Torture and College Life

[Tech_Esq]

No they don't dumb ass. I'll bet that given enough time I could teach even your sorry ass to act like a man. It wouldn't be easy, but I've done it before.

Perhaps you could begin by acting like a man yourself, as opposed to a frightened barbarian.

Ms. Estrogen aka Pyrite (Fool's Gold - appropriate appellation I suspect -- utterly worthless)

Wanting to win at any cost is not being frightened. The sooner you learn that the sooner you might have a chance of making something of your apparently worthless self. Your idea of a barbarian is so dumbed down it's hardly worth discussing.

 

[Nik]

No they don't dumb ass. I'll bet that given enough time I could teach even your sorry ass to act like a man. It wouldn't be easy, but I've done it before.

Perhaps you could begin by acting like a man yourself, as opposed to a frightened barbarian.

Ms. Estrogen aka Pyrite (Fool's Gold - appropriate appellation I suspect -- utterly worthless)

Wanting to win at any cost is not being frightened. The sooner you learn that the sooner you might have a chance of making something of your apparently worthless self. Your idea of a barbarian is so dumbed down it's hardly worth discussing.

Thinking that we need to even think about winning at "any cost" when we are fighting a bunch of scattered individuals who are, honestly, pretty incompetent, yeah makes you a scared barbarian.

 

[MaggieMae]

Usually your arguments are deserving of more respect than this one, but this post is contemptable.

Drinking a lot of something is not waterboarding, being deprived of sleep for a week or more is not the same as your college all-nighters.

Not every technique on this list is a problem for most opponents of torture. To act as if they were is disengenuous. Waterboarding, sleep deprivation, stress positions, and "walling" are what most of us take issue with.

Just so that I can judge which is actually contemptible, girl-man, please provide a list of the terrorists who were treated with these techniques and subsequently died, were permanently maimed, and/or spent time in intensive care.

Which list? The frat boys or the Muslims? If the latter, we'll really never know. Do you really think anyone is about to give up that information? Why do you think videotapes of the tortures mysterially disappeared or were destroyed?

That said, what WOULD work against Muslim extremists are things that some sick so-called Americans seek out for thrills: Observing menstrual flow from a woman's naked genitals, beastiality, kiddie porn. And then there's the threat of sexual violence to a Muslim's family members, photoshopped pictures of Allah in compromising sexual positions or even profanity used to defame the prophet Mohammed. On the other hand, by sacrificing their own bodies to physical torture or even death will be rewarded in Heaven. Those beliefs are embedded genetically by followers of ancient Islam.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Yeah and theres already countries who think like you do. They are states like Burma, and North Korea. Great, lets model ourselves after them.

No they don't dumb ass. I'll bet that given enough time I could teach even your sorry ass to act like a man. It wouldn't be easy, but I've done it before.

Oh, and by the way...Dilawar wasn't a "battlefiend criminal" he was pulled out while doing the really outrageous act of...driving a taxi. Yeah...real manly, torturing to death individual civilians.

Don't care, head on a pike for him. Nobody knows what actual crimes any one individual commits. The point is to scare the utter fuck out of whomever sees the result. Didn't you learn anything from Vietnam?

The side that tried to win the "hearts and minds" of the people lost. It's a LOSING STRATEGY. The side that went into villages pulled the chieftain's daughters out of the hut and gang raped them then impaled the chief and his whole family in front of the village won.

You starting to get it yet?

 

[Nik]

No they don't dumb ass. I'll bet that given enough time I could teach even your sorry ass to act like a man. It wouldn't be easy, but I've done it before.

Oh, and by the way...Dilawar wasn't a "battlefiend criminal" he was pulled out while doing the really outrageous act of...driving a taxi. Yeah...real manly, torturing to death individual civilians.

Don't care, head on a pike for him. Nobody knows what actual crimes any one individual commits. The point is to scare the utter fuck out of whomever sees the result. Didn't you learn anything from Vietnam?

The side that tried to win the "hearts and minds" of the people lost. It's a LOSING STRATEGY. The side that went into villages pulled the chieftain's daughters out of the hut and gang raped them then impaled the chief and his whole family in front of the village won.

You starting to get it yet?

That you are ok with torturing and massacring innocent civilians? Yeah, I get that you are a fuckhead thats no different than those who committed 9/11. Go fuck yourself.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Perhaps you could begin by acting like a man yourself, as opposed to a frightened barbarian.

Ms. Estrogen aka Pyrite (Fool's Gold - appropriate appellation I suspect -- utterly worthless)

Wanting to win at any cost is not being frightened. The sooner you learn that the sooner you might have a chance of making something of your apparently worthless self. Your idea of a barbarian is so dumbed down it's hardly worth discussing.

Thinking that we need to even think about winning at "any cost" when we are fighting a bunch of scattered individuals who are, honestly, pretty incompetent, yeah makes you a scared barbarian.

Sounds to me like you lack the heart to win. Sounds to me like you just want to be told what to do by anyone. Sounds like you lack the balls to keep yourself free.

You should keep this quote in mind:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill

 

[Tech_Esq]

Oh, and by the way...Dilawar wasn't a "battlefiend criminal" he was pulled out while doing the really outrageous act of...driving a taxi. Yeah...real manly, torturing to death individual civilians.

Don't care, head on a pike for him. Nobody knows what actual crimes any one individual commits. The point is to scare the utter fuck out of whomever sees the result. Didn't you learn anything from Vietnam?

The side that tried to win the "hearts and minds" of the people lost. It's a LOSING STRATEGY. The side that went into villages pulled the chieftain's daughters out of the hut and gang raped them then impaled the chief and his whole family in front of the village won.

You starting to get it yet?

That you are ok with torturing and massacring innocent civilians? Yeah, I get that you are a fuckhead thats no different than those who committed 9/11. Go fuck yourself.

I'm thinking we can be much better at it than them. See if we are only "no better than them" we might lose. It is within the American spirit to be much harsher then our foe. It's not pretty and it's not easy, but it must be done!

And, I'll fuck you instead, you're much better pussy.

 

[MaggieMae]

Just so that I can judge which is actually contemptible, girl-man, please provide a list of the terrorists who were treated with these techniques and subsequently died, were permanently maimed, and/or spent time in intensive care.

Dilawar and Habibullah. Oh wait, they weren't terrorists tho, just Arabs who got swept up in the US dragnet.

The Armed Services Committee traced the murder of Dilawar and Habibullah’s to interrogation policies at Bagram that were first proposed by Pentagon officials in October 2001, just days after the U.S. launched an attack against the Taliban government.

Senate Panel's Report Links Detainees' Murders to Bush's Torture Policy

Still think its all fun and games, dipshit?

Now, now, girly-man, watch your language, after all you're not talking to your mom.

So you contend that the interrogation techniques listed in my college-prank post caused the deaths that you note?

Have someone more literate read the report that you link to you, since your hate of America is clouding what abiltiy at comprehension you might have, in a calmer state.

"Indeed, a report into detainee abuse completed in 2004 by Vice Admiral Albert T. Church, the former Naval inspector general, who conducted an investigation into detainee abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan at the request of then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, specifically cleared Pentagon officials stating they “did not promulgate interrogation policies . . . that directed, sanctioned or encouraged the torture or abuse of detainees."

A declassified version of the 360-page Church report, delivered to Congress in March 2004, said there was "no policy that condoned or authorized either abuse or torture," which critics of the Bush administration believed was a cover-up."
Senate Panel's Report Links Detainees' Murders to Bush's Torture Policy


The operative phrase: "did not promulgate interrogation policies . . . that directed, sanctioned or encouraged the torture or abuse of detainees."

Further, it is telling that 'news' of the deaths of prisoners resulting from the listed techniques appears in this 'pubreport,' or 'impeachbush,' or 'islamicblog,' but not splashed on the front pages of the oh so 'conservative' NYTimes, or the LATimes, or the Washington Post, or the Boston Globe, or even the WSJournal.

Does this not seem odd to you, Nikki, or have you not looked under each and every rock, yet?

I bet the girl scouts could come up with some more serious techniques, but then you'd claim that they were Bush-robot-fascists.

Nicht wahr?

Rumsfeld and Church. Now there's a combination worthy of oxymoronism.

I can almost guarantee you that if Rummy didn't like the results of the Church investigation, it never would have seen the light of day without heavy redaction.

 

[Nik]

Ms. Estrogen aka Pyrite (Fool's Gold - appropriate appellation I suspect -- utterly worthless)

Wanting to win at any cost is not being frightened. The sooner you learn that the sooner you might have a chance of making something of your apparently worthless self. Your idea of a barbarian is so dumbed down it's hardly worth discussing.

Thinking that we need to even think about winning at "any cost" when we are fighting a bunch of scattered individuals who are, honestly, pretty incompetent, yeah makes you a scared barbarian.

Sounds to me like you lack the heart to win. Sounds to me like you just want to be told what to do by anyone. Sounds like you lack the balls to keep yourself free.

You should keep this quote in mind:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill

No, I'm just not terrified by a ragtag group of pretty incompetent terrorists. Yeah, we aren't gonna be free....cause OBL is gonna come over to America and conquer us and enslave us all. Or, you know, not.

 

[MaggieMae]

Usually your arguments are deserving of more respect than this one, but this post is contemptable.

Drinking a lot of something is not waterboarding, being deprived of sleep for a week or more is not the same as your college all-nighters.

Not every technique on this list is a problem for most opponents of torture. To act as if they were is disengenuous. Waterboarding, sleep deprivation, stress positions, and "walling" are what most of us take issue with.

Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Go thru some military training and get back to me

The same training of our military can hardly be compared. They know they're not going to die.

 

[Nik]

Don't care, head on a pike for him. Nobody knows what actual crimes any one individual commits. The point is to scare the utter fuck out of whomever sees the result. Didn't you learn anything from Vietnam?

The side that tried to win the "hearts and minds" of the people lost. It's a LOSING STRATEGY. The side that went into villages pulled the chieftain's daughters out of the hut and gang raped them then impaled the chief and his whole family in front of the village won.

You starting to get it yet?

That you are ok with torturing and massacring innocent civilians? Yeah, I get that you are a fuckhead thats no different than those who committed 9/11. Go fuck yourself.

I'm thinking we can be much better at it than them. See if we are only "no better than them" we might lose. It is within the American spirit to be much harsher then our foe. It's not pretty and it's not easy, but it must be done!

And, I'll fuck you instead, you're much better pussy.

Wow, didn't know you were gay.

And wow...we are better at being complete fucks than they are. Go us! And after the US government has gotten really good at torture/detaining people and becomes a police state to "protect us", you think we'll be free then? You are incredibly naive.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Thinking that we need to even think about winning at "any cost" when we are fighting a bunch of scattered individuals who are, honestly, pretty incompetent, yeah makes you a scared barbarian.

Sounds to me like you lack the heart to win. Sounds to me like you just want to be told what to do by anyone. Sounds like you lack the balls to keep yourself free.

You should keep this quote in mind:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill

No, I'm just not terrified by a ragtag group of pretty incompetent terrorists. Yeah, we aren't gonna be free....cause OBL is gonna come over to America and conquer us and enslave us all. Or, you know, not.

You might be too stupid to reform. But I'm not a quitter. You mind taking a head count of how many muslims there are in the world? Now, most of them are not radicalized, but did you happen to notice just how quickly they became radicalized in Iraq, just cuz AQ settled into their area? No probably not, you were too busy shouting invectives at Bush. Grow up dumb shit, this is a big bad world and if you don't want to defend your country adequately, do not be shocked when you find out other people want it worse than you do.

You're problem is you are so fucking complacent you think your world can never change. You think the land of milk and honey is just here at your beck and call and you don't have to lift a finger to help. Your such a pansy ass that you don't even want your morals to get dirty let alone your hands. Fine, then, shut the fuck up, get in the corner and hide your face while the real men do the work. We'll tell you when you can look again.

 

[Tech_Esq]

That you are ok with torturing and massacring innocent civilians? Yeah, I get that you are a fuckhead thats no different than those who committed 9/11. Go fuck yourself.

I'm thinking we can be much better at it than them. See if we are only "no better than them" we might lose. It is within the American spirit to be much harsher then our foe. It's not pretty and it's not easy, but it must be done!

And, I'll fuck you instead, you're much better pussy.

Wow, didn't know you were gay.

And wow...we are better at being complete fucks than they are. Go us! And after the US government has gotten really good at torture/detaining people and becomes a police state to "protect us", you think we'll be free then? You are incredibly naive.

In order for me to be gay, you'd have to be a man. I see nothing that supports that contention.

Dumb ass, we don't do that in our country, we do it in their country. Damn you are just about as dumb as a box of rocks. But, I've trained dumb asses before. They are irritating as fuck but eventually they learn.

South Korea is not a police state, but when they sent the Tiger Brigade to Vietnam, the VC learned very quickly to get the fuck out of the way when they were in the area. Know why? The RoKs didn't care about winning their hearts and minds. They just fucked them up bad and continuously until they were dead. Look it up.

You might get through your head that we are in an existential conflict. During war, we act real fucked up, cuz you have to to, you know....WIN. Then we calm the fuck down and everyone makes nice after.....AFTER, not during, AFTER. Any chance any of this is getting into your skull full of mush yet?

 

[MaggieMae]

Anybody else just fucking fed up with all this hand-wringing about whether we are close to the line, on the line or two steps over the line?

Fuck it, we should just start piking heads. Much has been written about what kind of society we live in. I'd much rather be in the kind of society that takes its enemies seriously and gives back 10,000% more than it takes, than live in this kind of estrogen OD'd society. I never thought I'd see the day that people actual acted shocked that we annoyed battlefield criminals, illegal combatants under the Geneva convention, by shooting water up their nose. There's already a country for people who think like that, it's called France.

They like to behead people....ok, let's see which side can put more heads on sticks. Let the games begin!

Yeah and theres already countries who think like you do. They are states like Burma, and North Korea. Great, lets model ourselves after them.

No they don't dumb ass. I'll bet that given enough time I could teach even your sorry ass to act like a man. It wouldn't be easy, but I've done it before.

Good gawd, whatever did you military fringers do when we weren't at war with somebody? Must have driven you nuts. You don't need to be bloodying someone up or running around half-cocked (literally) in order to "be a man." Just ask any WOMAN!

 

[Nik]

Sounds to me like you lack the heart to win. Sounds to me like you just want to be told what to do by anyone. Sounds like you lack the balls to keep yourself free.

You should keep this quote in mind:

No, I'm just not terrified by a ragtag group of pretty incompetent terrorists. Yeah, we aren't gonna be free....cause OBL is gonna come over to America and conquer us and enslave us all. Or, you know, not.

You might be too stupid to reform. But I'm not a quitter. You mind taking a head count of how many muslims there are in the world? Now, most of them are not radicalized, but did you happen to notice just how quickly they became radicalized in Iraq, just cuz AQ settled into their area? No probably not, you were too busy shouting invectives at Bush. Grow up dumb shit, this is a big bad world and if you don't want to defend your country adequately, do not be shocked when you find out other people want it worse than you do.

You're problem is you are so fucking complacent you think your world can never change. You think the land of milk and honey is just here at your beck and call and you don't have to lift a finger to help. Your such a pansy ass that you don't even want your morals to get dirty let alone your hands. Fine, then, shut the fuck up, get in the corner and hide your face while the real men do the work. We'll tell you when you can look again.

They got radicalized because we invaded their country. That tends to piss people off, moron.

What a strange idea of a "real man". A mass murdering, torturing, fuckhead.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Winston Churchill famously said “We sleep soundly in our beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf."

Little did he suspect that we would, instead, become a nation of girly-men.

Oh, I think he suspected it. That's why he went to the trouble of mentioning this in the first place: he was hoping to head off that possibility. He failed.

 

[Nik]

I'm thinking we can be much better at it than them. See if we are only "no better than them" we might lose. It is within the American spirit to be much harsher then our foe. It's not pretty and it's not easy, but it must be done!

And, I'll fuck you instead, you're much better pussy.

Wow, didn't know you were gay.

And wow...we are better at being complete fucks than they are. Go us! And after the US government has gotten really good at torture/detaining people and becomes a police state to "protect us", you think we'll be free then? You are incredibly naive.

In order for me to be gay, you'd have to be a man. I see nothing that supports that contention.

Are you asking to see in my pants? My, but we've only known each other for a little while now. You are so forward.

Dumb ass, we don't do that in our country, we do it in their country. Damn you are just about as dumb as a box of rocks. But, I've trained dumb asses before. They are irritating as fuck but eventually they learn.

Wow, where did I say it mattered what country we did it in? Oh wait, I didn't. Its still the US government doing it, and by the way, GITMO is under US jurisidiction. Just don't come whining like the little bitch that you are when they decide to use "interrogation techniques" on you.

South Korea is not a police state, but when they sent the Tiger Brigade to Vietnam, the VC learned very quickly to get the fuck out of the way when they were in the area. Know why? The RoKs didn't care about winning their hearts and minds. They just fucked them up bad and continuously until they were dead. Look it up.

You might get through your head that we are in an existential conflict. During war, we act real fucked up, cuz you have to to, you know....WIN. Then we calm the fuck down and everyone makes nice after.....AFTER, not during, AFTER. Any chance any of this is getting into your skull full of mush yet?

Right...cause we might not win against AQ unless we torture. Umm, in what weird fantasy land do you live in that you really think AQ can beat us if we aren't mean enough? Hi, they are a ragtag militia, and we are the premiere fighting force in the world. Even though you are shitting your pants in abject terror, I'm pretty sure we'll be ok.

And since when was it manly to be so fucking scared of anything that moved that you are willing to do anything stop it?

 

[DiamondDave]

Usually your arguments are deserving of more respect than this one, but this post is contemptable.

Drinking a lot of something is not waterboarding, being deprived of sleep for a week or more is not the same as your college all-nighters.

Not every technique on this list is a problem for most opponents of torture. To act as if they were is disengenuous. Waterboarding, sleep deprivation, stress positions, and "walling" are what most of us take issue with.

Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Go thru some military training and get back to me

The same training of our military can hardly be compared. They know they're not going to die.

Same with the detainees.. the rules are known

 

[Nik]

Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Go thru some military training and get back to me

The same training of our military can hardly be compared. They know they're not going to die.

Same with the detainees.. the rules are known

No, actually they aren't. When they placed insects on the detainees, they were told they were poisonous.

Oh, and the fact that a bunch of detainees died. Although I'd be curious if you have some actual evidence that states that the detainees must know they will survive.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ms. Estrogen aka Pyrite (Fool's Gold - appropriate appellation I suspect -- utterly worthless)

Wanting to win at any cost is not being frightened. The sooner you learn that the sooner you might have a chance of making something of your apparently worthless self. Your idea of a barbarian is so dumbed down it's hardly worth discussing.

Thinking that we need to even think about winning at "any cost" when we are fighting a bunch of scattered individuals who are, honestly, pretty incompetent, yeah makes you a scared barbarian.

Sounds to me like you lack the heart to win. Sounds to me like you just want to be told what to do by anyone. Sounds like you lack the balls to keep yourself free.

You should keep this quote in mind:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. -- John Stuart Mill

Fighting the enemy on the battlefield is one thing. A warped desire to sustain a war just because you get a thrill from hurting and/or killing the enemy is quite another.

Even George Patton said "To win, you do not beat the enemy with weapons, you beat the soul of your enemy."