Trump's trade war with China

[Brain357]

But some people had to find new jobs, and that is just not fair

Having to find a $9 and hour job to replace your $20 an hour job because "shareholders" want more money is not right.

We need pro worker policies. We have years of the opposite. Look at the huge Corp tax handout. That did nothing for workers.

Addressing the companies that off-shore is pro-worker.

What was done and how did it help workers?

Nothing has been done. That's my complaint.

What would you have done and how would it help?

 

[pknopp]

Lot's of wealth at the top and lot's of part time jobs.

Agreed. We also have lots of non competes. Lots of businesses with near monopoly. We have wage collusion. Right to work for less. Decline in unions. Trade isn’t the issue.

No trade itself but the reason for so much coming from overseas and the reasons why is a problem.

But we have plenty of jobs. So who cares lots come from overseas?

We have plenty of low paying part time jobs.

That isn’t chinas fault. Internal issue.

Have you not read my posts? I said that it wasn't China's fault.

 

[pknopp]

Having to find a $9 and hour job to replace your $20 an hour job because "shareholders" want more money is not right.

We need pro worker policies. We have years of the opposite. Look at the huge Corp tax handout. That did nothing for workers.

Addressing the companies that off-shore is pro-worker.

What was done and how did it help workers?

Nothing has been done. That's my complaint.

What would you have done and how would it help?

I would tax the profits of the American companies that move overseas, not tax the people who have little choice in many cases when they buy the products.

Or more precise, I would most likely raise the capital gains taxes on these companies and their investors.

 

[Brain357]

We need pro worker policies. We have years of the opposite. Look at the huge Corp tax handout. That did nothing for workers.

Addressing the companies that off-shore is pro-worker.

What was done and how did it help workers?

Nothing has been done. That's my complaint.

What would you have done and how would it help?

I would tax the profits of the American companies that move overseas, not tax the people who have little choice in many cases when they buy the products.

Or more precise, I would most likely raise the capital gains taxes on these companies and their investors.

I don’t see that helping workers.

 

[Brain357]

Agreed. We also have lots of non competes. Lots of businesses with near monopoly. We have wage collusion. Right to work for less. Decline in unions. Trade isn’t the issue.

No trade itself but the reason for so much coming from overseas and the reasons why is a problem.

But we have plenty of jobs. So who cares lots come from overseas?

We have plenty of low paying part time jobs.

That isn’t chinas fault. Internal issue.

Have you not read my posts? I said that it wasn't China's fault.

Some people need the reminder.

So do you agree with the issues I bring up? Non competes are terribly against the worker. Workers benefit from being able to offer services to highest bidder. This eliminates the benefits of capitalism.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

And we are doing well. Lots of wealth and really low unemployment.

Lot's of wealth at the top and lot's of part time jobs.

Agreed. We also have lots of non competes. Lots of businesses with near monopoly. We have wage collusion. Right to work for less. Decline in unions. Trade isn’t the issue.

No trade itself but the reason for so much coming from overseas and the reasons why is a problem.

But we have plenty of jobs. So who cares lots come from overseas?

We have plenty of low paying part time jobs.

This is false. The number of part time workers has been dropping since 2010 and is down to 17%, the lowest it has been since early 2000s.

Skilled labor is the 3rd biggest sector for unfilled jobs behind only the medical and analytics fields.

People need to quit waiting on time to go backwards and their factory jobs come back.

 

[pknopp]

Addressing the companies that off-shore is pro-worker.

What was done and how did it help workers?

Nothing has been done. That's my complaint.

What would you have done and how would it help?

I would tax the profits of the American companies that move overseas, not tax the people who have little choice in many cases when they buy the products.

Or more precise, I would most likely raise the capital gains taxes on these companies and their investors.

I don’t see that helping workers.

Those who were making $20 an hour but now making $9 are going to be signing up for things like food stamps. That has to be paid for somehow.

 

[Brain357]

What was done and how did it help workers?

Nothing has been done. That's my complaint.

What would you have done and how would it help?

I would tax the profits of the American companies that move overseas, not tax the people who have little choice in many cases when they buy the products.

Or more precise, I would most likely raise the capital gains taxes on these companies and their investors.

I don’t see that helping workers.

Those who were making $20 an hour but now making $9 are going to be signing up for things like food stamps. That has to be paid for somehow.

I’d rather get them into better jobs.

 

[pknopp]

No trade itself but the reason for so much coming from overseas and the reasons why is a problem.

But we have plenty of jobs. So who cares lots come from overseas?

We have plenty of low paying part time jobs.

That isn’t chinas fault. Internal issue.

Have you not read my posts? I said that it wasn't China's fault.

Some people need the reminder.

So do you agree with the issues I bring up? Non competes are terribly against the worker. Workers benefit from being able to offer services to highest bidder. This eliminates the benefits of capitalism.

I would accept "capitalism" but that is a moot point because we are never going to actually practice that.

Things like offering services to the highest bidder and non competes don't apply so much to the group we are discussing.

 

[pknopp]

Lot's of wealth at the top and lot's of part time jobs.

Agreed. We also have lots of non competes. Lots of businesses with near monopoly. We have wage collusion. Right to work for less. Decline in unions. Trade isn’t the issue.

No trade itself but the reason for so much coming from overseas and the reasons why is a problem.

But we have plenty of jobs. So who cares lots come from overseas?

We have plenty of low paying part time jobs.

This is false. The number of part time workers has been dropping since 2010 and is down to 17%, the lowest it has been since early 2000s.

Skilled labor is the 3rd biggest sector for unfilled jobs behind only the medical and analytics fields.

People need to quit waiting on time to go backwards and their factory jobs come back.

Part Time Employment in the United States increased to 26974 Thousand in August from 26861 Thousand in July of 2019. Part Time Employment in the United States averaged 20939.38 Thousand from 1968 until 2019,

United States Part Time Employment | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar

 

[pknopp]

Nothing has been done. That's my complaint.

What would you have done and how would it help?

I would tax the profits of the American companies that move overseas, not tax the people who have little choice in many cases when they buy the products.

Or more precise, I would most likely raise the capital gains taxes on these companies and their investors.

I don’t see that helping workers.

Those who were making $20 an hour but now making $9 are going to be signing up for things like food stamps. That has to be paid for somehow.

I’d rather get them into better jobs.

And buy the world a Coke and teach them to sing in perfect harmony?

 

[Brain357]

But we have plenty of jobs. So who cares lots come from overseas?

We have plenty of low paying part time jobs.

That isn’t chinas fault. Internal issue.

Have you not read my posts? I said that it wasn't China's fault.

Some people need the reminder.

So do you agree with the issues I bring up? Non competes are terribly against the worker. Workers benefit from being able to offer services to highest bidder. This eliminates the benefits of capitalism.

I would accept "capitalism" but that is a moot point because we are never going to actually practice that.

Things like offering services to the highest bidder and non competes don't apply so much to the group we are discussing.

Don’t underestimate who all has to sign non competes and how damaging they are to wages.

 

[Brain357]

What would you have done and how would it help?

I would tax the profits of the American companies that move overseas, not tax the people who have little choice in many cases when they buy the products.

Or more precise, I would most likely raise the capital gains taxes on these companies and their investors.

I don’t see that helping workers.

Those who were making $20 an hour but now making $9 are going to be signing up for things like food stamps. That has to be paid for somehow.

I’d rather get them into better jobs.

And buy the world a Coke and teach them to sing in perfect harmony?

Get rid of all the policy that hurts workers.

 

[Brain357]

But we have plenty of jobs. So who cares lots come from overseas?

We have plenty of low paying part time jobs.

That isn’t chinas fault. Internal issue.

Have you not read my posts? I said that it wasn't China's fault.

Some people need the reminder.

So do you agree with the issues I bring up? Non competes are terribly against the worker. Workers benefit from being able to offer services to highest bidder. This eliminates the benefits of capitalism.

I would accept "capitalism" but that is a moot point because we are never going to actually practice that.

Things like offering services to the highest bidder and non competes don't apply so much to the group we are discussing.

Non-Compete Clauses Are Strangling Our Lowest Paid Workers

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Agreed. We also have lots of non competes. Lots of businesses with near monopoly. We have wage collusion. Right to work for less. Decline in unions. Trade isn’t the issue.

No trade itself but the reason for so much coming from overseas and the reasons why is a problem.

But we have plenty of jobs. So who cares lots come from overseas?

We have plenty of low paying part time jobs.

This is false. The number of part time workers has been dropping since 2010 and is down to 17%, the lowest it has been since early 2000s.

Skilled labor is the 3rd biggest sector for unfilled jobs behind only the medical and analytics fields.

People need to quit waiting on time to go backwards and their factory jobs come back.

Part Time Employment in the United States increased to 26974 Thousand in August from 26861 Thousand in July of 2019. Part Time Employment in the United States averaged 20939.38 Thousand from 1968 until 2019,

United States Part Time Employment | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar

And full time employment was increased by 130,000.

 

[charwin95]

"At the request of the Vice Premier of China, Liu He, and due to the fact that the People's Republic of China will be celebrating their 70th Anniversary on October 1st, we have agreed, as a gesture of good will, to move the increased Tariffs on 250 Billion Dollars worth of goods (25% to 30%), from October 1st to October 15th." - President Trump just now on twitter

you cant make it up!

It's pretty evident that he knows what he's doing. When you're trying to win over a wild stray dog, you extend the back of your hand to let him sniff it, so the dog thinks you're offering a treat.

Trump is a master negotiator.

Master of negotiator? Let’s see.

I’m almost 3 years like what major or minor negotiations did Trumpits accomplished?

Iran, Turkey, Syria, North Korea, China, Taliban, Saudi sales ( blocked) ...... Are all in limbo.

And if you noticed barely or none of his GOPs ever spoke supports of his policies.

But he is in love with Putin. That I give you credits.

 

[charwin95]

No. We have done it Trump's way for decades. I'm not interested.

Well, if you on your side of the aisle, ever manage to nominate a candidate against the wishes of your corporate approved leadership, and he/she addresses these issues, AS YOU SEE FIT, ie (focusing on corporations and employers)


know that I will listen and I will be interested.

I don't have a side of the aisle.

I like that we have established that we have the same goal, ie the best interests of the American people, both as a group and individually.


Not everyone is on that page. But we are. Let's keep that in mind.

Just wondering, do you think that I am on that page?

Your "adapt or die" comment shows that you, at best,, do not care about the interests of at least some Americans.

I always wonder what is your philosophy and principles in life........ That is If you have any.
Adapt or die is the most basic survival in life.....

If I did not adapt I could be out of business by now.

If my engineers did not upgrade and adapt they could be sitting next or replaced by an indian engineers by now.

Blackberry cellphone did not adapt to new technology. I think they are out of business.

 

[pknopp]

No trade itself but the reason for so much coming from overseas and the reasons why is a problem.

But we have plenty of jobs. So who cares lots come from overseas?

We have plenty of low paying part time jobs.

This is false. The number of part time workers has been dropping since 2010 and is down to 17%, the lowest it has been since early 2000s.

Skilled labor is the 3rd biggest sector for unfilled jobs behind only the medical and analytics fields.

People need to quit waiting on time to go backwards and their factory jobs come back.

Part Time Employment in the United States increased to 26974 Thousand in August from 26861 Thousand in July of 2019. Part Time Employment in the United States averaged 20939.38 Thousand from 1968 until 2019,

United States Part Time Employment | 2019 | Data | Chart | Calendar

And full time employment was increased by 130,000.

I've addressed this quite a few times.

 

[Correll]

Saying that they can "die" is not looking out for their interests. It is dismissing them.

Die is a bit extreme, but it is in their long term interest to change and adapt.

Accepting a $9.00 and hour job to replace the $20 an hour job that went overseas so that someone that never created anything can get a better return is not in the countries best interest.

Getting a job that is more productive is. There is no long term success in propping up a business that can't compete.

That is the same thing the economists said back in the 70s.


And then those jobs never showed up.


And if they did, people like you gave them to cheaper immigrants. Or outsourced them.

As I've pointed out many times, getting a job that is more productive can work for the individual, not for millions.

People like Brain conflate advice for individuals with policy to serve the interests of a community.


They say it, not as a real policy position, but for the emotional impact of saying something that sounds like something, the person they are talking to believes.


But, believes in, in a completely different context.

 

[Correll]

Yes, but why do you ask?

You seem to want government managed trade. That isn’t capitalism. Much more socialism. Do you believe in markets?

Pretending that the choices are trade without any government trade policy, or "government managed trade", is something an anarchist would do.


A very dishonest anarchist.


Meanwhile in the real world, this thread is about Trade Policy. And no serious person would be pretending that the idea of trade policy is not legitimate in a capitalist system.



So, why you playing such a dishonest game?

Dishonest? I think you just don’t like the game. I think the best trade policy is free trade. It’s determined by the traders, not the government. You seem to think big gov is better at determining trade. I disagree.

Allowing our trading "partners" to practice trade policy designed to benefit their people by ******* ours, is not "Free Trade",

it is being the world's ***** on trade.

This is not China's fault. They twisted no one's arms to get them to move production there. This is where we do not agree. The solution is not in addressing the country, the solution is addressing the businesses that went there.

That is where we disagree.


And I do not "blame" China. THeir government's job is to serve the interests of their people, as individuals and as a group.


And they have been doing so, with an aggressive trade policy.



YOur point about the business's being at fault is, to a great extent, true.


But businesses, do not set the rules, of the market place. Government trade policy does.


You got some business, run by a wonder person who is a proud American, and insists on paying his American workers, a reasonable American wage,


and you let his asshole competitors, move their production to Chinese manufacturers, who pay their people one tenth of the American wages,


And you are creating an environment that encourages asshole behavior.