Two Things Congressional Conservatives Dont Seem To Grasp About the AHCA

[JimBowie1958]

There are many issues, but two things I keep hearing from conservative law makeres that places them in the Ignorant zone are:

1. They are opposed to keeping the ACA entitlement. Sorry, but once the federal government gives an entitlement that tens of millions of people then come to depend on to maintain their life style, you cant just yank the rug out from under them by ending it. At most one might slowly withdraw it over a decade or two, but no, if you kill it there will be a new group of tens of millions of people who are going to vote against you every time they get a chance; i.e. it is political suicide. I know a lot of conservatives prefer to slowly stroke their copy of "Atlas Shrugged" in preference to serving the American people, but thems the Realities here.

2. The Budget Reconciliation process can only be done once a year. If this bill is defeated, Senator Rand Paul, NO,you will NOT get a second shot to rebuild a new bill. You will have to submit an entirely new bill that then has to hurdle over the 60 vote threshold to end a filibuster. To do that you will have to bring in some moderate Democrat Senators and that means coming up with aan even MORE MODERATE piece of legislation.

Conservatives in Congress, please, pull your heads out of your collective asses and realize that these two things will hurt you, not help you.

Grow the hell up and pass this damned bill as it is likely your last shot at keeping your campaign pledges to end the worst features of Obamacare..

 

[Siete]

There are many issues, but two things I keep hearing from conservative law makeres that places them in the Ignorant zone are:

1. They are opposed to keeping the ACA entitlement. Sorry, but once the federal government gives an entitlement that tens of millions of people then come to depend on to maintain their life style, you cant just yank the rug out from under them by ending it. At most one might slowly withdraw it over a decade or two, but no, if you kill it there will be a new group of tens of millions of people who are going to vote against you every time they get a chance; i.w. it is political suicide. I know a lot of conservatives prefer to slowly stroke their copy of Atlas Shrugged to serving the American people, but thems the Realities here.

2. The Budget Reconciliation process can only be done once a year. If this bill is defeated, Senator Rand Paul, NO,you will NOT get a second shot to rebuild a new bill. You will have to submit an entirely new bill that then has to hurdle over the 60 vote threshold to end a filibuster. To do that you will have to bring in some moderate Democrat Senators and that means coming up with aan even MORE MODERATE piece of legislation.

Conservatives in Congress, please, pull your heads out of your collective asses and realize that these two things will hurt you, not help you.

Grow the hell up and pass this damned bill as it is likely your last shot at keeping your campaign pledges to end the worst features of Obamacare..

and miss an opportunity to shoot themselves in both feet ?

surely ye jest ...

BOOM! (click click) BOOM!

too late.

told ya.

 

[JimBowie1958]

and miss an opportunity to shoot themselves in both feet ?

surely ye jest ...

Yeah, I wish I could say you are wrong, but you do have the historical record on your side in this case.

The GOP is ever ready to form a circular firing squad.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The most basic problem conservatives have is that the American people don't want their brand of national healthcare.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The 17% of Americans who like the AHCA respectfully listen to Jim Bowie. N\o vote today.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The most basic problem conservatives have is that the American people don't want their brand of national healthcare.

Then why are they in control of both houses of Congress and the Oval Office, Sherlock?

 

[Wyatt earp]

There are many issues, but two things I keep hearing from conservative law makeres that places them in the Ignorant zone are:

1. They are opposed to keeping the ACA entitlement. Sorry, but once the federal government gives an entitlement that tens of millions of people then come to depend on to maintain their life style, you cant just yank the rug out from under them by ending it. At most one might slowly withdraw it over a decade or two, but no, if you kill it there will be a new group of tens of millions of people who are going to vote against you every time they get a chance; i.e. it is political suicide. I know a lot of conservatives prefer to slowly stroke their copy of "Atlas Shrugged" in preference to serving the American people, but thems the Realities here.

2. The Budget Reconciliation process can only be done once a year. If this bill is defeated, Senator Rand Paul, NO,you will NOT get a second shot to rebuild a new bill. You will have to submit an entirely new bill that then has to hurdle over the 60 vote threshold to end a filibuster. To do that you will have to bring in some moderate Democrat Senators and that means coming up with aan even MORE MODERATE piece of legislation.

