standard we would like to attain. At the very least, it must be a genuine gold standard, that is, the dollar must be tied to gold permanently at a fixed weight, and must be redeemable in gold coin at that weight. That rules out all forms of pseudo gold standards such as the 1933-1971 monetary system of the United States, or its subset, the Bretton Woods system of 1945-1971. It rules out, similarly, the pseudo gold standard advocated by the supply-side economists, who would go back to something like Bretton Woods. There would then be no gold coin redemption, and, even worse than Bretton Woods, which at least kept a fixed dollar weight in gold, the Federal Reserve would be able to manipulate the dollar definition at will, in attempting to fine tune the economy to achieve such macroeconomic goals as full employment or price level stability."

The Case for Genuine Gold Dollar - - Mises Institute

.

 

[Flopper]

No mention of gold

Which Gold Standard?

Which definition we choose, then, depends on what kind of gold standard we would like to attain. At the very least, it must be a genuine gold standard, that is, the dollar must be tied to gold permanently at a fixed weight, and must be redeemable in gold coin at that weight. That rules out all forms of pseudo gold standards such as the 1933-1971 monetary system of the United States, or its subset, the Bretton Woods system of 1945-1971. It rules out, similarly, the pseudo gold standard advocated by the supply-side economists, who would go back to something like Bretton Woods. There would then be no gold coin redemption, and, even worse than Bretton Woods, which at least kept a fixed dollar weight in gold, the Federal Reserve would be able to manipulate the dollar definition at will, in attempting to fine tune the economy to achieve such macroeconomic goals as full employment or price level stability."

The Case for Genuine Gold Dollar - - Mises Institute

.

But fact is we do not have enough gold to allow dollars to be redeemed for gold, not near enough. So how can you possibility back up the currency with gold that you don't have? Makes no sense.

 

[Contumacious]

No mention of gold

Which Gold Standard?

Which definition we choose, then, depends on what kind of gold standard we would like to attain. At the very least, it must be a genuine gold standard, that is, the dollar must be tied to gold permanently at a fixed weight, and must be redeemable in gold coin at that weight. That rules out all forms of pseudo gold standards such as the 1933-1971 monetary system of the United States, or its subset, the Bretton Woods system of 1945-1971. It rules out, similarly, the pseudo gold standard advocated by the supply-side economists, who would go back to something like Bretton Woods. There would then be no gold coin redemption, and, even worse than Bretton Woods, which at least kept a fixed dollar weight in gold, the Federal Reserve would be able to manipulate the dollar definition at will, in attempting to fine tune the economy to achieve such macroeconomic goals as full employment or price level stability."

The Case for Genuine Gold Dollar - - Mises Institute

.

But fact is we do not have enough gold to allow dollars to be redeemed for gold, not near enough. So how can you possibility back up the currency with gold that you don't have? Makes no sense.

1) The Constitution was adopted for you benefit

2) If you are an American then it is your responsibility to support and defend it

3) The powers-that-be reacted to the 1st economic collapse by adopting fascism

4) More than likely they will react to a second economic collapse by adopting socialism

5) If you are not a parasite , if you are not a sheeple, and you love individual liberty then why do you want to risk living under tyranny?!?!?!?

.