U.N. rights inquiry says Israel must remove settlers

[proudveteran06]

Point is the land never "belonged" to the Arabs...

70% of it did at the time of the zionist migration.

Translation; Jews do t have the right to live there? Typical Racist, Bigoted Anti Semetic pro Palestinian mindset
A

 

[Billo_Really]

Translation; The Jews do not have the right to live there. Typical bigoted , racist, Jew Hating Pro Palestinian

Wrong. The jews have a right to live there to. They just can't do it in the areas designated for the Palestinian's. The jews have their land and the Pals have a right to theirs as well.

Why do you have to fly from one extreme to the other? This isn't an either/or situation. Either it's the jews land, or it's the arabs land. Those are not the choices. Both cultures can live side by side, if you fuckin' zionists start showing a little respect for others.

All the hostility started when zionists migrated in showing absolutely no respect for the rights of the indigenous people already living there. When it became clear to the arabs that their rights were being systematically taken from them, they got violent. Anyone in that situation would do the same. You try to take my rights away from me, I'm gonna kick your ass! But since you respect my rights, we don't have to go there. You do respect them, do you? I respect yours.

But what do I know? I'm not jewish and I'm not muslim. But a fellow zionist, on the other hand, can sum up my point this way...

Ahad Ha'am warned against the violation of the rights of the Palestinian people, and his words are well known in the literature of Palestine.

"... Ahad Ha'am warned that the settlers must under no circumstances arouse the wrath of the natives ... 'Yet what do our brethren do in Palestine? Just the very opposite! Serfs they were in the lands of the Diaspora and suddenly they find themselves in unrestricted freedom and this change has awakened in them an inclination to despotism. They treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, deprive them of their rights, offend them without cause and even boast of these deeds; and nobody among us opposes this despicable and dangerous inclination ...'

"Ahad Ha'am returned to the Arab problem ... in February 1914 ... '[the Zionists] wax angry towards those who remind them that there is still another people in Eretz Yisrael that has been living there and does not intend at all to leave its place. In a future when this illusion will have been torn from their hearts and they will look with open eyes upon the reality as it is, they will certainly understand how important this question is and how great our duty to work for its solution'."

You get what you give.

 

[Billo_Really]

Translation; The Jews do not have the right to live there. Typical bigoted , racist, Jew Hating Pro Palestinian

The truth is, you want people to hate jews, because that validates your own hatred of muslims.

My issue is with Israeli's. I could care less how someone chooses to worship.

 

[Billo_Really]

Sovereignty rights were with the indigenous peoples with the right of self determination over the land, and they still are. That has never changed.

That is correct.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There is a minor problem with your analysis.

Basically, the League of Nations mandates were to appoint an established country to assist a defined group of people in developing an independent state according to the wishes of the people. The mandate was based on the universally recognized right to self determination as enshrined in international law.

(COMMENT)

This is not correlated in time correctly. (Possibly Bad Research) And, there seems to be a mix-up between which documents say what.

LoN mandates were supervised by the Permanent Mandates Commission. The mandate system was replaced by the UN Trusteeship System in 1946. Each individual Mandate specified the purpose and the authorities under the mandate. The welfare of the Arab and Jewish were address at the time, relative to the purpose of the Mandate.

The principle of self-determination is prominently embodied in Article I of the Charter of the United Nations. Earlier it was explicitly embraced by US President Woodrow Wilson, by Lenin and others, and became the guiding principle for the reconstruction of Europe following World War I. The principle was incorporated into the 1941 Atlantic Charter and the Dumbarton Oaks proposals which evolved into the United Nations Charter. Its inclusion in the UN Charter marks the universal recognition of the principle as fundamental to the maintenance of friendly relations and peace among states. It is recognized as a right of all peoples in the first article common to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights which both entered into force in 1976. 1 Paragraph 1 of this Article provides:

All peoples have the right to self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
SOURCE: UNPO: Self-determination

Read the dates in the underlined passages.

The Mandates were created in 1922. No such passage was in THE COVENANT OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS of 1919. Laws cannot be applied retroactively. You cannot pass a law today that makes last years contract illegal, if it was otherwise legal at the time it was created. The UN Charter came into force on 24 October 1945.



You will notice that the actual Article in the Charter does not say that "All peoples have the right to self-determination." That does not come until much, much later, in 1976; in a different form altogether.

Britain violated the League of Nations Covenant and international law. Instead of creating an independent state for the people according to their wishes, Britain shoved the people aside and catered to the agenda of a group of foreigners.

(COMMENT)

This is based on a bad (very bad) assumption. You cannot make an otherwise lawful action taken last year, retroactively illegal today.

This entire conflict is based on the violation of international law. Only recently has the world began a push to have these laws enforced. When that happens we will see an end of the conflict.

(COMMENT)

Still cannot retroactively apply laws that didn't exist at the time of the transaction. The UK did not violate any laws; and the complete transaction was supervised by the LoN/UN through the Permanent Mandates Commission/UN Trusteeship System.

(POST REMARKS)

I honestly don't know where these ideas come from that everyone was conspiring against the poor Palestinians. That wasn't the case at all. That is merely a group that is playing the part of the victim. The UK did everything it was suppose to do and within the parameters of the law as it existed at the time.