Conservatives in Congress, please, pull your heads out of your collective asses and realize that these two things will hurt you, not help you.

Grow the hell up and pass this damned bill as it is likely your last shot at keeping your campaign pledges to end the worst features of Obamacare..

Stop the buckshit..its a propaganda tool... Newsflash people will lose health insurance because...


Wait for it


Wait for it


Because they don't want to buy it.




.

 

[Defiant1]

The most basic problem conservatives have is that the American people don't want their brand of national healthcare.

Are you trying to say conservatives aren't American people?

 

[DGS49]

The decision to purchase insurance SHOULD be a personal one, based on one's own perception of the cost-benefit relationship. State governments can legitimately get involved in this decision with respect to Auto Insurance, because it is good policy to ensure that anyone potentially causing great damage has the means to compensate the victims, at least to a certain extent.

The Federal Government HAS NO RIGHT to demand that anyone purchase health insurance, as reiterated by the USSC a few years ago.

If fewer people buy insurance because they choose not to buy insurance THAT IS A GOOD THING.

 

[bendog]

There are many issues, but two things I keep hearing from conservative law makeres that places them in the Ignorant zone are:

1. They are opposed to keeping the ACA entitlement. Sorry, but once the federal government gives an entitlement that tens of millions of people then come to depend on to maintain their life style, you cant just yank the rug out from under them by ending it. At most one might slowly withdraw it over a decade or two, but no, if you kill it there will be a new group of tens of millions of people who are going to vote against you every time they get a chance; i.e. it is political suicide. I know a lot of conservatives prefer to slowly stroke their copy of "Atlas Shrugged" in preference to serving the American people, but thems the Realities here.

2. The Budget Reconciliation process can only be done once a year. If this bill is defeated, Senator Rand Paul, NO,you will NOT get a second shot to rebuild a new bill. You will have to submit an entirely new bill that then has to hurdle over the 60 vote threshold to end a filibuster. To do that you will have to bring in some moderate Democrat Senators and that means coming up with aan even MORE MODERATE piece of legislation.

Conservatives in Congress, please, pull your heads out of your collective asses and realize that these two things will hurt you, not help you.

Grow the hell up and pass this damned bill as it is likely your last shot at keeping your campaign pledges to end the worst features of Obamacare..

Atlas Shrugged is a nice addition. The Freedom Caucus no matter how well intended is living a fantasy. After a world war nearly 80 years ago ended up providing HC to nearly all Americans, and nearly 70 years of tax expenditures for employers to provide HC, and 50 years of medicare ... WE ARE NOT moving to a market whereby no one gets any tax benefit beyond a tax credit and we all bargain independently with some mythological market of surgeons for knee replacements or whatever.

We can make choosing policeis more competittuve. The Germans do it, so do the Poles and French. But Ayn Rand ain't gonna get it done.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Stop the buckshit..its a propaganda tool... Newsflash people will lose health insurance because...
Because they don't want to buy it.
.

Yes, the CBO estimates that some 14 million will simply drop the health insurance because they will no longer be forced to buy it, but another 10 million over ten years will lose it through no choice of their own.

But then again, the OP was addressing a slightly different issue; GOP feckless inability to cooperate and get things done.

They are still stuck in opposition mode it seems.

 

[bendog]

Stop the buckshit..its a propaganda tool... Newsflash people will lose health insurance because...
Because they don't want to buy it.
.

Yes, the CBO estimates that some 14 million will simply drop the health insurance because they will no longer be forced to buy it, but another 10 million over ten years will lose it through no choice of their own.

But then abain, the OP was addressing a slightly different issue; GOP feckless inability to cooperate and get things done.

They are still stuck in opposition mode it seems.

These are NOT issues without solution. They do defy inflexible ideology.

For healthy people who'd rather gamble on not getting really sick and who figure they can afford to go to walk in clinics for the flu and such, we can make it very painfully financialy for them if they get really sick, without just leaving them to die without chemo or making the rest of us pay for their irresponsible choice.

We can provide some level of care to lower income people who dont' qualify for traditional Medicaid without putting everyone on Medicaid.

 

[JimBowie1958]

The conservatives want to drop the two most popular provisions of the ACA.

They are flipping idiots.

Thursday vote on health care bill canceled

The conservatives' target list encompasses a prohibition against discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions and a requirement that adults up to age 26 can remain on their parents’ health insurance.

“Repealing [essential health benefits], w/out making other substantial changes, would make the bill worse, not better,” tweeted Freedom Caucus member Justin Amash (R-Mich.). “It would hurt the sickest people on exchanges.”

The Freedom Caucus has been a constant thorn in the side of House GOP leadership, sinking bills its members believe were too accommodating to Democrats. The group was expected to fall in line behind Trump after he won, but it has refused to do so on the health care bill.

Now, Freedom Caucus members are threatening to trip up not John Boehner or Ryan, but a Republican commander-in-chief who remains highly popular in their districts.

Many House Republicans are furious with the Freedom Caucus, saying the group keeps moving the goal posts and that it really wants to sink the health care bill altogether.​

 

[Syriusly]

The decision to purchase insurance SHOULD be a personal one, based on one's own perception of the cost-benefit relationship. State governments can legitimately get involved in this decision with respect to Auto Insurance, because it is good policy to ensure that anyone potentially causing great damage has the means to compensate the victims, at least to a certain extent.

The Federal Government HAS NO RIGHT to demand that anyone purchase health insurance, as reiterated by the USSC a few years ago.

If fewer people buy insurance because they choose not to buy insurance THAT IS A GOOD THING.

Yes- so when those people get hit on their motorcycles when riding without a helmet, and get sent to the hospital for 6 months of recovery- then we the tax payers get to pay for their bills.

What a great plan!

 

[Syriusly]

The conservatives want to drop the two most popular provisions of the ACA.

They are flipping idiots.

Thursday vote on health care bill canceled

The conservatives' target list encompasses a prohibition against discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions and a requirement that adults up to age 26 can remain on their parents’ health insurance.

“Repealing [essential health benefits], w/out making other substantial changes, would make the bill worse, not better,” tweeted Freedom Caucus member Justin Amash (R-Mich.). “It would hurt the sickest people on exchanges.”

The Freedom Caucus has been a constant thorn in the side of House GOP leadership, sinking bills its members believe were too accommodating to Democrats. The group was expected to fall in line behind Trump after he won, but it has refused to do so on the health care bill.

Now, Freedom Caucus members are threatening to trip up not John Boehner or Ryan, but a Republican commander-in-chief who remains highly popular in their districts.

Many House Republicans are furious with the Freedom Caucus, saying the group keeps moving the goal posts and that it really wants to sink the health care bill altogether.​

I am just waiting for it to dawn on people that there is not one thing in this bill which is actually designed to lower insurance premiums.(Or so we think- none of us have actually seen the bill- it is being rammed through without members being able to actually read it- remember when the GOP claimed that was what happened with the ACA?)

The biggest outrage about the ACA was that insurance rates kept going up- and there is nothing here that actually specifically addresses the insurance cost increase.

Millions will chose to not buy insurance- I question the economic gains from that- but millions will lose their insurance not by choice- and insurance premiums will continue to rise.

Fewer people insured- not actually addressing insurance premium increases- this so far is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Syriusly]

The conservatives want to drop the two most popular provisions of the ACA.

They are flipping idiots.

Thursday vote on health care bill canceled

The conservatives' target list encompasses a prohibition against discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions and a requirement that adults up to age 26 can remain on their parents’ health insurance.

“Repealing [essential health benefits], w/out making other substantial changes, would make the bill worse, not better,” tweeted Freedom Caucus member Justin Amash (R-Mich.). “It would hurt the sickest people on exchanges.”

The Freedom Caucus has been a constant thorn in the side of House GOP leadership, sinking bills its members believe were too accommodating to Democrats. The group was expected to fall in line behind Trump after he won, but it has refused to do so on the health care bill.

Now, Freedom Caucus members are threatening to trip up not John Boehner or Ryan, but a Republican commander-in-chief who remains highly popular in their districts.

Many House Republicans are furious with the Freedom Caucus, saying the group keeps moving the goal posts and that it really wants to sink the health care bill altogether.​

Then there are the moderates who oppose the bill because it included defunding of planned parenthood.

I know that defunding PP is the darling of the conservatives who want to prevent poor women from having access to contraception- but if you want to actually repeal the ACA- pretty stupid to put in features that pretty much insures that at least two- if not more GOP senators will vote against it.

 

[bendog]

The conservatives want to drop the two most popular provisions of the ACA.

They are flipping idiots.

Thursday vote on health care bill canceled

The conservatives' target list encompasses a prohibition against discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions and a requirement that adults up to age 26 can remain on their parents’ health insurance.

“Repealing [essential health benefits], w/out making other substantial changes, would make the bill worse, not better,” tweeted Freedom Caucus member Justin Amash (R-Mich.). “It would hurt the sickest people on exchanges.”

The Freedom Caucus has been a constant thorn in the side of House GOP leadership, sinking bills its members believe were too accommodating to Democrats. The group was expected to fall in line behind Trump after he won, but it has refused to do so on the health care bill.

Now, Freedom Caucus members are threatening to trip up not John Boehner or Ryan, but a Republican commander-in-chief who remains highly popular in their districts.

Many House Republicans are furious with the Freedom Caucus, saying the group keeps moving the goal posts and that it really wants to sink the health care bill altogether.​

I am just waiting for it to dawn on people that there is not one thing in this bill which is actually designed to lower insurance premiums.(Or so we think- none of us have actually seen the bill- it is being rammed through without members being able to actually read it- remember when the GOP claimed that was what happened with the ACA?)

The biggest outrage about the ACA was that insurance rates kept going up- and there is nothing here that actually specifically addresses the insurance cost increase.

Millions will chose to not buy insurance- I question the economic gains from that- but millions will lose their insurance not by choice- and insurance premiums will continue to rise.

Fewer people insured- not actually addressing insurance premium increases- this so far is a recipe for disaster.

I've had some crap days at work and am out of here. But I did put this link up once before and "bitter pill" by Brill is available free online. The panel discussion includes Emanual who is sort of Obamacare's "god father." He sort of talks over the others, but Brill makes it pretty clear that the ACA was supposed to make insurance companies compete, and they don't. The overall theory is if one giant insurance monopoly can't get customers by negotiating costs down with providers, another giant insurance monopoly will come it to the market. That hasn't worked. And thus far, I don't think serious people have discussed why that seemingly rational market theory hasn't worked.

the Freedom Caucus (bless their pointy hats) means well in wanting a competitive market.

Why Healthcare in America Is So Expensive | TIME.com

 

[bendog]

The conservatives want to drop the two most popular provisions of the ACA.

They are flipping idiots.

Thursday vote on health care bill canceled

The conservatives' target list encompasses a prohibition against discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions and a requirement that adults up to age 26 can remain on their parents’ health insurance.

“Repealing [essential health benefits], w/out making other substantial changes, would make the bill worse, not better,” tweeted Freedom Caucus member Justin Amash (R-Mich.). “It would hurt the sickest people on exchanges.”

The Freedom Caucus has been a constant thorn in the side of House GOP leadership, sinking bills its members believe were too accommodating to Democrats. The group was expected to fall in line behind Trump after he won, but it has refused to do so on the health care bill.

Now, Freedom Caucus members are threatening to trip up not John Boehner or Ryan, but a Republican commander-in-chief who remains highly popular in their districts.

Many House Republicans are furious with the Freedom Caucus, saying the group keeps moving the goal posts and that it really wants to sink the health care bill altogether.​

Then there are the moderates who oppose the bill because it included defunding of planned parenthood.

I know that defunding PP is the darling of the conservatives who want to prevent poor women from having access to contraception- but if you want to actually repeal the ACA- pretty stupid to put in features that pretty much insures that at least two- if not more GOP senators will vote against it.

True, and I have no argument with PP personally. However the ACA does provide wellness without paying copays deductables. So, I don't really see how defunding PP will prevent women from getting cost effective preventive care and contraception ... for free. A great idea, btw.

 

[Syriusly]

The conservatives want to drop the two most popular provisions of the ACA.

They are flipping idiots.

Thursday vote on health care bill canceled

The conservatives' target list encompasses a prohibition against discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions and a requirement that adults up to age 26 can remain on their parents’ health insurance.

“Repealing [essential health benefits], w/out making other substantial changes, would make the bill worse, not better,” tweeted Freedom Caucus member Justin Amash (R-Mich.). “It would hurt the sickest people on exchanges.”

The Freedom Caucus has been a constant thorn in the side of House GOP leadership, sinking bills its members believe were too accommodating to Democrats. The group was expected to fall in line behind Trump after he won, but it has refused to do so on the health care bill.

Now, Freedom Caucus members are threatening to trip up not John Boehner or Ryan, but a Republican commander-in-chief who remains highly popular in their districts.

Many House Republicans are furious with the Freedom Caucus, saying the group keeps moving the goal posts and that it really wants to sink the health care bill altogether.​

Then there are the moderates who oppose the bill because it included defunding of planned parenthood.

I know that defunding PP is the darling of the conservatives who want to prevent poor women from having access to contraception- but if you want to actually repeal the ACA- pretty stupid to put in features that pretty much insures that at least two- if not more GOP senators will vote against it.

True, and I have no argument with PP personally. However the ACA does provide wellness without paying copays deductables. So, I don't really see how defunding PP will prevent women from getting cost effective preventive care and contraception ... for free. A great idea, btw.

PP provides contraceptive and healthcare services to millions of American women. Defunding the PP will deny those services to those women.

 

[Syriusly]

The conservatives want to drop the two most popular provisions of the ACA.

They are flipping idiots.

Thursday vote on health care bill canceled

The conservatives' target list encompasses a prohibition against discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions and a requirement that adults up to age 26 can remain on their parents’ health insurance.

“Repealing [essential health benefits], w/out making other substantial changes, would make the bill worse, not better,” tweeted Freedom Caucus member Justin Amash (R-Mich.). “It would hurt the sickest people on exchanges.”

The Freedom Caucus has been a constant thorn in the side of House GOP leadership, sinking bills its members believe were too accommodating to Democrats. The group was expected to fall in line behind Trump after he won, but it has refused to do so on the health care bill.

Now, Freedom Caucus members are threatening to trip up not John Boehner or Ryan, but a Republican commander-in-chief who remains highly popular in their districts.

Many House Republicans are furious with the Freedom Caucus, saying the group keeps moving the goal posts and that it really wants to sink the health care bill altogether.​

I am just waiting for it to dawn on people that there is not one thing in this bill which is actually designed to lower insurance premiums.(Or so we think- none of us have actually seen the bill- it is being rammed through without members being able to actually read it- remember when the GOP claimed that was what happened with the ACA?)

The biggest outrage about the ACA was that insurance rates kept going up- and there is nothing here that actually specifically addresses the insurance cost increase.

Millions will chose to not buy insurance- I question the economic gains from that- but millions will lose their insurance not by choice- and insurance premiums will continue to rise.

Fewer people insured- not actually addressing insurance premium increases- this so far is a recipe for disaster.

I've had some crap days at work and am out of here. But I did put this link up once before and "bitter pill" by Brill is available free online. The panel discussion includes Emanual who is sort of Obamacare's "god father." He sort of talks over the others, but Brill makes it pretty clear that the ACA was supposed to make insurance companies compete, and they don't. The overall theory is if one giant insurance monopoly can't get customers by negotiating costs down with providers, another giant insurance monopoly will come it to the market. That hasn't worked. And thus far, I don't think serious people have discussed why that seemingly rational market theory hasn't worked.

the Freedom Caucus (bless their pointy hats) means well in wanting a competitive market.

Why Healthcare in America Is So Expensive | TIME.com

Oh everyone means well........

But you are correct- no one is actually talking in regards to this bill why the market isn't working- and why healthcare insurance is so high in America.