More voters, voted against him, than for him in 2024.....
Trump Versus Our Oldest Enemy
- Thread starter PoliticalChic
- Start date
Stryder50
Platinum Member
Well 'Tonto', as usual you fail to get your facts straight, nor draw the correct conclusions. Your linked article also drops the ball, but then it is a batch 'pravda' = communist propaganda. Like many Left Wing-nut Loonies you blur the distinctions between HUAC and McCarthy's activities.
I doubt we'll get your feeble mind adjusted, but for the sake of any readers here, let's clear the smoke-screen coming out of the fog in your braincells.
We'll start with something most internet users should be able to do and use; Wiki;
...
The House Committee on Un-American Activities (HCUA), popularly the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), was an investigative committee of the United States House of Representatives, created in 1938 to investigate alleged disloyalty and subversive activities on the part of private citizens, public employees, and those organizations suspected of having communist ties. It became a standing (permanent) committee in 1946, and from 1969 onwards it was known as the House Committee on Internal Security. When the House abolished the committee in 1975,<a href="House Un-American Activities Committee - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a> its functions were transferred to the House Judiciary Committee.
The committee's anti-communist investigations are often associated with McCarthyism, although Joseph McCarthy himself (as a U.S. Senator) had no direct involvement with the House committee.<a href="House Un-American Activities Committee - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a><a href="House Un-American Activities Committee - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a> McCarthy was the chairman of the Government Operations Committee and its Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations of the U.S. Senate, not the House.
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House Un-American Activities Committee - Wikipedia
Note that HUAC is in the House part of Congress, McCarthy was in the Senate. Note that HUAC had been active for 15+ years before McCarthy began his investigations, which we will link a source on;
------------------
...
Joseph Raymond McCarthy (November 14, 1908 ā May 2, 1957) was an American politician who served as a Republican U.S. Senator from the state of Wisconsin from 1947 until his death at age 48 in 1957. Beginning in 1950, McCarthy became the most visible public face of a period in the United States in which Cold War tensions fueled fears of widespread communist subversion.<a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a> He alleged that numerous communists and Soviet spies and sympathizers had infiltrated the United States federal government, universities, film industry,<a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a><a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a> and elsewhere. Ultimately he was censured by the Senate in 1954 for refusing to cooperate with and abusing members of the committee established to investigate whether or not he should be censured. The term "McCarthyism", coined in 1950 in reference to McCarthy's practices, was soon applied to similar anti-communist activities. Today the term is used more broadly to mean demagogic, reckless, and unsubstantiated accusations, as well as public attacks on the character or patriotism of political opponents.<a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a><a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a>
...
A Democrat until 1944, McCarthy successfully ran for the U.S. Senate in 1946 as a Republican, narrowly defeating incumbent Robert M. La Follette Jr. in the Wisconsin Republican primary, then Democratic challenger Howard McMurray by a 61% ā 37% margin. After three largely undistinguished years in the Senate McCarthy rose suddenly to national fame in February 1950 when he asserted in a speech that he had a list of "members of the Communist Party and members of a spy ring" who were employed in the State Department.<a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>9<span>]</span></a> In succeeding years after his 1950 speech, McCarthy made additional accusations of Communist infiltration into the State Department, the administration of President Harry S. Truman, the Voice of America, and the U.S. Army. He also used various charges of communism, communist sympathies, disloyalty, or sex crimes to attack a number of politicians and other individuals inside and outside of government.<a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>10<span>]</span></a> This included a concurrent "Lavender Scare" against suspected homosexuals, whose illicit sexual activity was presumed to make them vulnerable to blackmail by communists and others.<a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a>
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[It's a very lengthy Wiki article, but near the bottom/end, there is this;]
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Reconsideration
McCarthy remains a controversial figure. Arthur Herman, popular historian and senior fellow of the Hudson Institute, says that new evidenceāin the form of Venona-decrypted Soviet messages, Soviet espionage data now opened to the West, and newly released transcripts of closed hearings before McCarthy's subcommitteeāhas partially vindicated McCarthy by showing that some of his identifications of Communists were correct and the scale of Soviet espionage activities in the United States during the 1940s and 1950s was larger than many scholars had suspected.<a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>193<span>]</span></a>In Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Senator Joe McCarthy and His Fight Against America's Enemies, journalist M. Stanton Evans similarly argued that evidence from the Venona documents shows significant penetration by Soviet agents.<a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>194<span>]</span></a>Historian John Earl Haynes, who studied the Venona decryptions extensively, challenged Herman's efforts to rehabilitate McCarthy, arguing that McCarthy's attempts to "make anti-communism a partisan weapon" actually "threatened [the post-War] anti-Communist consensus", thereby ultimately harming anti-Communist efforts more than helping them.<a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>195<span>]</span></a> Haynes concluded that, of the 159 people who were identified on lists used or referenced by McCarthy, evidence only substantially proved that nine of them had aided Soviet espionage effortsāwhile several hundred Soviet spies were actually known based on Venona and other evidence, most were never named by McCarthy. Haynes' own view was that a number of those accused on McCarthy's lists above, perhaps a majority, likely posed some form of possible security risk, but a significant minority of others likely did not, and several were indisputably no risk at all.<a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>196<span>]</span></a><a href="Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>197<span>]</span></a>
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Joseph McCarthy - Wikipedia
Let's take a look at Venona .....
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The Venona project was a United States counterintelligence program initiated during World War II by the United States Army's Signal Intelligence Service and later absorbed by the National Security Agency (NSA), that ran from February 1, 1943, until October 1, 1980.<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a> It was intended to decrypt messages transmitted by the intelligence agencies of the Soviet Union (e.g. the NKVD, the KGB, and the GRU).<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> Initiated when the Soviet Union was an ally of the US, the program continued during the Cold War, when the Soviet Union was considered an enemy.
During the 37-year duration of the Venona project, the Signal Intelligence Service decrypted and translated approximately 3,000 messages.<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a> The signals intelligence yield included discovery of the Cambridge Five espionage ring in the United Kingdom,<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a> and also of Soviet espionage of the Manhattan Project in the US,<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a> known as Project Enormous. Some of the espionage was undertaken to support the Soviet atomic bomb project.<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a> The Venona project remained secret for more than 15 years after it concluded. Some of the decoded Soviet messages were not declassified and published by the United States until 1995.<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>7<span>]</span></a><a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a>
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Significance
The decrypted messages gave important insights into Soviet behavior in the period during which duplicate one-time pads were used. With the first break into the code, Venona revealed the existence of Soviet espionage<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>32<span>]</span></a> at the Manhattan Project's Site Y (Los Alamos).<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>33<span>]</span></a> Identities soon emerged of American, Canadian, Australian, and British spies in service to the Soviet government, including Klaus Fuchs, Alan Nunn May, and Donald Maclean. Others worked in Washington in the State Department, the Treasury, OSS,<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>34<span>]</span></a> and even the White House.The messages show that the US and other nations were targeted in major espionage campaigns by the Soviet Union as early as 1942. Among those identified are Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White (the second-highest official in the Treasury Department), Lauchlin Currie<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>35<span>]</span></a> (a personal aide to Franklin Roosevelt), and Maurice Halperin<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>36<span>]</span></a> (a section head in the Office of Strategic Services).
The identification of individuals mentioned in Venona transcripts is sometimes problematic, since people with a "covert relationship" with Soviet intelligence are referenced by cryptonyms.<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>37<span>]</span></a> Further complicating matters is the fact the same person sometimes had different cryptonyms at different times, and the same cryptonym was sometimes reused for different individuals. In some cases, notably Hiss, the matching of a Venona cryptonym to an individual is disputed. In many other cases, a Venona cryptonym has not yet been linked to any person. According to authors John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr, the Venona transcripts identify approximately 349 Americans who they claim had a covert relationship with Soviet intelligence, though fewer than half of these have been matched to real-name identities.<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>38<span>]</span></a> However, not every agent may have been communicating directly with Soviet intelligence. Each of those 349 persons may have had many others working for, and reporting only to, them.
The OSS, the predecessor to the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), housed at one time or another between fifteen and twenty Soviet spies.<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>39<span>]</span></a> Duncan Lee, Donald Wheeler, Jane Foster Zlatowski, and Maurice Halperin passed information to Moscow. The War Production Board, the Board of Economic Warfare, the Office of the Coordinator of Inter-American Affairs, and the Office of War Information, included at least half a dozen Soviet sources each among their employees.
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Controversy arose in 2009 over the Texas State Board of Education's revision of their high school history class curricula to suggest Venona shows Senator Joseph McCarthy to have been justified in his zeal in exposing those whom he believed to be Soviet spies or communist sympathizers.<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>80<span>]</span></a> Critics such as Emory University history professor Harvey Klehr assert most people and organizations identified by McCarthy, such as those brought forward in the Army-McCarthy hearings or rival politicians in the Democratic party, were not mentioned in the Venona content and that his accusations remain largely unsupported by evidence.<a href="Venona project - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>81<span>]</span></a>
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Venona project - Wikipedia
So what does all this point out ??? ;
1) House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), operated nominally from 1938 to 1975. That has it in existence about 15 years before McCarthy began his activities against domestic Communists, and also continued for over 20 years after McCarthy was out of the picture. HUAC cast a much broader net with focus on private and government citizens and assorted organizations, private and public. Hollywood investigations and "blacklisting' were almost exclusive HUAC AND those other organizations willing to work with and follow it's directions.
2) Joseph McCarthy was in the SENATE, his investigative activities were only a few years of operation, and his focus was mostly on those in the government. Almost nothing actually involving private business or 'Hollywood'.
He was admittedly a "loose canon", more sound than fury, and he did far less results, and misfires, than done by HUAC. Ironically it seems that too many fail to realize how much of the "Red Scare" was caused by HUAC, with relatively lesser done by McCarthy, though Joe seems to get most of the blame and angst.
3) Two decades after HUAC, and about four decades after McCarthy, we find out about Venona Project and the de classifieds show there were many targeted by both investigations who were actual Soviet spies/agents and/or sympathizers/dupes. Also some not suspected that were as well, along with some accused for whom no evidence implicating/convicting has yet to be found. While some may have gotten a raw deal ham-fisted, many others were actually working for the Enemy of the USA - found and convicted.
4) While Joseph McCarthy may have done more harm than good, his few years of efforts pale when compared to the nearly 40 years worth done by the House's Committee. But then with HUAC there were many names involved and the historians and reporters don't single out any one to be the scapegoat. McCarthy may have been a sleeze bag with how he did what he did, but hanging the whole bag of investigative processes and results upon his shoulders alone is highly inaccurate and a gross distortion.
But then inaccuracies and gross distortions are key items in the Leftist toolkit, so what can we expect.
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Stryder50
Platinum Member
No one has a right to a job.
Stryder50
Platinum Member
And you Lefty Wingnuts hurt people with your lies and false accusations.
Quid-pro-quo
Stryder50
Platinum Member
This being how you describe yourself;It wasn't a revolution princess. Trump's popular vote victory (1.5%) was one of the smallest ever.
Loadingā¦
thehill.com
You begin your OP with fake news revisionist history which pretty much casts doubt on whatever premise you may try to develop after that.
How is that?
By immediately doing everything he promised voters he would NOT do and by not doing anything he promised voters he would do?
How is that "returning power to the voters?"
This is pure conspiracy theory.
There is no real "deep state." That is only a fictional boogey-man created by the whacked-out, alcoholic, felon, Steve Bannon back in 2016 that found fertile ground in the dark roach infested crevices of online conspiracy sites like Q-Anon.
The "bureaucracy" is what keeps the government functioning....for YOU and everybody else.
I wouldn't trust the average American voter to take my goddamned garbage out, much less run the country. That's why we elect professionals who know what the hell they are doing in terms of policy, economics, diplomacy, international law, and so on.
Most American voters are REALLY fuckin' DUMB!
Half the people even on this message board don't even know what due process is or how constitutionally mandated checks and balances on the three branches of government are supposed to work.
You take that kind of abject stupidity and ignorance and then fan the flames of that ignorance with stupid conspiracy theories and PRESTO!
You get MAGAt voters.
Very eloquent and poetic imagery there princess.
Project much?
That is a stupid opinion. He was actually a Democrat.
Try again.
You have a habit of just making up alternative realities out of the ether and then posting them here in these long, rambling manifestos disguised as informed, political commentary.
It must be REALLY REALLY hard to live in your head with all the unicorns and trolls and other mythical beings vying for dominance.
Besides you MAGAts LOVE Fascists! Why, every month or so your favorite POTUS treats you to the spectacle of him sticking his tongue up the butt of yet another Fascist leader and you all jump up and down and cheer like rabid lemmings.
Fake News.
What they are doing within our government is typically referred to as organized crime in broad daylight.
Fake news.
The Constitution gives that power to Congress.....so yeah princess, it's in the Constitution.
You fail.
Try again.
WTF????
Are you trying to speak English here?
Look you blithering idiot, you've got this completely backward.
The "view" that you are speaking of here is not in fact held by "progressives" at all but is in fact called the Unitary Executive Theory and it's main proponents are staunchly conservative thinkers like two time Republican Attorney General Bill Barr.
In case you haven't noticed lately Trump has been rapidly trying to consolidate all power within the Executive Branch himself
Unitary Executive power.
Straight out of the Fascist playbook.
Has this escaped your notice?
The Barr Memo and the Imperial Presidency | ACS
www.acslaw.org
As it should be.
GHEEESH!
Enough of the whacko conspiracy theories!
"Control of pop culture........"
Have you ever really listened to yourself?
Do you mean censorship like cutting funding for things like Voice of America, NPR and other (partially) government funded sources of information?
Or maybe book banning in public schools?
Are you talking about the kind of cencorship your barely elected, convicted felon's sideshow freak administration is engaged in right now?
Like freedom, democracy, constitutional law, fairness, equity, Christ-like values?
Is this what you call "radical?
Again chica.....you've got it ALL backwards.
You should try to learn a little about things before you try to speak on them.
This head up your ass thing is really not a good look on you.
Again just more nattering, pseodo patriotic psychobabble.
Try to do better.
Why do you hate your country?
Look PoliticalChica, I know you are desperately struggling for relevancy here.....but please don't give up your day job dude.
Maybe a political expert and social media influencer is just not your calling.
A Charlie Kirk or Mark Levin you are not.
You see, you AT LEAST have to make your lies at partially believable pumpkin.
"Proud, well armed leftist, Democratic Socialist who is sick and tired of watching whiny, self-entitled Conservative sheeple influence the direction of my country by glorifying corporate greed and voting for policies against their own self-interest."
The majority of people involved with Wealth Creation are the Conservatives. Many are involved in LLCs, small corporations, self-employed so to speak in most cases. We are the ones who built this country and keep it alive. We vote for policies that promote values of Life, Liberty, & Prosperity.
YOU are a greedy, selfish, parasitic (Other People's)Wealth Redistributor who has no claim to this being "your" country since it's clear your don't contribute anything of value (and likely never did). You vote for policies that plunder from honest working people to satisfy, provide for your own personal greed. You sound like one of those stupid AntiFa scum.
- Banned
- #66
The sophisticates here can't be bothered with that. They think chic and chick are the same.
- Apr 11, 2023
- 45,803
- 22,089
- 2,488
That's not an answer. You admit of course that McCarthy hurt people. Thank you.
Mac1958
Diamond Member
Yep. But they don't want to talk about that.More voters, voted against him, than for him in 2024.....
There is no question Trump won the Presidency in 2024. It just irks me when it is implied that the majority of voters, voted in support of his chaos and he has some sort of superior (landslide) mandate, when the majority of voters DID NOT vote in support of this man or his madness.
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Mac1958
Diamond Member
It's when they try the "landslide" bullcrap that it's over the top.
Kondor3
Cafeteria Centrist
Incorrect.
Our "oldest enemy" is Unchecked Monarchy.
Just ask George Washington or John Adams or Thomas Jefferson or Patrick Henry or Benjamin Franklin et al.
It's why the Founding Fathers devised three co-equal branches of government and limits on Presidential power.
"A President is not a King" .
It's quite true that there is too much unelected power and too much bloat in modern Federal government, however...
Our oldest and most dangerous enemy is still Unchecked Monarchy.
--------------
"Well doctor, what have we got - a republic or a monarchy?" - Elizabeth Willing Powell, September 17, 1787, Independence Hall, Philadelphia, PA
"A republic, if you can keep it." - Benjamin Franklin, in response
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She is a female.
Your party has many Communists in it. You have no tolerance as we see. And when the time comes you will arrest millions and kill millions. It is the same everywhere it goes to.
- Banned
- #74
lol He even said he was a man in this thread.
- Apr 11, 2023
- 45,803
- 22,089
- 2,488
The voters wanted a better economy and to get away from Biden.
Trump was the only real alternative, and now he has made things worse, and they will get much worse.
Link? Copy and paste, pretty please.
- Banned
- #77
lol It's this thread, lazy adhd
- Banned
- #78
No one read that. Probably not even the OP.It wasn't a revolution princess. Trump's popular vote victory (1.5%) was one of the smallest ever.
Loadingā¦
thehill.com
You begin your OP with fake news revisionist history which pretty much casts doubt on whatever premise you may try to develop after that.
How is that?
By immediately doing everything he promised voters he would NOT do and by not doing anything he promised voters he would do?
How is that "returning power to the voters?"
This is pure conspiracy theory.
There is no real "deep state." That is only a fictional boogey-man created by the whacked-out, alcoholic, felon, Steve Bannon back in 2016 that found fertile ground in the dark roach infested crevices of online conspiracy sites like Q-Anon.
The "bureaucracy" is what keeps the government functioning....for YOU and everybody else.
I wouldn't trust the average American voter to take my goddamned garbage out, much less run the country. That's why we elect professionals who know what the hell they are doing in terms of policy, economics, diplomacy, international law, and so on.
Most American voters are REALLY fuckin' DUMB!
Half the people even on this message board don't even know what due process is or how constitutionally mandated checks and balances on the three branches of government are supposed to work.
You take that kind of abject stupidity and ignorance and then fan the flames of that ignorance with stupid conspiracy theories and PRESTO!
You get MAGAt voters.
Very eloquent and poetic imagery there princess.
Project much?
That is a stupid opinion. He was actually a Democrat.
Try again.
You have a habit of just making up alternative realities out of the ether and then posting them here in these long, rambling manifestos disguised as informed, political commentary.
It must be REALLY REALLY hard to live in your head with all the unicorns and trolls and other mythical beings vying for dominance.
Besides you MAGAts LOVE Fascists! Why, every month or so your favorite POTUS treats you to the spectacle of him sticking his tongue up the butt of yet another Fascist leader and you all jump up and down and cheer like rabid lemmings.
Fake News.
What they are doing within our government is typically referred to as organized crime in broad daylight.
Fake news.
The Constitution gives that power to Congress.....so yeah princess, it's in the Constitution.
You fail.
Try again.
WTF????
Are you trying to speak English here?
Look you blithering idiot, you've got this completely backward.
The "view" that you are speaking of here is not in fact held by "progressives" at all but is in fact called the Unitary Executive Theory and it's main proponents are staunchly conservative thinkers like two time Republican Attorney General Bill Barr.
In case you haven't noticed lately Trump has been rapidly trying to consolidate all power within the Executive Branch himself
Unitary Executive power.
Straight out of the Fascist playbook.
Has this escaped your notice?
The Barr Memo and the Imperial Presidency | ACS
As it should be.
GHEEESH!
Enough of the whacko conspiracy theories!
"Control of pop culture........"
Have you ever really listened to yourself?
Do you mean censorship like cutting funding for things like Voice of America, NPR and other (partially) government funded sources of information?
Or maybe book banning in public schools?
Are you talking about the kind of cencorship your barely elected, convicted felon's sideshow freak administration is engaged in right now?
Like freedom, democracy, constitutional law, fairness, equity, Christ-like values?
Is this what you call "radical?
Again chica.....you've got it ALL backwards.
You should try to learn a little about things before you try to speak on them.
This head up your ass thing is really not a good look on you.
Again just more nattering, pseodo patriotic psychobabble.
Try to do better.
Why do you hate your country?
Look PoliticalChica, I know you are desperately struggling for relevancy here.....but please don't give up your day job dude.
Maybe a political expert and social media influencer is just not your calling.
A Charlie Kirk or Mark Levin you are not.
You see, you AT LEAST have to make your lies at partially believable pumpkin.
I've been posting here on this site, since 2007 and political chic came on board shortly after me, if memory serves. I have jokingly questioned whether she was a bot or not, because in general.... she always seems to utilize cut and paste with her response, instead of just talking, by posting her own opinion or duking it out with another person in her own words.
But in all of those 15 plus years with her here, I have never seen an indication that she was a male "playing" a female, nor have I seen her ever say she was male.
YOU are the one who just claimed to me, that she admitted to being a male...and I asked you to show me, where in this thread, she did what YOU CLAIMED....to be a male....?
It would be a complete SHOCK to me, if this were true and a lesson for me to learn from, too.
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- Banned
- #80
You could have found the post in 1/50 of the time it took you to type that.
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