Most Respectfully,
R

That is an interesting compilation of the evolution of the right to self determination. However, the existence of that right predates those various conventions. To say that the right to self determination is something new would be incorrect.

The idea of the League was to eliminate four fatal flaws of the old European states: in place of competing monarchical empires - of which the Hapsburg Empire was perhaps the most notorious - the principle of national self-determination would create a world of independent nation states, free of outside interference;...

BBC - History - World Wars: The League of Nations and the United Nations

Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, 28 June 1919

Article 22. To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization and that securities for the formance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.

The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances.

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

The League of Nations Mandate Provision

Even in 1919 the League of Nations recognized the rights of the people under the mandates.

The Palestinian's struggle for self determination is not over.

The preferred outcome of an exercise of the right to self-determination varies greatly among the members of the UNPO. For some, the only acceptable outcome is full political independence. This is particularly true of occupied or colonized nations. For others, the goal is a degree of political, cultural and economic autonomy, sometimes in the form of a federal relationship. For others yet, the right to live on and manage a people's traditional lands free of external interference and incursion is the essential aim of a struggle for self-determination.

UNPO: Self-determination

Palestine is still an occupied and colonized country. Palestine was officially occupied in 1949 after the creation of the UN Charter. So all of the "newer" rights apply.

 

[Indofred]

I wonder how many of the defenders of the Israeli state against the evil UN, supported the UN when it said bad things about Iraq.

I'm taking a shot the pro Zionists were all happy about the wonderful UN then but hate the bastard UN now.

 

[jillian]

BBC News - UN: Israeli settlements 'violate Palestinian rights'

Israeli settlements in the occupied territories violate Palestinians' human rights in ways designed to drive them off the land, a UN report states.

The report says settlements displace Palestinians, destroy their crops and property, and subject them to violence.

Israel refused to co-operate with the inquiry by three UN researchers.

The Israeli foreign ministry said the report from the UN Human Rights Council was "counterproductive" and would hamper the peace process.

"counterproductive" and would hamper the peace process?
I think they mean, They've been caught red handed.

Screw Israel's bastard government.

and what authority do they have, anti-semite?

perhaps you should tell the pals to make a deal and stop lobbing bombs. they might find the results better.

but why would terrorist supporting scum like you do that?

 

[Indofred]

The Palestinian's struggle for self determination is not over..

It will be when Israel dies. Sooner or later, the US taxpayers will realise they've been ripped off and the murder money will stop.
Then it's just time.
I predict, most Israelis will bugger off to where ever their second passports allow them (like rats leaving a sinking ship), leaving just the harshest of the idiot Zionists who will fight a last ditch war and die in some stupid attempt to murder as many Arabs as possible.
The American's last action in Israel will be to remove as many nuclear weapons as possible so no one can nuke the US in revenge for all the dead people the US supplied weapons have murdered.

 

[thanatos144]

there is no Palestine....Why do you Jew haters ***** keep saying there is?

 

[Billo_Really]

there is not Palestine....Why do you Jew haters ***** keep saying there is?

The name is irrelevant.

The people who were living there for generations have rights to.

 

[thanatos144]

there is not Palestine....Why do you Jew haters ***** keep saying there is?

The name is irrelevant.

The people who were living there for generations have rights to.

They are from Jordan you ******* idiot!

 

[Billo_Really]

They are from Jordan you ******* idiot!

Doesn't matter where they are from, they've been living in that area for over a 1000 years.

Zionists aren't from there, but they're there now.

 

[thanatos144]

They are from Jordan you ******* idiot!

Doesn't matter where they are from, they've been living in that area for over a 1000 years.

Zionists aren't from there, but they're there now.

No they haven't. thats the point you bigot.

 

[Billo_Really]

No they haven't. thats the point you bigot.

Here's the land ownership in that area in 1948.



Here's the zionist migration into that area.




You can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

 

[thanatos144]

No they haven't. thats the point you bigot.

Here's the land ownership in that area in 1948.



Here's the zionist migration into that area.




You can't move into an area and automatically have more rights than the people already living there.

First there is NO way to prove any of that and if we are talking historical....Jews were their first. Now hater go jerk off to more images of Hitler.

 

[Billo_Really]

First there is NO way to prove any of that and if we are talking historical....Jews were their first. Now hater go jerk off to more images of Hitler.

That is the proof and what happened 2000 years ago, don't mean shit today.

 

[thanatos144]

First there is NO way to prove any of that and if we are talking historical....Jews were their first. Now hater go jerk off to more images of Hitler.

That is the proof and what happened 2000 years ago, don't mean shit today.

Just sad.

 

[Billo_Really]

Just sad.

When you come to a debate forum and don't have a valid argument, that's exactly what it is.

 

[Lipush]

Hay Loiny, look at that, he sounds just like you. Just from our side. lol.

 

[georgephillip]

Hay Loiny, look at that, he sounds just like you. Just from our side. lol.

Would that be the side of Rothschild?

"The Balfour Declaration (dated 2 November 1917) was a letter from the United Kingdom's Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Baron Rothschild (Walter Rothschild, 2nd Baron Rothschild), a leader of the British Jewish community, for transmission to the Zionist Federation of Great Britain and Ireland.

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."

Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia